Best vampires

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-06-30 10:14pm

Ok...just listening to Bif NAked's Vampire...and i thought...

Rye's Brain wrote:What vampires make for the best stories?
What vampiric things would be best for a realisitic super hero world?
In terms of cool looking powers, but still pretty much thought not to exist in real life? How would they have remained undetected for so long?

I ask because i want to fit them into my comic series somehow, as supporting story extras, sorta like the raiders in babylon 5.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-06-30 10:21pm

I would probably go with a classic vampire type which they have to share blood to turn into a vampire but organized like the vampires in the Anita Black: Vampire Hunter novels with master vampires and less vampires...both damn powerful. Anita Blake vampires are vurlerable to silver and I don't know if I would retain this weakness.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-06-30 10:28pm

Another thing i was thinking of adding to the mythos was to change the religious icon thing slightly. Instead of the icon having a constant effect, the effect it has would be relative to the person's faith in the object, or perhaps less effect depending on how faithful the vampire was before it was turned.

I think i'll keep the silver thing.

The pat/matriarchal society thing is a good idea and will start vampire gang wars, which i like the sound of.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-06-30 10:28pm

V:tM vampires would probably suit your purposes, you may want to downplay their powers a lot though.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-06-30 10:29pm

Definatley not Rice-ian or Buffy-ian types.

I always liked how Dracula was depicted by Klaus Kinski (sp?) in the 70s remake of Nasferatu.

But powerful or weak, I would always keep them as monsters, not lovers...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-06-30 10:32pm

Rye wrote:Another thing i was thinking of adding to the mythos was to change the religious icon thing slightly. Instead of the icon having a constant effect, the effect it has would be relative to the person's faith in the object, or perhaps less effect depending on how faithful the vampire was before it was turned.

That's actually (particularly the bolded part) how it originally was supposed to work, but it kind of got corrupted over the years (or some writers just didn't know or were too lazy to look it up).

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-06-30 11:23pm

Well, for a realistic superhero world (I'm assuming where the majority of superheros are Batman,Cap,Darkman like in powers and general feel) I'll say either a turned down Blade/V:M style vampire org or a more Bram Stoker version. If you go with Bram Stoker, have the servant type vampires as the most common type of vampire your guys occasionaly run into with an actaully Dracula type as a main baddie for a story arch or two.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-07-01 12:00am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Rye wrote:Another thing i was thinking of adding to the mythos was to change the religious icon thing slightly. Instead of the icon having a constant effect, the effect it has would be relative to the person's faith in the object, or perhaps less effect depending on how faithful the vampire was before it was turned.
That's actually (particularly the bolded part) how it originally was supposed to work, but it kind of got corrupted over the years (or some writers just didn't know or were too lazy to look it up).

There are three schools of thought on how Christian imagery effects vampires:

1. God acts through the image Himself, so that vampires can't approach crosses even when there's no one near them.

2. The faith of the person holding the image drives the vampire away. This was eventually carried way past its logical conclusion, to the point where excessively greedy people were fending off vampires with their wallets.

3. It's all in the vampires' minds, and if they train themselves properly crosses won;t have any effect. (A bit harder to find than the other two, but demonstrated well in Pratchett's Carpe Jugulum.)

As for vulnerability to silver, that probably came about only after vampires became associated with werewolves in the early days of Hollywood horror movies, so it'd be fine to toss it, IMO.

KK · Post by KK » 2003-07-01 12:33am

I tend to like the hybrids, like D. They aren't a vampire, and they aren't a human, so they are an enemy to both.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-07-01 12:46am

Andrew J. wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Rye wrote:Another thing i was thinking of adding to the mythos was to change the religious icon thing slightly. Instead of the icon having a constant effect, the effect it has would be relative to the person's faith in the object, or perhaps less effect depending on how faithful the vampire was before it was turned.
That's actually (particularly the bolded part) how it originally was supposed to work, but it kind of got corrupted over the years (or some writers just didn't know or were too lazy to look it up).
There are three schools of thought on how Christian imagery effects vampires:

1. God acts through the image Himself, so that vampires can't approach crosses even when there's no one near them.

2. The faith of the person holding the image drives the vampire away. This was eventually carried way past its logical conclusion, to the point where excessively greedy people were fending off vampires with their wallets.

3. It's all in the vampires' minds, and if they train themselves properly crosses won;t have any effect. (A bit harder to find than the other two, but demonstrated well in Pratchett's Carpe Jugulum.)

As for vulnerability to silver, that probably came about only after vampires became associated with werewolves in the early days of Hollywood horror movies, so it'd be fine to toss it, IMO.

It can also be that the figure of the cross itself is magical and was only appropriated by Christianity because it has inherent power.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-07-01 12:55am

Whatever you do, don't make them angsty. I hate angsty vampires.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-01 03:17am

For shear style, look no further than alucard.
Proud, arrogant and exceptionally egotistical he is also helpful beyond his normal servitude.
Oh and a giant gun, near invulnerability and nifty shapechanging, just makes him a sweeter deal.
He agrees almost perfectly with my personal vision of a very old vamp.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-01 05:17am

The Psychic vamps from Colin Wilson.

"Let's pretend we are an erotic dream, and drain them of their life energy while they sleep."

Not to mention the end of the book, where there's a GOOD psi vamp, running around as a tantric cult leader.

Shortie · Post by **Shortie** » 2003-07-01 08:11am

You might want to hold off on the uber-powered ones, since then you'll have to explain why they're not ruling us like cattle, how human history is in any way similar to RL, and so on.

Hence I'd suggest ones about the power and socialising level of Buffy ones, though you don't have to have the whole demon replacing the soul thing, and a smaller number of potentially apocalytic events would probably be a good idea too.

Assuming your superheroes are Batman\Movie X-Men level they could still be a threat, but if you've got Superman\JLA level people it's a wash. But then so's pretty much anything, so YMMV.

Oh, and another vote for not having angsty ones. They're so irritating. (Oh no! I'm an immortal superhuman. Woe is me! Yawn.

)

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-07-01 08:23am

I love how what Stoker did to the Vampire Mythos -- He gave them almost all of their super-powers, and then people complain when they don't have those abilities.

Not all vamps should have Dracula-like Abilities, robs Drac of his special-ness.

A classical European Vampire has the following abilities, which are enough for the entity to still be neat.

1. Ability to drain blood for sustinence (Basic ability of all vampires, except psychic and life-force varieties)
2. Great Strength -- to hold down a victim
3. Climbing/Leaping ability--to get into victims rooms.

Literally, the original vampires tended to do little more than CLimb in a window, drink the blood and then flee into the night.

these are basic powers of the original, 'Living Corpse' vampires, other powers vary from region to region.

Shadow vampires have a few more powers:
1. Ability to drain blood for sustinene
2. Incorporeal 'Phantom' Form (Can be solidified when feeding/attacking)
3. Shape-Changing ability (related to Incorporeal form)
4. Levitation/Flight (related to incorporeal form)--even through walls.
5. Paralysis of victims (they seem as a 'Heavy weight' on their prey)

Of course, popular fiction combines the two varieties to give them all those powers.

Sorry for the rant, I don't like uber-wank vamps aside from Dracula (after all, He's Dracula!)

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2003-07-01 09:25am

Some of Dracula's powers come from the fact that he supposedly learned black magic from the devil.

As for the original question. Whatever you do, they are supernatural, undead monsters. NOT some dumb-ass virus or any other technobabble shit. I personally prefer 'tranditional' vampires with the powers, and all the weakness that that intails. And I never understood vampire gangs or huge societies. The more vampires around, the less people to feed off of personally and the more likely it is that you're going to get caught. The key is to blend in with humanity. Why would a vampire want to hang around with other vampires? As for angst. The only person who would be able to become a damned, undead monster, feeding off the blood of the living, and not come out of it with at least a few issues, is a psychotic.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2003-07-01 12:01pm

I'd say that Vampires should be affected by all religious icons held by someone of strong faith. Unfortunately, that leaves Taoists and atheists high and dry.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-07-01 12:49pm

The vampires in Dan Simmons's Children of the Night were pretty cool I think. Less mysticism and more science then in most Vampire stories, I like that.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-07-01 12:51pm

Baron Mordo wrote:I'd say that Vampires should be affected by all religious icons held by someone of strong faith. Unfortunately, that leaves Taoists and atheists high and dry.

Well us Evilutionists can always resort to Darwin's Origin of Species.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-07-01 01:42pm

Baron Mordo wrote:I'd say that Vampires should be affected by all religious icons held by someone of strong faith. Unfortunately, that leaves Taoists and atheists high and dry.

I'd ward 'em off with a stuffed penguin!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-07-01 01:44pm

Baron Mordo wrote:I'd say that Vampires should be affected by all religious icons held by someone of strong faith. Unfortunately, that leaves Taoists and atheists high and dry.

Plenty of atheists have great force of will. That should do it.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-07-01 01:47pm

Baron Mordo wrote:I'd say that Vampires should be affected by all religious icons held by someone of strong faith. Unfortunately, that leaves Taoists and atheists high and dry.

Actually, in Chinese movies with vampires Taoist priests do have ways of defeating vampires.

They use magic spells and spells written on paper.

And vampires should hop like in Chinese movies.

As for atheists, we don't need faith. We just need weapons.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-07-01 02:08pm

I was wondering how ya'll liked the orgin given for dracula in the movie Dracula 2000..... Where he is really the disciple who betrayed Jesus and his weakness against silver comes from the fact that he was paid in silver and God's punishment for betraying his son was to never die, be unable to walk during the day, not able to touch religious stuff.... etc, etc.....

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-07-01 02:12pm

Death from the Sea wrote:I was wondering how ya'll liked the orgin given for dracula in the movie Dracula 2000..... Where he is really the disciple who betrayed Jesus and his weakness against silver comes from the fact that he was paid in silver and God's punishment for betraying his son was to never die, be unable to walk during the day, not able to touch religious stuff.... etc, etc.....

I thought it was interesting and actually brought up plausible, well as plausible as you can get, reasons for the vulnerabilities.

But the movie still wasn't that good.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-07-01 02:27pm

Yeah, while the Christians are holding up crosses to fend off the vamps, we atheists are using big explosives to blow them to pieces.

At any rate, any vampire is pretty cool as long as it's not like those weenie vamps from "From Dusk Till Dawn." Those were sad.