Soon I'll be having to do a class presentation based on LOTR, specifically particular aspects of "The Silmarillion".
The topics my presentation is to cover include "The Voyage of Earendil", "the War of Wrath", "the Fate of the Silmarils", and "the Destruction of Beleriand." All of which take place in the Silmarillion in the First Age of Middle Earth.
I've taken alot of useful information in the Silmarillion book as well as some of the letters of J.R.R Tolkien, but the Silmarillion isn't exactly the easiest book to understand, so if anybody has any information/explanations of any of these events it would be greatly appreciated if you could share it
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Elheru Aran wrote:What specifically do you need to know? Any characters in particular?
My bad for not mentioning it, I need to basically give a general overview of the events, and then talk about characters that are also mentioned or make an appearence in the LOTR trilogy such as Earendil, as well as creatures that appear in both books (such as giant spiders that were Shelob's forebearers or balrogs). Basically I need to make alot of connections between the above events I mentioned and LOTR characters or events, showing how they are connected to eachother.
"If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one? "
-Abraham Lincoln
No real time right now, I can do a more thorough post later, but as for giant spiders, look up Ungoliant. There's also mention of giant spiders in The Hobbit, specifically in Mirkwood, quite possibly descended from Ungoliant.
As for Balrogs, they're lower Maiar corrupted and changed by Morgoth, similar to how he made the Orcs from Elves. No names are mentioned except for 'Gothmog Lord of Balrogs', apparently Morgoth's general (a role similar to the Witch-King of Angmar), who was killed by Ecthelion of the Fountain in the fall of Gondolin. Ecthelion had also killed several Balrogs before that, and Glorifindel fought a Balrog on the mountainside while leading evacuees to safety; he defeated the Balrog, but fell with it. Note that the character Glorifindel in LotR may very well be the same, and as such, be the only being brought back from the Halls of Mandos besides Luthien Tinuvel, Beren Erchamion, and Olorin.
Elheru Aran wrote:No real time right now, I can do a more thorough post later, but as for giant spiders, look up Ungoliant. There's also mention of giant spiders in The Hobbit, specifically in Mirkwood, quite possibly descended from Ungoliant.
As for Balrogs, they're lower Maiar corrupted and changed by Morgoth, similar to how he made the Orcs from Elves. No names are mentioned except for 'Gothmog Lord of Balrogs', apparently Morgoth's general (a role similar to the Witch-King of Angmar), who was killed by Ecthelion of the Fountain in the fall of Gondolin. Ecthelion had also killed several Balrogs before that, and Glorifindel fought a Balrog on the mountainside while leading evacuees to safety; he defeated the Balrog, but fell with it. Note that the character Glorifindel in LotR may very well be the same, and as such, be the only being brought back from the Halls of Mandos besides Luthien Tinuvel, Beren Erchamion, and Olorin.
More later...
The two Glorfindels are separate individuals. Not the same one.
I'd post more, but I'm off to bed now. Sorry.
Edi
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Edi wrote:
The two Glorfindels are separate individuals. Not the same one.
I'd post more, but I'm off to bed now. Sorry.
Edi
Debatable, as IIRC early writings by Tolkien indicate that the Glorifindels are in fact the same person. However, I have no problem with them being different people...
Earendil/Frodo
They aren't just copies of each other. Earendil is a descendant of kings, a warrior with legendary skills (sailing), and a general badass. But what the two of them did is essentially the same. Beleriand/Middle Earth was getting fucked up the ass, so a hero/hobbit made a perilous journey to Valinor/Mordor (note the contrast!) carrying a precious/evil (again) item of jewelry with only his wife/devoted friend to appease the gods/destroy the power of darkness in order to completely, irrevocably bitchslap Morgoth/Sauron. Earendil and Elwing were both half-elven, representing both the races; the Fellowship purported to represent all the free peoples of Middle-Earth. And the differences: as mentioned, Earendil was powerful, Frodo was powerless. Earendil represented the proud elvenkind being made humble; Frodo represented weak hobbits being exalted. Earendil succeeded because of his merits; Frodo succeeded because of his weakness. Frodo forgave Gollum because he helped them succeed; the gods forgave the elves because Earendil succeeded. Earendil was elevated to the status of legend and identified with a star in the sky by his people, while being only dimly remembered by others; Frodo was forgotten and ignored by his people, while being a legend among others. Frodo carries the same light in his pocket that Earendil wore on his brow.
Morgoth/Sauron, Ungoliant/Shelob
Both are evil rulers with the military power to conquer all who oppose them. Both can only be defeated by special, extra-ordinary means. Both capitalize on, exacerbate, and create fratricidal divisions among their enemies. Both use orcs, trolls, and human slaves. Morgoth is Sauron + Ancient Glory: he has more Balrogs, multiple dragons, and in one of Tolkein's first writings, he had Melko (Morgoth) destroy Gondolin using things reminiscent of steam tanks. Ungoliant and Shelob are literally related, and both play the same role: Ungoliant snared passerby near the Gasping Dust; Shelob snared those trying to pass into Mordor, a dark land of gasping dust.
War of Wrath/War of the Ring
A huge contrast here: Morgoth is destroyed by overwhelming military force from abroad, and the attack on Sauron is nothing but a pitiful diversion. There is, actually, something fundamentally different about the two villians: as Tolkien wrote (in Morgoth's Ring, I believe) that Morgoth's vast power was disseminated, whereas Sauron's comparatively tiny power was concentrated. As Sauron's power is concentrated in the Ring, so Morgoth's power is spread throughout the physical structure of the world: nowhere very powerful, but nowhere absent. (Gold is generally high in Morgoth content; water is generally low.) In order to destroy Morgoth the way Sauron was destroyed, the entire would would have to be destroyed. And so in the war against the first, every kingdom opposing him was wrecked; and against the second, Gondor, Rohan, Erebor, the Shire, Rivendell, Mirkwood, and Lothlorien all survived. However, there was still necessary sacrifice, if less violent: the elves lost their rings and faded, their realms eventually abandoned. At the end of both wars, the loyal men acquired a new kingdom.
I read somewhere that the War of Wrath was supposed to have taken 60-odd years. I can't source that, though, so I'll leave it up to you. I would suggest reading Morgoth's Ring; its the best of the HoME books IMHO.
The Encyclopedia of Arda. Some entries are more in-depth than others, but it should be good for you in a quick refresher/cliff notes overview sort of way.
If you have time, Search for Unfinished Tales and there is also serie of notes by Christopher Tolkien and the Atlas who can give you usefull information.
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Would the unfinished tales count? Although it mentions the difficulty of the history of Galaderial, it also gives more information about why she went into that "dark queen" spiel in FOTR.
Essentially, Galaderial joined the exiles because she was not only tired of Valinor, but also wished to have a realm of her own to rule where she could belong. The curse of Mandos was apparently never lifted from her, and she could not return to the blessed realm even after the destruction of Beliarland, although Tolkien alternates between having her stay out of love for Celeborn or out of desire for lordship.
Her passing the test in the War of the Ring either lifted the ban or removed the last burden placed on her, allowing her to pass into the Blessed Realm.
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Elheru Aran wrote:who was killed by Ecthelion of the Fountain in the fall of Gondolin. Ecthelion had also killed several Balrogs before that,
That's a bit dubious, this is seemingly from the only complete rendition of the Fall of Gondolin, which was compiled at a time when there were thousands of balrogs - acting as shock-troops - as opposed to seven or nine - acting as great captains - as there were in later works. Ecthelion's killing of multiple balrogs is quite possibly up there with Morgoth's tanks, while not explicitly contradicted, both seem rather dubious in light of later work.
Edi wrote:The two Glorfindels are separate individuals. Not the same one.
I'd post more, but I'm off to bed now. Sorry.
Edi
As you know, or at least, should know, that matter has never been set to rest. The changability of Tolkien's opinions on a matter before-publication, and the use of things like 'they were intended to be' seperate, does not bury the issue. There is as much evidence for the Glorfindel elves being the same fëa as there is against. All the comments made by Tolkien saying they were not concieved as such could simply mean that he intended to excise Glorfindel the First from The Fall of Gondolin, and use the name as a different character - this is something that he did twice for LotR, with Legolas Greenleaf and Gimli, both of whom appeared in The Fall of Gondolin but probably (in the case of Legolas) do not represent the same persons (though there is no way to say for certain, if one accepts The Fall of Gondolin as part of the canon, as no birth date for Legolas or his father is ever given) or certainly, in the case of Gimli - here an elf.
It really isn't a simple enough matter to say "Yes, he is the same as Glorfindel of Gondolin" or "No, he's a seperate elf, co-incidentally sharing the same name." It's very much up to the interpretation of the reader, when all is said and done.
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