Reactions to Indiana Jones IV (Spoilers)

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-05-22 01:46pm

The ending was disappointing for me. Why did the alien kill the soviet doctor because of her poorly phrased request? That works for Tzeentch, it doesn't work for pseudo-benevolent aliens. Can't be because she's a stinking Red, the Mayans (despite being one of the best Mesoamerican groups, and discounting the technological difference) were substantially less sane than the Soviet Union. The only logical reason I can think of would be that she'd killed their people, but if that were the case, why not reward Indy et al? It 'said' it wanted to, after all.

How did the Conquistadors even steal the head in the first place?

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2008-05-22 04:00pm

NecronLord
NO SPOILERS DAMMIT! *whapwhapwhapwhap*

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-22 04:04pm

LadyTevar wrote:NecronLord
NO SPOILERS DAMMIT! *whapwhapwhapwhap*

Yeah, reading comprehension seems to have gone away in this thread.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-05-22 04:19pm

havokeff wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:NecronLord
NO SPOILERS DAMMIT! *whapwhapwhapwhap*
Yeah, reading comprehension seems to have gone away in this thread.

If you must know, I breezed through your posts the other day to avoid spoilers. Let that be a lesson to you, if you don't label a no-spoilers review thread as such clearly in the title, expect someone to miss it.

Fixed now, anyway. Sorry!

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-22 04:42pm

NecronLord wrote:
havokeff wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:NecronLord
NO SPOILERS DAMMIT! *whapwhapwhapwhap*
Yeah, reading comprehension seems to have gone away in this thread.
If you must know, I breezed through your posts the other day to avoid spoilers. Let that be a lesson to you, if you don't label a no-spoilers review thread as such clearly in the title, expect someone to miss it.

Fixed now, anyway. Sorry!

No worries.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-05-22 06:21pm

Awesome. More detail later, just got back, but it's nice to see all my doubts over the years from the mere idea of breaking the trilogy mould have been vanquished. It generally felt like the originals, especially with all the fun Easter eggs and dollops of new stuff from the effects to Williams slyly reusing his "Intersection Scene" cue from WOTW.

God, I love fun action adventures like this.

PS. It's quite obvious that there was too much information for any human to behold, hence the demise of our beloved commie villain and Oxley's insanity. It's a nice twist to have the aliens look like Greys, fly in a saucer, but have interdimensional capability rather than be from Mars or something. They're the Combine, only, uh, benevolent.

Oskuro · Post by **Oskuro** » 2008-05-22 08:19pm

Awesome, it does recapture the feel of the originals.

Of course, hardcore fans will critizise it for re-using the original formula.... just as they would have critiziced it had it deviated substantially.

Anyway, it had a bunch of great moments ("what are you going to charge me with.... appart from surviving a nuclear explosion?" or "wait! wait! *combs hair* Now I'm ready!"), and although it felt more of a comedy than the previous ones (even the villian is a bit bumbling and comical), it did not detract from the fun factor.

My main complain is that the plot is made way too obvious (from the very beginning with the Roswell crate), I would have liked to have a bit of a plot twist at the end, with the big reveal and all.

By the way, many have complained that the theme (aliens) does not fit with the series, but consider that Indiana Jones has dealt with myths and legends, and the "aliens visited ancient civilizations" theme is quite the legend, so it does fit.

One thing that I was thinking at the end of the movie, and that I still think would have made the movie even more awesome (as a final twist), would have been to have the flying saucer actually be the mothership from Encounters of the Third Kind......

By the way, I think that the Grey/s did that to the Russian Woman because they realized she was evil, at least the Grey seems to purposely stare into her eyes as a punishment (it looks pissed).

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-05-22 10:49pm

I loved the references to the 1950s and Indy's impressive war record. OSS Colonel Jones! More medals than you can think of! Nukes! Mustache-twirling Reds! I love it.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2008-05-22 11:39pm

That was a fun film.

Does this mean that the Holy Grail and the Ark of The Covenant are alien toys too?

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-05-23 03:27am

Poor Irina. She was hot. v__v

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2008-05-23 06:38am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Poor Irina. She was hot. v__v

I wanted Cate Blanchett's demise to be as grisly as that Gestapo agent having head melted from RotLA or General Veers rapidly aging into Christopher Lloyd, with her eyes subtly glowing to begin with but then black blood streams from her eyes, nose, scalp, ears, mouth and fingernails, she shrieks long and horribly, with her glowing eyes graphically melting away leaving two gory holes, melted brain goo pours from her mouth and then she collapses as a hollow shell; her surviving Spetznaz henchmen simply burn away like those grinning test dummies from that A-bomb test. That would warrent the 12A rating.

I don't understand why people bitch about the A-bomb test itself and the UFO taking off, when they were actually very well executed and innovative without being completely unbelievable or genuinely tacky (it was fitting that Indy lived through the firestorm of a Biblical superweapon and then through the firestorm of a modern superweapon. And I found it breathtaking to see a giant lost city in an deep basin get covered in millions of tons of rubble and millions of gallons of water in a single long take).

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-05-23 09:41am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:PS. It's quite obvious that there was too much information for any human to behold, hence the demise of our beloved commie villain

Yeah, I got that. The point is, if they're so smart (not to mention actually telepathic), surely they'd be able to tell the difference between the intention of a request, and its exact wording. Never mind the 'stop... too much.'

If, conversely, they're so Tzeentchian and alien that the word of a request means more than the spirit of it, why would they care about educating the Maya?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-05-23 09:54am

LordOskuro wrote:By the way, I think that the Grey/s did that to the Russian Woman because they realized she was evil, at least the Grey seems to purposely stare into her eyes as a punishment (it looks pissed).

Quite. Which is dodgy. There's nothing terrible the Soviets did that the Maya didn't do on a smaller scale (though again, they're not Aztecs). She's not actually cut any children's hearts out. Which leaves only three explanations to my mind.

It's actually a malevolent bastard, and dislikes communism because it doesn't have sufficient bloodshed superstition and offerings. I suppose this'd fit with the Ark of the Covenant and its evil god.
(My favourite) It found out in her mind that she'd massacred its people, and decided that 'reward' was no longer on the cards.
It's too alien or ignorant to comprehend human limitations, even though it set up a human society or two.

Whichever was the intention, its reaction there was far too ambiguous for my taste. Mysterious is one thing, acting on inexplicable motives, another.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-05-23 10:31am

I'm still not sure what the hell those alien thingies' plan was. They give the Indians agriculture, have them build a temple, evidently hang around a few thousand years picking up artefacts, sit around while the Spaniards decapitate one-thirteenth of their collective, sit around some more, send more saucers, sit around some more, let Oxley pick up the missing skull but don't tell him how to get into the city, wait for the last skull to come back, destroy their temple and go home.

Sorry, what? Are they just big fans of sitting around doing nothing?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2008-05-23 06:19pm

I just saw it and must say I really liked it. But I must admit that I think it could have been a lot better if they avoided this whole aliens-thing. It struck me as odd, somehow...

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2008-05-23 06:44pm

Bounty wrote:I'm still not sure what the hell those alien thingies' plan was. They give the Indians agriculture, have them build a temple, evidently hang around a few thousand years picking up artefacts, sit around while the Spaniards decapitate one-thirteenth of their collective, sit around some more, send more saucers, sit around some more, let Oxley pick up the missing skull but don't tell him how to get into the city, wait for the last skull to come back, destroy their temple and go home.

Sorry, what? Are they just big fans of sitting around doing nothing?

The artefact backstories featured in The Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade were not exactly water tight and pragmatic either: the Sankara stones did little else but glow (with some wacky 19th century cult claiming they could use these to rule the world, although they would be good for barbecues) and what was the point of the Holy Grail when it's effects were, for no real reason, limited inside a underground catacomb and nowhere else to detriment of it's holding place (the Grail cult subplot could be said to be tacked on to the general proceedings, but you can only fit so much into a two and a half hour movie)?

I just wonder if Crystal Skull mythos was overwritten or underwritten, and I'll just have to see it again with dad to properly get it, but bitching about aliens seem peculiar when the existance of aliens seems more probable than the existance of God (with the Ark of Covenant actually being the containment unit for Gelth style alien lifeforms that were inexplicably biased towards the Hebrews in the same way the Greys were biased towards the Incas).

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2008-05-23 08:24pm

I thought it was good. Definitely would rank it third among the movies, beating out Temple of Doom obviously.

Of course, losing to The Last Crusade and Raiders of the Lost Ark is not something to be ashamed of.

I will definitely credit LaBeouf for being the annoying brash kid without being really annoying about it.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-05-23 08:43pm

NecronLord wrote:Yeah, I got that. The point is, if they're so smart (not to mention actually telepathic), surely they'd be able to tell the difference between the intention of a request, and its exact wording. Never mind the 'stop... too much.'

On another board I heard an interesting interpretation of this scene: since knowledge is the aliens' treasure, Irina's request (give me EVERYTHING) was essentially a terribly greedy one, akin to saying "give me all the weapons in the world" or "give me all the gold."

Clearly the gray didn't like that.

Oskuro · Post by **Oskuro** » 2008-05-23 08:54pm

NecronLord wrote:
<snip>

Whichever was the intention, its reaction there was far too ambiguous for my taste. Mysterious is one thing, acting on inexplicable motives, another.

Or, maybe the Grey read into her mind and found about her plans to use the crystal skulls to indoctrinate the whole human race, and it wasn't too keen on that.

I personally would have preferred a bit of a replay of the ending of the Last Crusade, with the Grey showing simpathy towards Indy (like the Knight) because he actually "gets it" (wich he does).

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-05-23 10:10pm

NecronLord wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:PS. It's quite obvious that there was too much information for any human to behold, hence the demise of our beloved commie villain
Yeah, I got that. The point is, if they're so smart (not to mention actually telepathic), surely they'd be able to tell the difference between the intention of a request, and its exact wording. Never mind the 'stop... too much.'

If, conversely, they're so Tzeentchian and alien that the word of a request means more than the spirit of it, why would they care about educating the Maya?

Apparently the Indians only asked for simple things like farming and medicine. Spalko wanted it all -and got it.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-05-23 10:21pm

phongn wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Yeah, I got that. The point is, if they're so smart (not to mention actually telepathic), surely they'd be able to tell the difference between the intention of a request, and its exact wording. Never mind the 'stop... too much.'
On another board I heard an interesting interpretation of this scene: since knowledge is the aliens' treasure, Irina's request (give me EVERYTHING) was essentially a terribly greedy one, akin to saying "give me all the weapons in the world" or "give me all the gold."

Clearly the gray didn't like that.

Remember, Indy told Spalko:

"Be careful what you wish for; you just just might get it."

And Spalko replied: "I usually do."

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2008-05-23 11:45pm

I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who enjoyed it. I was grinning madly through much of the movie. There were some clunky parts, and Indiana Jones seems a bit stiffer - but that seems reasonable given his advancing age.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-24 02:45am

FINALLY!!
A+! Awesome! I loved it!

But seriously.... What. The. FUCK. ANTS!!!! I HATE ANTS! Blagh!!!
Fuck whoever dreamed up that scene right in their fucking asses!!

So, I thought the transition in dynamic of dad and son from 3 to 4 was done excellently. In 3, Indy is the impatient one and HJS is the calming presence. The switch in 4, with Indy becoming the fatherly calming presence was done very smoothly.

Oh boy. Is she sure that Mutt is Indy's kid and not Tarzan's?

Nuclear Explosion Survival Kit.... Refrigerator. CHECK!

I like what they did with the aliens. I just think they were revealed a little too soon in the movie for me... you know... almost the opening scene.

OH! That damned motorcycle was a Twin Cam!! An engine that didn't exist until 1999!! They did do a good job off adding lots of crap to it and hiding it enough to make it look like a panhead or a knuckle, whichever they say it is SUPPOSED to be.

Great fun though! Harrison was tits and I think Shia LaBouef was great and could be a worthy successor to the Indy franchise. Although Mutt Jones and the Newest Big Adventure... yeah, may have to work on that.

Will be seeing it again on Monday night.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2008-05-24 04:14am

I think one of my favorite scenes was the quicksand with the snake as a rope.

"Just tell me to grab the rope!"

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-05-24 04:22am

Hav, you simpleton, just because it's Indiana Jones doesn't automatically make it good.

This movie blew. It was silly, characters were shallow, the plot was vague, and definitely not worthy of the Indy franchise. Anyone notice how the musical score never once rose to the situation at hand like it does in the previous movies... or even the ride at Disneyland? There were some decent parts, but this movie isn't even in the same ballpark as the previous three.