Order of the Stick vs Fellowship of the Ring

[NecronLord]

Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 1 target creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Special
Spell Resistance: No

This spell conjures a mass of rubbery spiked tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfoot—including water. They grasp and entwine around the creature, holding it fast and forcibly entering any orifice with great strength.

The target creature must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage.

Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of piercing damage. The tentacles continue to violate the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes.

In addition, the target of the spell must succeed at a Will saving throw check or be panicked for the duration of the spell.

Any creature with an intelligence score that witnesses spiked tentacles of forced intrusion actually succeed at doing damage to a target for the first time must make a successful Fortitude check or become nauseated for 1d6 rounds. The caster, and anyone who has witnessed the spell do damage to a target at least once before, is immune to this effect.

Material Components
A piece of tentacle from a giant octopus or a giant squid and the musk gland of a porcupine.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Then V couldnt cast it, as it is a conjuration spell. It would have to be evocation.

[Alyrium Denryle]

In any case... I cant think of a way Gandalf could deal with that spell... The only way he will be saved is if V cant finish casting it before Gandalf reaches him one way or the other. And (as will be gone over in a post I am working on) Gandalf may not be able to do that.

[Imperial Overlord]

In any case... I cant think of a way Gandalf could deal with that spell... The only way he will be saved is if V cant finish casting it before Gandalf reaches him one way or the other. And (as will be gone over in a post I am working on) Gandalf may not be able to do that.

Legandary sword. Counter spelling. Dispelling. Tolkien derived immunity from actual sex acts occurring around him.

Next.

[Alyrium Denryle]

The tentacles cant be harmed in any way, we dont know if counterspelling would work... we dont know if dispelling would work while he is being... anally violated by spikes.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Something I have noticed. OoTS is a D&D spoof. But that does not make them hidebound to D&D Mechanics. It certainly helps (EX. V can survive being beaten by animated trees, the rest of V's friends can survive multiple stab wounds and still be functional, etc) But on the same token, in cannon terms it does not take any character in OoTS 3 seconds to cast a spell. It takes them as long as it takes to speak the name of the spell. So V can get off a disintegrate in as little time as it takes him to point and say the word "disintegrate" (When one of Xykon's decoys was charging him and it was suggested that he disintegrate the non-resistant mount he said Oh! Disintegrate!" before the charging undead reached him) Same with Durkon's use of Cure Critical Woundsm(the fact that sometimes other D&D rules are inconvenient, such as needing 7 pages for a power word blind even though the spell is one word long is not withstanding.)

The cannon abilities of the LoTR characters are somewhat different. The same rules do not apply. Even though for example, Aragorn may be more skilled with a sword than Roy(which is itself debateable), Roy can take a crapload more punishment than Aragorn can. He can literally be stabbed a dozen times, and still fight. Aragorn can only afford the one stabbing. This may seem ridiculous. But, just like the idea of traveling faster than the speed of light is ridiculous, and the very concept of "magic" and "the force" are laughable, they are still cannon and we have to suspend disbelief when it comes to their application.

By your (the collective your) seeming consensus. Gandalf and the other LoTR characters are bound to the fact that they are actually human beings (or humanoid beings) who are just as frail as the rest of us. So, let's go through the list again and see how taking all of this stuff into account could change the outcome.

1) Roy Greenhilt vs Aragorn on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.

Even if Aragorn is a better swordsman, something which is still debateable, he is more heavily armored than Aragorn typically is. Which gives him some protection. Additionally, he can take many many more stab wounds than Aragorn can and still fight. This could very easily turn the battle in favor of

2) Vaarsuvius vs Gandalf on a completely flat plain, they start out 20 feet from each other.

Ok. Now, we need to benchmark V's power. During the battle for Azure City, V cast as a prelude to battle, a Mass Bear's Endurance, and a Mass Bull's Strength. He also cast 2 disintegrates during the battle. This means one of three things. He is either the equivalent to a 17th level wizard. Or he is a 13th level wizard with over 30 intelligence. Alternatively, he could have a second ring of wizardry but that is unlikely. He is also expressely an evoker so one of the spells he cast in the fight for Azure city was probably chain lightning.

Now. Because of the number of people he was able to cast those buffs on, he has to be a 13th level evoker with 30 intelligence, otherwise he would have put 17 men in the breach.

So, what does this tell us. First thing is first, it tells us V is insanely intelligent. The second thing it tells us is that his spells are very hard to resist. IIRC in the comic, it is rare for something to actually make a save against V. So this is consistent. The only thing that bothers him is spell resistance. WHich Gandalf does not have (unless you have evidence to the contrary that he can shrug off magical attacks without having to actively counterspell them)

Now, as for counterspelling, what mechanism does Gandalf use to counterspell? Because it may or may not be one that works against V's spells. I take it that it is a sort of magical contest of wills?

Honestly I think the whole thing with the Balrog is a red herring. Different design philosphies with the different character attributes determine what they can and cannot handle. Gandalf can draw out a battle over a few days yes, but in all honesty that says little about his per-unit-time power. In other words, it doesnt say whether or not he wold be able to deal with V's alpha strike.

I think Gandalf's power is too nebulous and poorly defined to evaluate the question.

3) Durkon vs Gimli on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.

Durkon wins. ands down. No contest. He is a skilled, heavily armored and shielded combatant, who, as mentioned previously in this post can handle obscene amounts of punishment. And he can heal himself by saying the words "cure critical wounds" And bring down the wrath of a deity, and with the words "enlarge person" turn himself into a 15 foot tall spellcasting deathtank.

4) Haley Starshine vs Legolas in a thick forest, they start out 1 mile from each other (but do have knowledge that the other is in there and that they must fight).

Not sure. Legolas may be more skilled, but Haley has the aforementioned insane durability. legolas can only afford to get a couple arrows in his chest at most... Haley can stand a few more than that.

5) Elan vs Boromir on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.

Not sure. Both have demonstrated frightening durability, but I have to give that edge to Elan. Boromir may be weak willed against illusions, but he is also probably a better swordsman than Elan (even with the puns and dashingness)

6) Belkar vs all four hobbits on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.

Poor hobbits

[Imperial Overlord]

The tentacles cant be harmed in any way, we dont know if counterspelling would work... we dont know if dispelling would work while he is being... anally violated by spikes.

Counter spelling shows up in both universes, so yes it would work. Gandalf the grey. And defensive spells, which he's faster with than Legolas's arrows and Aragorn with a sword.

No proof the tentacles are invulnerable or immune to legendary elvish swords. The spell version Necronlord posted was pure speculation.

Next.

[Imperial Overlord]

Elan's a shitty illusionist. He can't even fool hobgoblins without help from V. No proof to any claims that Boromir is weak willed or easily fooled by illusions.

Elan dies.

[Ar-Adunakhor]

Unless I am misremembering my rules, "hitpoints" don't mean "can survive hundreds of wounds" but rather represent close calls, flesh wounds, and the ever-popular character shields as well as actual health. Rocks can still fall and you can still die, as the old GM standby goes. No sane GM says, "Yeah, you were just stabbed in the heart while sleeping, but it was a dagger so you only took 1d4 crit damage and you have 300 hp so you don't even wake up."

[Imperial Overlord]

Unless I am misremembering my rules, "hitpoints" don't mean "can survive hundreds of wounds" but rather represent close calls, flesh wounds, and the ever-popular character shields as well as actual health. Rocks can still fall and you can still die, as the old GM standby goes. No sane GM says, "Yeah, you were just stabbed in the heart while sleeping, but it was a dagger so you only took 1d4 crit damage and you have 300 hp so you don't even wake up."

Well, is OOTS they really represent punishment. They joke about that.

And stabbed in the heart while sleeping would be coup de grace, which does buckets of damage and requires a Fortitude save to survive. Picture Belkar stabbing someone and saying "Coup de grace beeotch!"

Talking about D&D mechanics as if they were real is weird.

[Ar-Adunakhor]

Unless I am misremembering my rules, "hitpoints" don't mean "can survive hundreds of wounds" but rather represent close calls, flesh wounds, and the ever-popular character shields as well as actual health. Rocks can still fall and you can still die, as the old GM standby goes. No sane GM says, "Yeah, you were just stabbed in the heart while sleeping, but it was a dagger so you only took 1d4 crit damage and you have 300 hp so you don't even wake up."

Well, is OOTS they really represent punishment. They joke about that.

And stabbed in the heart while sleeping would be coup de grace, which does buckets of damage and requires a Fortitude save to survive. Picture Belkar stabbing someone and saying "Coup de grace beeotch!"

Talking about D&D mechanics as if they were real is weird.

I know, that particular example was more of an exaggeration for effect. I did not, however, know that the OOTS characters actually used it for life.

[Imperial Overlord]

They do. There's all sorts of jokes about ridiculousness of game mechanics and the game world, PCs enjoying a privileged status over NPCs, and Xykon knows and exploits the cliches and genre standard behavior of an evil overlord. People who are "hit" by arrows but still alive don't have grazes or near misses but actual arrows sticking out of their chests.

[NecronLord]

You're probably thinking of this variant where that's made explicit. Some people take the hit points system to represent the same thing, but I've seen plenty of interpretations with "No, D&D characters just become godlike after third level."

Also, Vaarsuvius is Int 18 here...

[Alyrium Denryle]

You're probably thinking of this variant where that's made explicit. Some people take the hit points system to represent the same thing, but I've seen plenty of interpretations with "No, D&D characters just become godlike after third level."

Also, Vaarsuvius is Int 18 here...

That was A) a while ago. B) inconsistent with what we know of his spellcasting ability. In the thread linked to, the general consensus was that 18 was his unmodified "starting" intelligence.

[Sidewinder]

Regarding Durkon versus Gimli: I just remembered that Durkon doesn't wear a helmet, while Gimli is tall enough to attack Durkon's head. Durkon won't be calling upon the power of Thor if he has an ax buried in his head.

[NecronLord]

It's taking quite a while for me to actually read up to that seige (Damn you Nale!) but does V actually use any 7th level spells there. Otherwise he can manage to do four 6th Level spells per day quite happily at 14th level by simply using a 7th level slot in some way.

EDIT: I'm off for the night. So you guys are playing multiplayer notepad. this is the strip I'm up to.

[Imperial Overlord]

It's taking quite a while for me to actually read up to that seige (Damn you Nale!) but does V actually use any 7th level spells there. Otherwise he can manage to do four 6th Level spells per day quite happily at 14th level by simply using a 7th level slot in some way.

His ability to affect 13 and only 13 people with his mass buffing spells strongly suggests he's 13th level. It is also consistent with the spells he uses.

That would give him access to 7th level spells, but only a few depending on specialization and stats.

[Alyrium Denryle]

It's taking quite a while for me to actually read up to that seige (Damn you Nale!) but does V actually use any 7th level spells there. Otherwise he can manage to do four 6th Level spells per day quite happily at 14th level by simply using a 7th level slot in some way.

His ability to affect 13 and only 13 people with his mass buffing spells strongly suggests he's 13th level. It is also consistent with the spells he uses.

That would give him access to 7th level spells, but only a few depending on specialization and stats.

Indeed. But parsimony being what it is.... the only way he could do that is have sufficient intelligence to have at least 1 bonus 6th level spell (which isnt hard) and then for some reason use it, AND a 7th level un-heightened slot for a 6th level spell outside of his specialization... which is just odd.

[Szass Tam]

Not really, when you're buffing an army and all the good "Mass x" spells are 6th level. Using 1 in your 7th level slot makes a lot of sense under those circumstances.

He also could have prepared Limited Wish to duplicate a 6th level spell.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Not really, when you're buffing an army and all the good "Mass x" spells are 6th level. Using 1 in your 7th level slot makes a lot of sense under those circumstances.

He also could have prepared Limited Wish to duplicate a 6th level spell.

He would have bitched about the XP cost... And he would have said "Limited Wish" followed by "I wish to duplicate a mass x spell"

Also, he is an evoker, with a pre-occupation with raw destruction.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

By your (the collective your) seeming consensus. Gandalf and the other LoTR characters are bound to the fact that they are actually human beings (or humanoid beings) who are just as frail as the rest of us.

But Gandalf most assuredly is NOT human. As already mentioned, he is Maiar. Yes, he is limited by his human form, but we don't have enough information to conclude how much.

In any case... I cant think of a way Gandalf could deal with that spell... The only way he will be saved is if V cant finish casting it before Gandalf reaches him one way or the other. And (as will be gone over in a post I am working on) Gandalf may not be able to do that.

Legandary sword. Counter spelling. Dispelling. Tolkien derived immunity from actual sex acts occurring around him.

Next.

You forgot to mention Nenya, one of the Elven Three. Cirdan gave it to him when he first arrived in Middle Earth. It may well be this ring that gave him the edge against the Balrog (which was also once Maiar).

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Ghetto edit: Gandalf's ring of power was Narya, not Nenya. Nenya was kept by Galadriel.

[Gil Hamilton]

Incidently

1) Roy Greenhilt vs Aragorn on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.

I'm not sure I follow peoples logic on this one that Roy wins because of his heavy armor. Aragorn has fought and killed things heavily armored too. In fact, in Moria, he killed that Uruk-Hai chieftain with a shot to the head that split the orcs skull through his iron helmet. It could be that the Uruk had a poorly made helmet, but the description of the even makes it sound like Aragorn really clobbered him with Andúril. Besides, he wouldn't be much of a sword fighter if he didn't know about how armor lays and where the gaps necessarily are.

Frankly, I don't see how Roy can overcome Aragorn's greater experience and clearly legendary weapon. I suppose any fighter on any given day, but Aragorn seems too tough.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

I'm not sure I follow peoples logic on this one that Roy wins because of his heavy armor. Aragorn has fought and killed things heavily armored too. In fact, in Moria, he killed that Uruk-Hai chieftain with a shot to the head that split the orcs skull through his iron helmet. It could be that the Uruk had a poorly made helmet, but the description of the even makes it sound like Aragorn really clobbered him with Andúril. Besides, he wouldn't be much of a sword fighter if he didn't know about how armor lays and where the gaps necessarily are.

Two things:

1. It is unlikely that the orc chieftan (was it actually Uruk-Hai?) had a poorly made helmet. The orcs are consistantly portrayed as very competent smiths. They don't make things pretty, but they make them very well.

2. The movie has Narsil reforged as Andúril before the Fellowship leaves Rivendell. It's been many years since I've read the book, but for some reason I'm recalling that Aragorn didn't have the reforged Andúril until the rangers brought it to him in Rohan. Can someone who has read it more recently confirm? If so, then Aragorn split that helmet and head without his enchanted sword.

[Gil Hamilton]

Two things:

1. It is unlikely that the orc chieftan (was it actually Uruk-Hai?) had a poorly made helmet. The orcs are consistantly portrayed as very competent smiths. They don't make things pretty, but they make them very well.

It was an Uruk-Hai. He was the one who shield bashed Boromir and then slammed Frodo to a wall with a giant spear.

2. The movie has Narsil reforged as Andúril before the Fellowship leaves Rivendell. It's been many years since I've read the book, but for some reason I'm recalling that Aragorn didn't have the reforged Andúril until the rangers brought it to him in Rohan. Can someone who has read it more recently confirm? If so, then Aragorn split that helmet and head without his enchanted sword.

Other way around. In the book, the shards of Narsil were forged into Andúril before the Fellowship left Rivendell, whereas in the movie, Elrond delivers it to him before he heads up the Path of the Dead. He definitely had it in Moria, since it's mentioned directly in the description of him killing the Uruk-Hai chieftain. And damn me for leaving my copy of Lord of the Rings at home when I left for college.

The thing that makes me uneasy about this fight is:

(1) Neither of them would likely attempt to kill the other. Fighting to make the other guy yield is alot more complicated than fighting to merely kill the other guy.

(2) "Any given fighter on any given day". Both are skilled fighters, though I think that Aragorn is probably more skilled, but Roy isn't a lightweight. It's not easy to say, in such cases, that one fighter is completely dominant of the other so that one is guaranteed to make the other yield. Fighting isn't a numbers game, after all. Even when one side is clearly dominant, it's not so obvious.

For example, say we have a confrontation.

One side is a several thousand year old unliving phantom, which radiates terror and madness that can cause even the stoutest hearted men to cower in fear before it. It has literally killed thousands of warriors on dozens of battlefields, is reasonably well protected in ancient (which in this case means super good) armor, and duel wields a giant mace and an unholy sword that will eventually kill anyone who is even wounded by it unless they recieve treatment from a skilled healer. It is riding on a giant ancient winged horror that can snap men in half with a bite of its slavering maw.

The other side consists of two fighters. One is a young woman who, while she grew up learning how to use a sword by her father who is a reasonable swordsman, has never been in a battle before. She has a sword and wooden shield, and chainmail armor, probably with an iron helm. With her is a halfling of larger than usual size who never learned to use a sword growing up, but has been in fights before. He has similar armor to the woman, but has an ancient dagger that will do much more damage to the shade in question due to an ancient vendetta between the people who forged the dagger and the monster in question. However, both had been riding for the last few days and were in the middle of a battle when the shade showed up, and thus are pretty exhausted. The shade, on the other hand, isn't, since by defintion, ancient undead spirits don't get tired.

The woman confronts the spirit on his monsterous steed after the shade smote her father. The undead spirit doesn't see the halfling.

Who wins, based on the facts presented?