Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)

[RogueIce]

NO BOOK SPOILERS NOT EVEN IN SPOILER BOXES PLEASE

With the necessary header out of the way, on to the show!

Lots of setup, as expected. Sad to see Mance go, though Jon Snow giving him mercy was great and fitting. Poor Brienne is in a dark place now, hopefully she can get herself out of it. And Tyrion off to meet Daenerys? HELL YES HELL YES HELL YES!

So let's discuss Season 5, without the book spoilers!

[Ziggy Stardust]

The show's first flashback was an interesting choice. Now, they were obviously hinting strongly that Margaery is the younger queen from the prophecy (and Cersei obviously thinks so), but I'm also wondering if maybe it isn't all a big fake-out. After all, Daenarys fits the same criteria in the prophecy, and Cersei was pretty dismissive of her last season.

[Dominus Atheos]

The first four episodes have been leaked on Bittorrent.

[Guardsman Bass]

It was a good episode, albeit with a long-ass "previously on Game of Thrones" segment. I think Jon Snow's segment may have actually been my favorite, even more than Tyrion or Daenerys - despite the fact that they haven't really hinted at what they're building at with him, and he's probably the least emotive out of all the characters on the show (which makes him in-character).

We also got our first real flashback. I was genuinely surprised by that, considering that they've avoided any flashbacks up to this point.

I'm going to guess that Emilia Clarke was the unnamed actress who said she didn't want to do any more nude scenes on the show, based off of that scene with Daario. Speaking of which, he's really growing on me as a character - it annoyed me that he wasn't really arrogant, something the first guy cast did well.

The first four episodes have been leaked on Bittorrent.

Unsurprisingly from screeners sent out to reviewers. It's one of the more common forms of leaking stuff. I actually want my enjoyment of the show to be protracted, so I'll pass on watching them.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm going to guess that Emilia Clarke was the unnamed actress who said she didn't want to do any more nude scenes on the show, based off of that scene with Daario.

What do you mean unnamed? Emilia Clarke has been pretty public about her desire not to do any more nude scenes since the end of season 3.

After all, Daenarys fits the same criteria in the prophecy, and Cersei was pretty dismissive of her last season.

Come to think of it, Sansa fits the criteria of the prophecy as well.

[Elfdart]

That episode was a snore. The only interesting part was little Cersei being shown as a bitch on wheels at an early age. Then of course there's the hackneyed prophesy bit (Is Return of the Jedi the only modern story showing that prophesies are bullshit?), and the equally hackneyed "shoot the man on the bonfire to put him out of his misery" bit. All in all a waste of an hour better spent watching Nurse Jackie reruns on Showtime.

[Vympel]

That episode was a snore. The only interesting part was little Cersei being shown as a bitch on wheels at an early age. Then of course there's the hackneyed prophesy bit (Is Return of the Jedi the only modern story showing that prophesies are bullshit?), and the equally hackneyed "shoot the man on the bonfire to put him out of his misery" bit. All in all a waste of an hour better spent watching Nurse Jackie reruns on Showtime.

With the sole exception of Season 1, Episode 1, season openers always have a 'catching up where everyone is' quality to them, so there's rarely any actual plot progression. We also don't have Joffrey, Tywin, Ramsay, Roose, or some other real villain to root against in this episode. That said I quite liked it - Stannis' characterisation was spot on (him talking about putting Bolton's head on a spike made my heart flutter), Sansa being so assertive was a treat, and watching Lord Royce shake his head at Robin Arryn training was a good laugh.

The return of Lancel (and his father Kevan, who hasn't been seen since Season 2) was also well done - Lancel looked so fucking different and had "religious whackjob" down pat.

EDIT: also, Ciarian Hinds acted the shit out of everything in that episode, especially his death.

(Return of the Jedi had prophecy?)

I hope that Dany sounding like a huge idiot by saying basically "I'm a Queen so I don't have to do politics" (that is your whole job you dumbass) is deliberate.

Episode 2 preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJiWbV3C1v0

[TheHammer]

I hope that Dany sounding like a huge idiot by saying basically "I'm a Queen so I don't have to do politics" (that is your whole job you dumbass) is deliberate.

You're seeing Dany without Ser Jorah advising her of the finer points of ruling/politics. Ser Barristan isn't really suited for that sort of thing, and quite frankly neither is Daario.

[Elfdart]

EDIT: also, Ciarian Hinds acted the shit out of everything in that episode, especially his death.

Which convinced me Mance was as good as dead. One last showy performance on the resume before trying to land a new acting gig.

(Return of the Jedi had prophecy?)

Palpatine kept going on and on about his foresight. Then Vader body-slammed him. Oops.

I hope that Dany sounding like a huge idiot by saying basically "I'm a Queen so I don't have to do politics" (that is your whole job you dumbass) is deliberate.

No, she's dumb as a fucking stump. Hot as hell, all wrapped up in those satin sheets, but still a dumbass.

[TheHammer]

No, she's dumb as a fucking stump. Hot as hell, all wrapped up in those satin sheets, but still a dumbass.

She's not dumb, merely inexperienced and too idealistic - and rather inflexible when she feels those ideals are being trampled upon. But her move to steal the unsullied was a master stroke.

As I alluded to above, she's lacking any really good advisers on matters of state right now. But she's shown a willingness to listen to advice and adjust how she rules accordingly. Her two biggest needs are roles that Varys and Tyrion could fill quite nicely if it were to work out that way...

[Napoleon the Clown]

So where we are: Tyrion is putting even more effort into making sure liver failure gets him before anyone or anything else.

The Unsullied are seeking out whores so they can get a nice cuddle and lullaby.

Dany's still incredibly naive and stubborn.

Stannis the Mannis doesn't know jack about the Wildlings. If he wants them to help him he needs to promise them that they'll have their own land and not have to pay any dues or loyalty to the Iron Throne. A group that calls themselves The Free Folk seriously aren't interested in a dude that says "I'm your boss because I say so!" Executing Mance means there's basically zero chance any Wildling will ever help him in any capacity.

Sansa continues to learn how to be an Utter Shit while maintaining a life expectancy measured in years rather than months. I suspect that, at least in the show, this will be Littlefinger's undoing. Sansa definitely knows better than to trust that he has her interests at heart, and she's smart enough that she could figure out how many of her loved ones died as a result of Littlefinger's machinations. His training means she's gonna have the capacity to recognize the pieces of the puzzle.

Cersei, as mentioned, has been an egotistical little shit from childhood. Related to leaked content (though there's plenty already aired to back it up), but unspecific enough to not constitute a spoiler: Does Cersei ever entertain the thought that being an antagonistic asshole is the source of a great many problems she runs into in life?


Nothing else really springs to mind.

[TheFeniX]

Alexander Siddig in the spoiler for next episode: awesome. Not much really else going on that someone else hasn't already mentioned.

She's not dumb, merely inexperienced and too idealistic - and rather inflexible when she feels those ideals are being trampled upon. But her move to steal the unsullied was a master stroke.

Less masterstroke and more wondering how anyone thought a flying, firebreathing monstrosity would listen to your orders because you had it on a leash. Seriously, it's a dragon and Mr. Slavemaster's death was wholly his own fault for not having something on hand to control and/or contain said dragon during the payment process.

[TheHammer]

Alexander Siddig in the spoiler for next episode: awesome. Not much really else going on that someone else hasn't already mentioned.

She's not dumb, merely inexperienced and too idealistic - and rather inflexible when she feels those ideals are being trampled upon. But her move to steal the unsullied was a master stroke.

Less masterstroke and more wondering how anyone thought a flying, firebreathing monstrosity would listen to your orders because you had it on a leash. Seriously, it's a dragon and Mr. Slavemaster's death was wholly his own fault for not having something on hand to control and/or contain said dragon during the payment process.

The idea of her transferring control of the dragon to the slavemasters was believable enough that Jorah and Barristan tried to talk her out of it. Her poker face was ever present despite being able to understand everything the masters were saying, she never batted an eye - making the slavers believe that she was naive and could be manipulated. She appropriately determined that she could get the unsullied for the price of one large dragon while knowing all along she'd never have to pay.

One could hardly blame the slavemaster for thinking that he, an experienced slaver and trainer, would be able to do what a foolish teenage girl could do - tame a dragon.

[TheFeniX]

The idea of her transferring control of the dragon to the slavemasters was believable enough that Jorah and Barristan tried to talk her out of it.

They probably, like a lot of viewers, thought it would go down like how Frey handled the Dire Wolf at the Red Wedding: locked up and easy(or easier) to subdue if things get out of hand.

Her poker face was ever present despite being able to understand everything the masters were saying, she never batted an eye - making the slavers believe that she was naive and could be manipulated. She appropriately determined that she could get the unsullied for the price of one large dragon while knowing all along she'd never have to pay.

A plan wholly dependent on the slaveman handing over the keys to his city (in the form of a scepter) leaving him with only a few men to defend himself from thousands of soldiers that now fight for the Dragon Queen. The Dragon killing him really didn't matter at that point since she could just order her new slave soldiers to kill everyone.... oh, and she did just that.

That the transaction took place in city walls with all the troops not only assembled, but also armed is insanity. That entire scene was hilariously contrived.

One could hardly blame the slavemaster for thinking that he, an experienced slaver and trainer, would be able to do what a foolish teenage girl could do - tame a dragon.

"Taming" people from birth is different than trying to tame a creature that cannot be tamed, merely dealt with by people within a certain bloodline. Let's say she was trading "The Mountain" to Slavedude: is he going to take ownership of a killing machine if he shows up in full-plate and sword and board, and the only thing holding him at bay is a leash? Fuck no. If the dragon was still a whelping, that would be another story, but it was obviously an adolescent at that point.

Even if he thought they were still whelps, the minute he saw the thing was bigger than him and capable of flight and fire-breathing, he should have been like "whoa whoa, put a muzzle on that thing before you cram it into a cage." That he tried to demand a fucking dragon listen to his commands is about as crazy as doing so with any other wild animal that is capable of killing you, like a lion... a tiger, or a bear.

[Vympel]

Which convinced me Mance was as good as dead. One last showy performance on the resume before trying to land a new acting gig.

Yeah, it seems like it. Hinds talks about this here:

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-th ... more-29983

The same link also has GRRM talking about prophecy (in sum, he likes the old trope of them coming true in obscure/oblique/unexpected ways).

Palpatine kept going on and on about his foresight. Then Vader body-slammed him. Oops.

Well yeah, but that's not technically prophecy failing, because he didn't make a contrary prediction. That's the force granting you visions of the future. Everything Palpatine said would happen did in fact come true, IIRC. He just didn't see everything.

No, she's dumb as a fucking stump. Hot as hell, all wrapped up in those satin sheets, but still a dumbass.

Heh - you know who else wasn't a politician? Her father, or her brother.

[Pelranius]

Looks like Rhaegar got all the smarts in that family.

Didn't see Master Aemon in the Castle Black scenes (or my eyes are failing me). I imagine that Shireen would love him (might even remind him of her great grandma, Aemon's niece Rhaella).

[FTeik]

I wonder against whom Brienne will prove her badassery this season. In season 2 she defeated Loras Tyrell, in season 3 Jaime Lannister and The Hound in season four - the Maid of Tarth is shaping up to be the most accomplished warrior of the series.

[Iroscato]

I wonder against whom Brienne will prove her badassery this season. In season 2 she defeated Loras Tyrell, in season 3 Jaime Lannister and The Hound in season four - the Maid of Tarth is shaping up to be the most accomplished warrior of the series.

I'll give her Loras Tyrell, but Jaime had his hands bound, as well as being (I assume) malnourished from his captors, and I seem to remember the Hound being quite badly wounded at the time of their fight, or at least recovering from a nasty wound on his side. She's still formidable though, undoubtedly.

[Thanas]

Anybody else felt the dialogue this episode was incredibly weak when compared to earlier episodes? There really was no exchange that was memorable due to the written dialogue (acting by Ciaran Hinds was awesome though).

[TheFeniX]

Anybody else felt the dialogue this episode was incredibly weak when compared to earlier episodes? There really was no exchange that was memorable due to the written dialogue (acting by Ciaran Hinds was awesome though).

In my opinion, a lot of that comes from retreading old information and drawing out scenes with it. Varys and Tyrion was a perfect example. Patricide, a drunk, self-loathing, yea yea yea, we get it: your life is shit, Varys doesn't need to pour it on. I don't get cold, the one true God keeps me warm. I'm Stannis, I've got a stick up my ass. I'm the Queen, I have dragons, whatever. The entire episode was "shit I already knew" and Mance getting killed was the only part worth rating a pulse increase.

And Hinds being awesome is a given. The man made Ghostrider worth watching, not to mention John Carter. We just need James Purefoy to come on the show and get killed so we can have the whole Rome trifecta. Then again, Edmure is probably still alive somewhere. Most likely not enjoying his accommodations.

[Pelranius]

Speaking of James Purefoy, people have suggested that he go for the role of Euron Greyjoy, but I keep on thinking of Gerion Lannister (yeah, I know he's unseen in the books to date).

[FaxModem1]

So, how far away is Pentos from Yunkai? I'm assuming Varys and Tyrion(preferably not in a crate) can travel there quickly by boat due to having money and not needing to cross the desert by foot. If it takes a week or two, that's not so bad, if it takes months, that's enough time for Dany to really screw herself over more and more as she embitters everyone there against her.

So, why the tearing down of the statues at the top of the ziggurats? It makes for a cool image, but what is Dany trying to accomplish here by destroying local images?

[Pelranius]

So, how far away is Pentos from Yunkai? I'm assuming Varys and Tyrion(preferably not in a crate) can travel there quickly by boat due to having money and not needing to cross the desert by foot. If it takes a week or two, that's not so bad, if it takes months, that's enough time for Dany to really screw herself over more and more as she embitters everyone there against her.

A couple thousand miles is my quick guestimate, so maybe a month? (But characters seem to move as fast as the plot demands).

So, why the tearing down of the statues at the top of the ziggurats? It makes for a cool image, but what is Dany trying to accomplish here by destroying local images?

Ego boost?

[Thanas]

So, why the tearing down of the statues at the top of the ziggurats? It makes for a cool image, but what is Dany trying to accomplish here by destroying local images?

Harpy = confederate flag.

[Napoleon the Clown]

She's probably trying to remove as many reminders of the old regime as possible, to show a new age has come. Whether or not this will turn out well for her remains to be seen.