Order of the Stick vs Fellowship of the Ring

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

User avatar
Soldier of Entropy
Padawan Learner
Posts: 184
Joined: 2006-12-28 08:15am
Location: Boston

Order of the Stick vs Fellowship of the Ring

Postby Soldier of Entropy » 2007-08-24 03:37pm

The Order of the Stick faces off against the fellowship in a series of 1 on 1 battles to decide which one gets their quest magically finished for them. The location will vary in each fight. The Order is as they were at the beginning of the battle of Azure City (the current arc) and the Fellowship is as it was immediately after leaving Lothlorien (except Gandalf, who is Gandalf the White).
1) Roy Greenhilt vs Aragorn on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.
2) Vaarsuvius vs Gandalf on a completely flat plain, they start out 20 feet from each other.
3) Durkon vs Gimli on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.
4) Haley Starshine vs Legolas in a thick forest, they start out 1 mile from each other (but do have knowledge that the other is in there and that they must fight).
5) Elan vs Boromir on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.
6) Belkar vs all four hobbits on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.
And a couple extras...
7) Hinjo vs Faramir on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.
8) Xykon vs Saruman, they start out on a completely flat plain 20 feet from each other.
Most of the class/level/etc. information on the characters can be found in this thread in the forums for the site, including links to the comic and proofs, but you can get to the entire comic from the first link.
Economic Left/Right: -5.25; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.90

User avatar
Oni Koneko Damien
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3852
Joined: 2004-03-10 07:23pm
Location: Yar Yar Hump Hump!
Contact:

Re: Order of the Stick vs Fellowship of the Ring

Postby Oni Koneko Damien » 2007-08-24 03:51pm

Soldier of Entropy wrote:The Order of the Stick faces off against the fellowship in a series of 1 on 1 battles to decide which one gets their quest magically finished for them. The location will vary in each fight. The Order is as they were at the beginning of the battle of Azure City (the current arc) and the Fellowship is as it was immediately after leaving Lothlorien (except Gandalf, who is Gandalf the White).
1) Roy Greenhilt vs Aragorn on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.
2) Vaarsuvius vs Gandalf on a completely flat plain, they start out 20 feet from each other.
3) Durkon vs Gimli on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.
4) Haley Starshine vs Legolas in a thick forest, they start out 1 mile from each other (but do have knowledge that the other is in there and that they must fight).
5) Elan vs Boromir on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.
6) Belkar vs all four hobbits on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.
And a couple extras...
7) Hinjo vs Faramir on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.
8) Xykon vs Saruman, they start out on a completely flat plain 20 feet from each other.
Most of the class/level/etc. information on the characters can be found in this thread in the forums for the site, including links to the comic and proofs, but you can get to the entire comic from the first link.


Vaarsuvious wipes the floor with Gandalf. DnD magic (which OoTS is based off of) is leagues more powerful than Tolkien-verse magic. And Vaarsuvious has shown herself able to use Finger of Death twice in the space of a minute, indicating she's pretty high level.

Belkar, likewise, pwns the hobbits. A decently leveled, insanely aggressive, sociopathic, halfling rogue who has no qualms about lying, cheating, stabbing in the back, and giving an agonizing death to his opponents just for a small gob of experience.
Gaian Paradigm: Because not all fantasy has to be childish crap.
Ephemeral Pie: Because not all role-playing has to be shallow.
My art: Because not all DA users are talentless emo twits.
"Phant, quit abusing the He-Wench before he turns you into a caged bitch at a Ren Fair and lets the tourists toss half munched turkey legs at your backside." -Mr. Coffee

User avatar
Soldier of Entropy
Padawan Learner
Posts: 184
Joined: 2006-12-28 08:15am
Location: Boston

Re: Order of the Stick vs Fellowship of the Ring

Postby Soldier of Entropy » 2007-08-24 03:57pm

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Belkar, likewise, pwns the hobbits. A decently leveled, insanely aggressive, sociopathic, halfling rogue who has no qualms about lying, cheating, stabbing in the back, and giving an agonizing death to his opponents just for a small gob of experience.

That's why I put him up agianst all four; I thought that maybe, just maybe, they might stand a chance. Also, a minor nitpick, Belkar's a ranger(/barbarian), not a rouge.
Economic Left/Right: -5.25; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.90

User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 18443
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm
Location: Tahalshia Manor

Postby LadyTevar » 2007-08-24 04:01pm

And Vaarsuvious has shown herself able to use Finger of Death twice in the space of a minute, indicating she's pretty high level.

Isn't Vaarsuvious a GUY?
Image

Librium Arcana, Where Gamers Play!
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet

User avatar
Oni Koneko Damien
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3852
Joined: 2004-03-10 07:23pm
Location: Yar Yar Hump Hump!
Contact:

Postby Oni Koneko Damien » 2007-08-24 04:05pm

LadyTevar wrote:
And Vaarsuvious has shown herself able to use Finger of Death twice in the space of a minute, indicating she's pretty high level.

Isn't Vaarsuvious a GUY?


My lack of knowledge regarding OoTS is showing then. Who was the female mage?
Gaian Paradigm: Because not all fantasy has to be childish crap.
Ephemeral Pie: Because not all role-playing has to be shallow.
My art: Because not all DA users are talentless emo twits.
"Phant, quit abusing the He-Wench before he turns you into a caged bitch at a Ren Fair and lets the tourists toss half munched turkey legs at your backside." -Mr. Coffee

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11674
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2007-08-24 04:06pm

1) Favors Aragorn, could go either way.

2) Gandalf can fight a balrog for three days straight and win by casting it down and breaking the side of a mountain. He doesn't use high powered magic for most of the books because thats not his purpose and Sauron and the Nazgul would be able to find him if he did. Gandalf takes it.

3)Durkon's magic gives him the win.

4)Legolas is damn old and grew up in Mirkwood. Forest favors him and he's a better shot. Legolas.

5) Elan has become a better fighter of late, but that just means that Boromir doesn't punk him. Boromir wins.

6) Belkar is a sexy, barefooted, god of war. He wins.

7) If Hinjo gets his uber wolf stead he wins. Otherwise toss up.

8) Saruman the White would win, having greater power than Gandalf the Grey, balrog breaker.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Deathstalker
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1508
Joined: 2004-01-20 02:22am
Contact:

Postby Deathstalker » 2007-08-24 04:22pm

I can't argue with Imp Overlord's list.

And for the record, Vaarsuvious is intentionally left ambiguous about his/her gender.
Image

User avatar
Soldier of Entropy
Padawan Learner
Posts: 184
Joined: 2006-12-28 08:15am
Location: Boston

Postby Soldier of Entropy » 2007-08-24 04:29pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:7) If Hinjo gets his uber wolf stead he wins. Otherwise toss up.

No uber wolf stead for you. 1 on 1 does not mean 1 (and steed) on 1.
Economic Left/Right: -5.25; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.90

User avatar
Ted C
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4487
Joined: 2002-07-07 11:00am
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Re: Order of the Stick vs Fellowship of the Ring

Postby Ted C » 2007-08-24 05:28pm

Soldier of Entropy wrote:1) Roy Greenhilt vs Aragorn on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


Difficult to predict. Both are very good at hacking things up.

Soldier of Entropy wrote:2) Vaarsuvius vs Gandalf on a completely flat plain, they start out 20 feet from each other.


This might depend on who gets initiative. Gandalf's spell repertoire doesn't seem to be a match for V's, but at this range Gandalf could just charge and turn it from a spellfight into a sword fight.

Soldier of Entropy wrote:3) Durkon vs Gimli on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


I'll vote in favor of healing spells and Thor's Might.

Soldier of Entropy wrote:4) Haley Starshine vs Legolas in a thick forest, they start out 1 mile from each other (but do have knowledge that the other is in there and that they must fight).


Is this movie Legolas or book Legolas. Book Legolas was good, but movie Legolas is Marty Sue with every archery feat in the game and an insane Dex score.

Soldier of Entropy wrote:5) Elan vs Boromir on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


I figure Elan will fare worse against Boromir than against Thog, so this is an easy win for Boromir.

Soldier of Entropy wrote:6) Belkar vs all four hobbits on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.


"In your face Elijah Woods! Who da halfing? I'm da halfling!"
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion... Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776

"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"

User avatar
Ted C
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4487
Joined: 2002-07-07 11:00am
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Postby Ted C » 2007-08-24 05:29pm

LadyTevar wrote:
And Vaarsuvious has shown herself able to use Finger of Death twice in the space of a minute, indicating she's pretty high level.

Isn't Vaarsuvious a GUY?


Vaarsuvius is "ambiguously gendered". It's a running gag.
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion... Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776

"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11674
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2007-08-24 06:27pm

Soldier of Entropy wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:7) If Hinjo gets his uber wolf stead he wins. Otherwise toss up.

No uber wolf stead for you. 1 on 1 does not mean 1 (and steed) on 1.


Summoning the uber wolf is a paladin class ability. That's why I asked.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 21510
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Postby Alyrium Denryle » 2007-08-24 06:45pm

Ted C wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:
And Vaarsuvious has shown herself able to use Finger of Death twice in the space of a minute, indicating she's pretty high level.

Isn't Vaarsuvious a GUY?


Vaarsuvius is "ambiguously gendered". It's a running gag.


Indeed. Masculine and feminine pronouns are used interchangeably, and even though V is married, the sex of V's partner is not known.

1) Roy Greenhilt vs Aragorn on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


Roy is typically more heavily armored. I would say based upon that, that the fight would favor him, but could go either way.

2) Vaarsuvius vs Gandalf on a completely flat plain, they start out 20 feet from each other.


Gandalf may have battled a balrog for 3 days, but a D&D wizard could probably have taken it out faster. Based upon his observed abilities I will say that V wins if he gets a spell off. Evans Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion. Also, his ability to cast finger of death twice in one day means one of two things. His intelligence is at least 22 (thus giving him an extra 7th level spell slot) or he is at least level 14-15. If he prepped nothing but those two spells, and his obligatory Evocation at that spell level. Unless we have details on how Gandalf beat that Balrog...

3) Durkon vs Gimli on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


Clerical magics win it. Durkon can heal himself and bring down the wrath of Thor. He wins

4) Haley Starshine vs Legolas in a thick forest, they start out 1 mile from each other (but do have knowledge that the other is in there and that they must fight).


Haley is probably much better at stealth. Legolas may know the forest, but she knows how to hide much better than I imagine he can. I say this one favors her.

5) Elan vs Boromir on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


Could go either way. But if Elan can get an illusion off, he wins. Boromir's mind isnt exactly a fortress.... This however relies on Elan being smart enough to use an illusion... Favors Boromir.

6) Belkar vs all four hobbits on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.
And a couple extras...


He eats them

7) Hinjo vs Faramir on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.


Could go either way.

Xykon vs Saruman, they start out on a completely flat plain 20 feet from each other.


Xykon has a dracolich. That alone should speak to his power. But I am not familiar with the full range of Saruman's power, so cannot give a good estimate.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

User avatar
Oni Koneko Damien
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3852
Joined: 2004-03-10 07:23pm
Location: Yar Yar Hump Hump!
Contact:

Postby Oni Koneko Damien » 2007-08-24 07:25pm

Actually, slight self correction. Vars might have cast Annihilation twice, I can't remember for certain. In one of the first arcs, she cast it on a dragon while telling everyone how a wizard is rather important for party health. The dragon resisted the first time, so she simply cast it again, ashing him. She then reminded everyone that she just turned a dragon to ash and could do it to anyone else...almost implying she could have done it a third time then and there.

Either way, very high level spell twice in one day.
Gaian Paradigm: Because not all fantasy has to be childish crap.
Ephemeral Pie: Because not all role-playing has to be shallow.
My art: Because not all DA users are talentless emo twits.
"Phant, quit abusing the He-Wench before he turns you into a caged bitch at a Ren Fair and lets the tourists toss half munched turkey legs at your backside." -Mr. Coffee

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11674
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2007-08-24 07:26pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

Gandalf may have battled a balrog for 3 days, but a D&D wizard could probably have taken it out faster. Based upon his observed abilities I will say that V wins if he gets a spell off. Evans Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion. Also, his ability to cast finger of death twice in one day means one of two things. His intelligence is at least 22 (thus giving him an extra 7th level spell slot) or he is at least level 14-15. If he prepped nothing but those two spells, and his obligatory Evocation at that spell level. Unless we have details on how Gandalf beat that Balrog...


Assumes that D&D magics rules are the yardstick with which we should measure the encounter, which is simply not true. D&D magic rules favors offensive magic and quick combats. Counter magic and defensive spells are much more prominent in Lord of the Rings. V has a handful of spells useful against a balrog and then what? He dies.

Gandalf and the balrog shattered a door in their initial encounter just from the strain their various spells and counter spells placed upon it. Gandalf broke his sword and they fought for three days. A storm was summoned and lightning drawn down. The side of a mountain was broken. V can match none of that. All he has are spells that aren't necessarily very effective even if they aren't countered (want to guesstimate the balrogs saves and SR in D&D terms? If we use the balor as a ballpark V is shit out of luck), which the balrog will surely attempt.

And that was as Gandalf the Grey, not Gandalf the White. Gandalf wins.


Haley is probably much better at stealth.

Than a thousands of years old Lord of the Rings elf with preternatural sense and stealth abilities? I doubt it. And she's merely a capable archer.



Could go either way. But if Elan can get an illusion off, he wins. Boromir's mind isnt exactly a fortress...


Boromir was corrupted by prolonged exposure to an item that corrupts everybody. Isildur and Gollum were corrupted almost instantly, Gollum killing for he had even touched it. This isn't much of a condemnation of Boromir's mental strength.


7

Xykon has a dracolich. That alone should speak to his power. But I am not familiar with the full range of Saruman's power, so cannot give a good estimate.


No, he doesn't. No steeds and it was a zombie dragon, not a dracolich. Saruman the White wins. Xykon regenerates later. Again.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Postby Stormbringer » 2007-08-24 07:41pm

1) Roy Greenhilt vs Aragorn on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


Roy is actually a quite capable fighter, like all D&D fighters is very heavily armored, and has a very high powered ancestral weapon. My odds would tend to favor Roy in a one on one confrontation.

2) Vaarsuvius vs Gandalf on a completely flat plain, they start out 20 feet from each other.


The Ambiguous Elf takes it. D&D wizards are some of the most wanked out, walking artillery mages out there. Gandalf may have pulled off some impressive feats but magic in Tolkien's universe are much, much less potent when it comes to combat.

3) Durkon vs Gimli on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


Durkon has a very distinctive edge because of experience and spellcasting. Those are pretty significant advantages.

4) Haley Starshine vs Legolas in a thick forest, they start out 1 mile from each other (but do have knowledge that the other is in there and that they must fight).


Haley is not necessarily at her best in a forest. But given her impressive bluff skills I would wager that she bamboozles Legolas something fierce and leaves him robbed blind and puzzled on just how he got that way.

5) Elan vs Boromir on a completely flat plain, they start out 5 feet from each other.


Boromir. While Elan does fairly well now that he has taken up the Dashing Swordsman class, he's still not terribly bright. He's very likely to not even take it seriously until it's too late. With out the rest of the Order of the Stick he doesn't stand much of a chance.

6) Belkar vs all four hobbits on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.


You're comparing the "sexy, shoeless God of War" that is Belkar against four moderately usefull hobbits? He's a total headcase with a lust for killing and a personal grudge against Bagginses. The real question is will the other hobbits have enough time to run away when they discover Belkar wearing Frodo for an overcoat?

7) Hinjo vs Faramir on a completely flat plain, they start out 10 feet from each other.


Tough to say, especially with some of Hinjo's paladin skills being limited. I'd say it's a toss up really.

8) Xykon vs Saruman, they start out on a completely flat plain 20 feet from each other.


Saruman. Xylon is moderately retarded and with out Redcloak he's near hopeless.
Image

User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Postby Stormbringer » 2007-08-24 07:47pm

Gandalf broke his sword and they fought for three days. A storm was summoned and lightning drawn down. The side of a mountain was broken.


Do we really have proof of that? Gandalf's language is rather flowery and highly debateable. It's certainly a very impressive fight but I given that Gandalf's previous observed combat against the wolves (in which he was preparing to make a suicide attack) involved mostly fireballing a few wolves and then laying about with his sword.

Than a thousands of years old Lord of the Rings elf with preternatural sense and stealth abilities? I doubt it. And she's merely a capable archer.


Legolas isn't millenia old. He's very young as far as elves go and probably no more than a few centuries. Further more, while his people are good woodsmen his actually abilities are very much overstated. In LotR itself he's capable but he doesn't really exceed Aragorn when you come down to it.
Image

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11674
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2007-08-24 08:02pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Gandalf broke his sword and they fought for three days. A storm was summoned and lightning drawn down. The side of a mountain was broken.


Do we really have proof of that? Gandalf's language is rather flowery and highly debateable. It's certainly a very impressive fight but I given that Gandalf's previous observed combat against the wolves (in which he was preparing to make a suicide attack) involved mostly fireballing a few wolves and then laying about with his sword.


Gandalf's magic in the LoTR is much more impressive than his feats in The Hobbit. It's almost certainly a product of the his role being reimagined between the books. In LoTR he uses as little power as he needs to get by.

The storm was most certainly observed, as was the one around Weather Top when he fought the Nazgul and there was plenty of damage to Weather Top when Aragon arrived. As Gandalf the Grey he is able to break Saruman's spell and overcome Theodain's court in the books and as the White he easily repels an attack from Gimli, Aragorn, and Legolas when they think he is Saruman.

Than a thousands of years old Lord of the Rings elf with preternatural sense and stealth abilities? I doubt it. And she's merely a capable archer.


Legolas isn't millenia old. He's very young as far as elves go and probably no more than a few centuries. Further more, while his people are good woodsmen his actually abilities are very much overstated. In LotR itself he's capable but he doesn't really exceed Aragorn when you come down to it.[/quote]

I believe he does have a couple of millenia under his belt, but I'm sure either Necronlord or The Balrog will have the correct numbers. A quote I was able to find "Five hundred times have the red leaves fallen in Mirkwood my home since then," said Legolas, "and but a little while does that seem to us," seems to indicate he's well passed five hundred.

Legolas's abilities don't seem to exceed Aragorn in much save archery in the book, but Aragorn is tremendously skilled. Haley is less so.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11674
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2007-08-24 08:05pm

Since the Gandalf/V thing is probably going to go on for a while, here's link to Balrog's excellent Gandalf thread:

Gandalf


Might as well use all his hard work.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Soldier of Entropy
Padawan Learner
Posts: 184
Joined: 2006-12-28 08:15am
Location: Boston

Postby Soldier of Entropy » 2007-08-24 10:08pm

Hmmm... ok, based on what I've read, I feel a bit of clarification/modification is in order.
1)-same
2)-same
3)-same
4)-Legolas does NOT know this forest whatsoever; it is completely foreign to him. Also, this is book-Legolas.
5+6) upon reflection, these were mismatches. Better match-ups might be Belkar vs Boromir and Elan vs 4 hobbits.
7) Hinjo cannot summon his wolf because this plane is cut off from the plane the wolf comes from...or something like that.
8) (weird, I just noticed that 8 ) without the space is that) Xykon is completely focused because Q told him that if he beats Saruman, he gets the gate.
and a few others I just thought of...
9) MITD vs Balrog (Balrogs don't have wings and cannot fly for the purposes of this scenario) in a perfectly flat plain starting off 30 feet from each other.
10) Miko (no Windstrider) vs Eowyn (no horse) in a perfectly flat plain starting off 10 feet from each other.
11) Leeky Windstaff (the evil druid) vs Treebeard in a thick forest, they start out 1 mile from each other (but do have knowledge that the other is in there and that they must fight).
Economic Left/Right: -5.25; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.90

User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Postby Stormbringer » 2007-08-25 01:30am

Imperial Overlord wrote:The storm was most certainly observed, as was the one around Weather Top when he fought the Nazgul and there was plenty of damage to Weather Top when Aragon arrived. As Gandalf the Grey he is able to break Saruman's spell and overcome Theodain's court in the books and as the White he easily repels an attack from Gimli, Aragorn, and Legolas when they think he is Saruman.


The damage to Weathertop is impressive, though the lack of any qualifiers makes it some what more difficult. But by D&D standards his feats are not so impressive. He mostly was sling around fire and lightening which is pretty easy for most D&D mages to do at even low levels. Given the terrain, it's not hard for something to be scene at great distance, it is after all why the watchtower was there in the first place.

As for Theoden, as Tolkien himself said it was accomplished as much with a deft word and some discrete poison as anything. It certainly wasn't nearly the sort of overblown thing the movie portrayed it at. Gandalf did inspire him to do so and with a fair amount of vigour but that's not really

Repelling the attack was potentially impressive but fairly vague once again. At best he can ward of some blows and repeat his arrow burning trick. Impressive feats but again nothing to the walking artillery batter that is the D&D mage.

Imperial Overlord wrote:I believe he does have a couple of millenia under his belt, but I'm sure either Necronlord or The Balrog will have the correct numbers. A quote I was able to find "Five hundred times have the red leaves fallen in Mirkwood my home since then," said Legolas, "and but a little while does that seem to us," seems to indicate he's well passed five hundred.


Legolas is accounted young and almost naive by elven standards. So that does lend credence to the idea that he's a few hundred rather than several millenia.

Imperial Overlord wrote:Legolas's abilities don't seem to exceed Aragorn in much save archery in the book, but Aragorn is tremendously skilled. Haley is less so.


He doesn't even exceed Aragorn that much in archery. The uber-elven archers thing is a brain bug of the highest order. And while both are very skilled, I wouldn't put them as being anything beyond high end experienced either.

I don't expect Haley to win a straight up fight. But then again I don't expect her to try and fight a fight either. She's got way more dirty tricks than Legolas and I expect her to use them.


Cool (weird, I just noticed that 8 ) without the space is that) Xykon is completely focused because Q told him that if he beats Saruman, he gets the gate.


Still Saruman pretty easily. Even goal oriented Xylon has serious attention span issues. I mean he's interviewing new minions in the middle of battle for pete's sake. Though if he were to actually put his mind to it he's a damn cagey opponent. I just don't see it working with out Redcloak to keep his impuslses in check.

9) MITD vs Balrog (Balrogs don't have wings and cannot fly for the purposes of this scenario) in a perfectly flat plain starting off 30 feet from each other.


Any particular Balrog? Because there are a couple of them ranging from Gothmog to Durin's Bane. I suspect they'll beat the Monster in the Dark rather handily, at least from the MitD's showing so far.

10) Miko (no Windstrider) vs Eowyn (no horse) in a perfectly flat plain starting off 10 feet from each other.


Miko. She may be a psychopathic murderesss but she's a psychopathic murderess that's been trained since childhood to smite things.
Image

User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Postby Gil Hamilton » 2007-08-25 03:11am

The problem is that Gandalf is pretty much an undefined quantity when it comes to what he can actually do with magic. We know for sure that he managed to survive a pretty huge fall from the Bridge at Khazad-dum, which even if he did hit a lake would be extraordinarily fatal normal and he did it while fighting a Balrog in hand to hand combat. Frankly, we don't know what exactly Gandalf could do.

He didn't want to do magic, particularly, after the Fellowship was launched because he knew that if he did, it would give Sauron their location. He didn't even want to magically conjure a fire to on the frozen side of a mountain in order to save their hides initially, because even that act might have sold them out.

I should note, however, that Maiar in general are not things to be trifled with. The last time the Maiar themselves went to war, nearly ALL of Beleriand was completely destroyed and sunk below the ocean in order to finally beat Morgoth. And Gandalf, despite being cloaked to disguise his true form and power in the LotR stories, was a powerful Maiar.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter

User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 21510
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Postby Alyrium Denryle » 2007-08-25 04:56am

Assumes that D&D magics rules are the yardstick with which we should measure the encounter, which is simply not true. D&D magic rules favors offensive magic and quick combats. Counter magic and defensive spells are much more prominent in Lord of the Rings. V has a handful of spells useful against a balrog and then what? He dies.

Gandalf and the balrog shattered a door in their initial encounter just from the strain their various spells and counter spells placed upon it. Gandalf broke his sword and they fought for three days. A storm was summoned and lightning drawn down. The side of a mountain was broken. V can match none of that. All he has are spells that aren't necessarily very effective even if they aren't countered (want to guesstimate the balrogs saves and SR in D&D terms? If we use the balor as a ballpark V is shit out of luck), which the balrog will surely attempt.


You are kidding right? I dont know what D&D games you play. But there are plenty of strong defensive magics that V would have in his repertoire. One of which is a spell that protects him absolutely from demons. Circle of Protection Against Evil. Then there is Wall of Force. All of which V can cast.

ALL of that is capable of being matched by a semi-competent 13th level wizard. He can control weather, call down lightning, and given the right spells, break the side of a damn mountain. He can even keep a Balrog at bay for long periods, long enough to kill it. It may even take him three days. But so long as that balrog is trapped in that forcecage (or he is in that forcecage) neither the Balrog, or gandalf would be able to touch him


The storm was most certainly observed, as was the one around Weather Top when he fought the Nazgul and there was plenty of damage to Weather Top when Aragon arrived. As Gandalf the Grey he is able to break Saruman's spell and overcome Theodain's court in the books and as the White he easily repels an attack from Gimli, Aragorn, and Legolas when they think he is Saruman.


Dispel Magic
Break Enchantment
Dispel Curse. Nothing V cant do, in terms of kicking Saruman out of Theodin

As for repelling attacks. Again, nothing V cant do with a single spell.

I don't expect Haley to win a straight up fight. But then again I don't expect her to try and fight a fight either. She's got way more dirty tricks than Legolas and I expect her to use them.


She is probably WAY the fuck better at stealth. She gets within thirty feet with that bow and Legolas ends up dealing with her sneak attack... Oh, then there are the traps...
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11674
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2007-08-25 06:14am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

You are kidding right? I dont know what D&D games you play. But there are plenty of strong defensive magics that V would have in his repertoire. One of which is a spell that protects him absolutely from demons. Circle of Protection Against Evil. Then there is Wall of Force. All of which V can cast.


Please, I don't know what games you play, but D&D wizard magic is mostly offensive, with some utility and defensive spells thrown in. D&D magic is like that because you have to choose spells well before the encounter and sorcerer spell selection is tiny. Fireball gets chosen because it is broadly effective. A D&D wizard has to hope he has chosen correctly before the encounter ever begins and ever present saving throws and SR (and OOTS universe, these things crop up all the time) diminishes the utility of even those. The OOTS druid fight is illustrative of this. He can't just whip out the most useful spells. He's stuck with what he has and he's certainly not recharging his spells for day two of continuous fight.

break the side of a damn mountain. He can even keep a Balrog at bay for long periods, long enough to kill it. It may even take him three days. But so long as that balrog is trapped in that forcecage (or he is in that forcecage) neither the Balrog, or gandalf would be able to touch him


V can equal some of his feats, but you haven't named the spells to break the side of a mountain. And forcecage doesn't last that long. Name the D&D wizard who's arsenal isn't nearly or totally exhausted after several minutes of continious combat. D&D spells fail because of saves and SR all the time and both of those conditions are canon in OOTS.


The
Dispel Magic
Break Enchantment
Dispel Curse. Nothing V cant do, in terms of kicking Saruman out of Theodin.


The book has him fill the hall with darkness, glow with light and paralyze Wormtongue in an instance. Name the spell that can do all three simultaneously. And he has to have them all prepared.

As for repelling attacks. Again, nothing V cant do with a single spell.

Name the spell that breaks arrows and heats up sword blades. Stoneskin's nice, but not up to the task.


She is probably WAY the fuck better at stealth. She gets within thirty feet with that bow and Legolas ends up dealing with her sneak attack... Oh, then there are the traps...


Better at stealth in a forest than a centuries old (at the minimum) wood elf? Her senses sure as hell aren't equal and she's never demonstrated any woodsy skills in the several times she's been in a forest. The terrain does not favor her. It is the natural terrain of an centuries or millenia old uber elf.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

Lord of the Abyss
Village Idiot
Posts: 4045
Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
Location: The Abyss

Postby Lord of the Abyss » 2007-08-25 07:29am

Alyrium Denryle wrote: He can even keep a Balrog at bay for long periods, long enough to kill it. It may even take him three days. But so long as that balrog is trapped in that forcecage (or he is in that forcecage) neither the Balrog, or gandalf would be able to touch him.

Given how poorly defined Gandalf & the Balrogs power are, there's no way to know if they could dispel that forcecage with their own magic. The book Balrog countered Gandalf's door locking spell with it's own magic, not by punching the door; it's a magic user as well.

User avatar
Civil War Man
NERRRRRDS!!!
Posts: 3278
Joined: 2005-01-28 03:54am

Postby Civil War Man » 2007-08-25 07:33am

Imperial Overlord wrote:The book has him fill the hall with darkness, glow with light and paralyze Wormtongue in an instance. Name the spell that can do all three simultaneously. And he has to have them all prepared.


At least in 2nd Ed, I think it's called Greater Contingency, which allows the wizard to pre-emptively "cast" three spells, but have them not take effect until a command word is spoken.

Name the spell that breaks arrows and heats up sword blades. Stoneskin's nice, but not up to the task.


As for sword blades, Heat Metal.

I'm currently ambivalent about the V/Gandalf fight. Just really throwing those examples out there.


Return to “Fantasy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests