Most Overrated Fantasy Writer - nominations!!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-05 02:37am

I plan on doing a poll about overrated fantasy writers.

Who do you nominate??

I nominate J.R.R. Tolkien. To cut him a little slack, he is one of the 20th century's greatest writers - but contrary to popular beliefs, HE DID NOT INVENT THE FANTASY GENRE!

Just look at Robert E.Howard's short stories and novellae about Conan the Barbarian and King Kull of Valusia. They predate "The Hobbit" by several years, and I wouldn't call them anything else than swords-and-sorcery fantasy fiction.

Tolkien might have innovated the fantasy genre and made it more intelligent and sophisticated - he definately took it to new heights and depths, but HE DID NOT INVENT THE GENRE.

Your nominations??

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-05 02:43am

Lovecraft, because Poe did it well before him.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-05 02:45am

Poe.

Lovecraft was far better, and didn't produce produce as high of a ratio of mediocre work.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-05 02:47am

And Simon: that's the first time I've heard Tolkien being credited with anything such as that...

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-05 04:50am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Lovecraft, because Poe did it well before him.

Lovecraft did write a few fantasy stories (such as "The Quest Of Iranon" and "The Cats of Ulthar"), but aren't the bulk of his works considered to be horror rather than fantasy? (Same for E.A. Poe.)

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:And Simon: that's the first time I've heard Tolkien being credited with anything such as that...

Well, in Denmark I often see Tolkien credited with that. But that's probably because few danes have even heard of Robert E.Howard. (For some reason, I can find Lovecraft books at the library but not any of Howard's!)

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-07-05 10:51am

Robert Jordan.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-07-05 11:37am

Anne McAffrey, or however you spell it. The one who wrote the 3 zillion and counting "Dragons of Pern" books.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-05 01:21pm

BTW, as an advice - do not nominate authors generally considered hacks save for a few cult followers, even if they're really, really bad.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-07-05 01:29pm

Tolkien. He's really not that good, ok?

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-07-05 01:44pm

Hmm...i see alot of tolkein referenced here...and i must say i agree. When i read lordo f the rings i thought it was cool character wise, but the magic and demons etc shouldve been done loads better.

SecondStorm · Post by **SecondStorm** » 2003-07-05 06:34pm

innerbrat wrote:Robert Jordan.

I cant decide between Robert Jordan or Tolkien.
Both are boring as hell

.
Im currently chewing my way through Winters Heart. *groan*

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-07-05 08:00pm

SecondStorm wrote:
innerbrat wrote:Robert Jordan.
I cant decide between Robert Jordan or Tolkien.
Both are boring as hell .
Im currently chewing my way through Winters Heart. *groan*

From the blurb on the back of Wheel of Time:

The greatest fantasy epic ever written

Jordan has come to dominate the world Tolkien began to reveal

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-07-05 08:04pm

Tolkien easily

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-06 03:31am

innerbrat wrote:From the blurb on the back of Wheel of Time:

The greatest fantasy epic ever written

Now THAT's what I call an overrated author!!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-07 03:39am

I also nominate David Eddings. Admittedly, I haven't read his works, but from what I've heard about them, I think they qualify as overrated. Do they?

BTW, what about Terry Goodkind? He's considered a good writer by the mainstream publicity, but since most comments on him by SD.Net posters were rather negative writers, I think we could also include him.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-07-07 04:51am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:BTW, as an advice - do not nominate authors generally considered hacks save for a few cult followers, even if they're really, really bad.

Is Anne McCaffrey considered a hack except for a small cult following? Because if she isn't, she should be. Furthermore, the old crone has some absolutely disgusting and homophobic theories which she demands her little group of cult fans accepts as scientific fact, when in fact they're a load of scientific nonsense up there with Magic Melanin and White Power.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-07-07 04:55am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
innerbrat wrote:From the blurb on the back of Wheel of Time:

The greatest fantasy epic ever written
Now THAT's what I call an overrated author!!

I've yet to encounter anyway who would seriously think that however.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-07-07 05:49am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
I've yet to encounter anyway who would seriously think that however.

I've heard several people claim he is better than Tolkien, which he is most assuredly not.

Post by **Edi** » 2003-07-07 05:59am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:I also nominate David Eddings. Admittedly, I haven't read his works, but from what I've heard about them, I think they qualify as overrated. Do they?

BTW, what about Terry Goodkind? He's considered a good writer by the mainstream publicity, but since most comments on him by SD.Net posters were rather negative writers, I think we could also include him.

Eddings writes entertaining stories with funny characters, but the Elenium and Tamuli trilogies are just a rehash of Belgariad and Malloreon, and The Redemption of Althalus is again the same story with the same characters who've had a cosmetic makeover. His works are, compared to many other authors (e.g. J.V. Jones, Stephen Donaldson, Raymond E. Feist), nothing spectacular, so Eddings does deserve a nomination. Eddings's best book by far is the non-fiction title The Losers. It wipes the floor with the rest of his works combined.

Goodkind is... Well, his books aren't worth the paper they are printed on, and the less said of them, the better. They're nothing more than sanctimonius sermonizing thinly and incompetently disguised as stories, and the further the story progresses, the worse it becomes. The characters are all paper cutouts too, and his blatant misogynism is the final straw. *vomits*

I'd also like to nominate R.A. Salvatore. He became famous with the Dark Elf books he wrote for TSR, and he has used the reputation he made with them to sell a lot of low quality crap since. He usually takes the shortest, easiest and laziest way of doing things, cookie-cuttering stuff directly from somewhere in history and just renaming places, characters and events. The Demon Spirit trilogy had exactly two original ideas in it (source of magic and the new twist on dwarves), and they certainly couldn't carry it in face of the other stuff that was in there. The Sword of Bedwyr trilogy was pure crap from start to finish. Not to mention that the characters in both series are simply recycled lower quality versions of the characters in the Dark Elf books, every last one of them.

The Spearwielder's Tale trilogy has merits and is actually quite well written, but it's more of a traditional fairy tale than conventional fantasy, and was not greatly to my taste. But it's good quality.

Salvatore's best works by far are the Drizz't books and Vector Prime wasn't too bad either, but there is a significant difference between them and his own original works: In both cases he is playing in somebody else's sandbox. He's given a ready-made world or universe, with a lot of the history written out for him, all he needs is to make up a few characters of his own and start writing. And he does it astonishingly well, producing really high quality work. But creating his own worlds from scratch, that's not his strength, in my opinion anyway.

And lastly, we can't forget Tad Williams. Anyone who has managed to survive reading through the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy must have great mental endurance and sleep resistance. I've not read anything more boring in the fantasy genre, ever. And that's saying a lot, as I've read quite a bit. Not only is his work mind-numbingly boring, it's also cookie-cuttered real world history with new names. Slash 2000 pages away from it and it would be readable, but just barely.

Edi

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-07-07 07:52am

Edi; from that description Goodkind seems to be like a mentally retarded C.S. Lewis.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-07-07 08:58am

Darth Gojira wrote:Edi; from that description Goodkind seems to be like a mentally retarded C.S. Lewis.

Don't give Goodkind that much credit

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-07-07 09:03am

JK Rowling would have to be on my list, although she has gotten better over the course of the series. It will be interesting to see what she writes next, if anything.

Robert Jordan is overrated IMHO, but I can still enjoy his books to some extent. I only hope that the next couple of books make up for the general suckiness of the past couple.

Terry Goodkind can suck my balls. Pure and simple. He blows.

I wasn't too impressed with Terry Brooks either.

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2003-07-07 09:21am

Edi wrote: Eddings writes entertaining stories with funny characters, but the Elenium and Tamuli trilogies are just a rehash of Belgariad and Malloreon, and The Redemption of Althalus is again the same story with the same characters who've had a cosmetic makeover. His works are, compared to many other authors (e.g. J.V. Jones, Stephen Donaldson, Raymond E. Feist), nothing spectacular, so Eddings does deserve a nomination. Eddings's best book by far is the non-fiction title The Losers. It wipes the floor with the rest of his works combined.

Edi

ACtually, I personally liked Donaldson's work (assuming we're talking about Stephen R., here) He can't write Sci-Fi for beans, but he did the Thomas Covanent Series rather well. As I recallm, an English teacher couldn't get through them because she hated Covenant so damn much.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-07 11:16am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:BTW, as an advice - do not nominate authors generally considered hacks save for a few cult followers, even if they're really, really bad.
Is Anne McCaffrey considered a hack except for a small cult following? Because if she isn't, she should be.

I thought she was rather well-liked by the general public. When I said "authors generally considered hacks", I wasn't thinking of McCaffrey but of far worse authors.

In fact - McCaffrey deserves to be on the poll if she isn't considered the hack she is.

Edi wrote: The characters are all paper cutouts too, and his blatant misogynism is the final straw

Hmmm... should we start describing Terry Goodkind as "John Norman Jr."??

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-07-07 01:29pm

I have to go with Tolkien here. I can't even BEGIN to read his works.

The biggest hack in Sci-fi is of course, KJA. What a moron.