This Warhammer: End Times thing (novel/setting spoilers)

[Alkaloid]

So, I hear there's a new Gotrek and Felix book released and since I loved the old Bill King pulp action books but was under whelmed by Nathan Longs efforts I jumped on a WH forum to see if it would be worth picking up. (Best G&F Book in years, by the way)

Anyway, what I discovered is a shitstorm of epic proportions going on because status quo is no longer god. I apply google to this shocking discovery and learn that apparently a whole bunch of important/powerful/influential/named characters/gods have been killed off, finally succeeded in their goals/ascended to a higher plain of existence, entire races/armies wiped out/retreated from the Old World, all apparently in preparation for a fairly major shift in the game format/style when the 9th edition rule book is released.

Can anyone that's actually paid attention to WH Fantasy in the last 5 or 6 years weigh in and confirm this is actually happening, or is this all just me reading way to much into what panicky 12 year olds write on the internet?

Seriously, Luthor Huss Possessed, Volkmar dead, Malekith the fucking Phoenix King? Tyrion becomes the avatar of Khaine and then dies fighting Malekith? Brettonia gone, Lizardmen gone, and Teclis is running around turning mortal heroes into the winds of magic/Order Gods or something?
Spoiler

Given the next G&F is apparently the last, money says Gotrek finds his doom while in the process of removing this Archon chaps head from the rest of him

[GuppyShark]

Yes.

That is all correct.

The entire Elven civil war and destruction of Ulthuan was just a ruse so Teclis could unmake the vortex and recruit his PlaneteersIncarnates.

[Grumman]

The fucking over factions left, right and center is confirmed. The degeneration of the entire setting into bubbles of reality that destroy all capacity for meaningful interaction between nations is unconfirmed.

[Elheru Aran]

As biased as it might be, 1d4chan's summary is fairly extensive and fairly well done as far as I can tell. It's an interesting read, anyway...

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

[Alkaloid]

Yeah, I read that. I'm kind of amazed really, I never though GW would have the balls to try something like this.

I have to say props to Teclis for being the least discriminatory motherfucker on the face of the planet, up to and including an ork in his super secret boy band. Not too keen on giving the whiniest bitch in the setting everything he's always wanted though, and you probably should have gone ahead and let your brother know before you arranged it.

[Elheru Aran]

The real question is how long GW can string this out. It's also possible they may go for it with 40K, since they already have all the awesome Forgeworld Primarchs and all. I suspect it's going to be a loooooooong time before they actually reboot everything in either universe, though...

[Grumman]

As biased as it might be, 1d4chan's summary is fairly extensive and fairly well done as far as I can tell. It's an interesting read, anyway...

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

One of the biggest lore bombs dropped in the event was the fact that the Warhammer Fantasy universe is not the first universe of Warhammer Fantasy that has existed; rather, Games Workshop applied the "Crisis On Infinite Earths" (google it if you aren't a /co/ type) with some Elder Scrolls elements and said that the gods of this universe were the survivors of the universe that came before it, which was consumed by Chaos and that this cycle of death and rebirth has been going on for awhile.

Great, now I hate it even more.

[Sgt_Artyom]

Why would they ruin a good thing? So many good stories had been coming out from the Black Library for WH Fantasy, especially Gotrek and Felix. Somehow they've gone from chasing the necromancer that screwed them over in the crazy undead siege to "The End Times"!? GW is just playing hell with the continuity of several series and for what reason I can't even begin to fathom.

[GuppyShark]

I am half convinced they're intentionally doing it to shrink the world map... for the convenience of Warhammer Total War.

[Grumman]

...for what reason I can't even begin to fathom.

Because they have already done possibly irreparable damage to their ability to monetise WHFB. Since they have no intention of actually taking advantage of the strengths of their manufacturing process - ideal for churning out hundreds of miniatures for cheap - they are instead amputating as much of the factions as they can so that what remains can be supported by their mediocre sales figures.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I can't help but admit to some schadenfreude at watching GW continue to spiral the drain. It's disappointing, of course, but at this point the cynic in me is just enjoying watching the train wreck unfold.

I was looking forward to the Total War adaptation of WHFB, but the Warhammer skin loses its point if the Warhammer it depicts isn't even Warhammer anymore. It'd be like playing a Star Trek game where the Federation has disbanded, the Klingons are extinct, and the Borg have just elected their first prime minister.

[Grumman]

...and the Borg have just elected their first prime minister.

...and then civil war breaks out over whether the first prime is 1 of 84,200 or 2 of 84,200.

[Dartzap]

Bloody 'ell. I didnt know Ward had left. As for all the fluff implosions...welp.

GW recently closed down the shop near me, much to the annoyance of many a nerd in the area.

[streetad]

I suspect the entire process is a way of sweeping away WFB as it currently exists, replacing it with a smaller-scale skirmish game, and maximising shelf-space for the 40k stuff that still sells in buckets.

It's a shame really; back in the depths of time when I used to play (to give you an idea how long ago this was, GW still had a sense of humour), WFB had by far the better rules and balance if the two games.

[GuppyShark]

It's a shame really; back in the depths of time when I used to play (to give you an idea how long ago this was, GW still had a sense of humour), WFB had by far the better rules and balance if the two games.

That is still the case actually, although describing a game as having 'better rules and balance' than 40k is damning with the faintest of praise.

[AniThyng]

I can't help but admit to some schadenfreude at watching GW continue to spiral the drain. It's disappointing, of course, but at this point the cynic in me is just enjoying watching the train wreck unfold.

I was looking forward to the Total War adaptation of WHFB, but the Warhammer skin loses its point if the Warhammer it depicts isn't even Warhammer anymore. It'd be like playing a Star Trek game where the Federation has disbanded, the Klingons are extinct, and the Borg have just elected their first prime minister.

I guess it's too much to hope for the total war adaptation will use the older setting...?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Who knows - they haven't released many details about it yet. Supposedly there's an announcement due out soon.

[Darksider]

Does this mean they're gonna advance 40k's plot too?

I'm going to sleep. Someone wake me up when they do that....

[Grumman]

Does this mean they're gonna advance 40k's plot too?

I'm going to sleep. Someone wake me up when they do that....

No, the rumour is that GW proper is going to start doing some Horus Heresy stuff. Because in the Grim Darkness of the 31st Millenium, there are only Space Marines.

[Elheru Aran]

Does this mean they're gonna advance 40k's plot too?

I'm going to sleep. Someone wake me up when they do that....

No, the rumour is that GW proper is going to start doing some Horus Heresy stuff. Because in the Grim Darkness of the 31st Millenium, there are only Space Marines.

They've *been* doing HH stuff, mainly through Forgeworld. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to go "OK, you can do Heresy stuff with regular Marines" and release another obscenely priced rulebook.

[Grumman]

No, the rumour is that GW proper is going to start doing some Horus Heresy stuff. Because in the Grim Darkness of the 31st Millenium, there are only Space Marines.

They've *been* doing HH stuff, mainly through Forgeworld.

That's why I said "GW proper". As in, not Forgeworld.

[Darth Tanner]

No, the rumour is that GW proper is going to start doing some Horus Heresy stuff. Because in the Grim Darkness of the 31st Millenium, there are only Space Marines.

They've *been* doing HH stuff, mainly through Forgeworld.

That's why I said "GW proper". As in, not Forgeworld.

Is Forgeworld not owned by Gamesworkshop?

[Sinewmire]

Does this mean they're gonna advance 40k's plot too?

I'm going to sleep. Someone wake me up when they do that....

Errrm, 13th Black Crusade? Huron Blackheart's fleet? Hive Fleet Behemoth? Ghazgkull in Octarius? Tau third sphere expansion? Mass necron awakening? Golden throne failing and Astronomicon flickering?

GW advance the clock every new edition.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Is Forgeworld not owned by Gamesworkshop?

In the same sense that the Star Wars EU was owned and operated by Lucasfilm. While 40K has (had) more carefully-planned canon, the Forgeworld stuff was always a sort of side thing for the hardcore enthusiasts, and had little to do with "40k proper" in a tabletop sense.

[Elheru Aran]

Is Forgeworld not owned by Gamesworkshop?

In the same sense that the Star Wars EU was owned and operated by Lucasfilm. While 40K has (had) more carefully-planned canon, the Forgeworld stuff was always a sort of side thing for the hardcore enthusiasts, and had little to do with "40k proper" in a tabletop sense.

Plus the models, while generally gorgeous (there are always exceptions) and highly cheesy rules-wise, are also fecking pricey. A Forgeworld-made squad of Imperial Guard from, say, Death Korps of Krieg run 39 pun'. These, by the way, are *not* cheesy, they are basically identical to ordinary Imperial Guard apart from a few special rules. That's 10 troopers, by the way. GW production equivalent, Armageddon Steel Legion, which can be easily painted or modded to play Death Korps... 20 pounds for 10 troopers. A box of 10 Cadians (your bog-standard IG unit) is 18 (wtf, used to be able to get 20 to a box for that price...). Again, the rules are very little different; games-wise the units are basically identical. But Forgeworld has close to a 100% mark-up for some resin and extra detailing.

That said, they are very nice for the folks who either a.) have more money than sense or b.) are into the painting/detailing stuff. They do also have some fairly exceptional and unique models, especially the Primarchs and Titans.

But ultimately they aren't really relevant to the standard tabletop crowd, and can be a distraction. Nobody wants to put their $200 model on the table and some yabbo knocks it off with their elbow. Never mind someone getting a lucky roll and taking it out first turn!

They've been trying harder to get into the tabletop genre with their Horus Heresy models and rule-sets. The Primarch models have been pretty popular... but I don't know much of anybody that has ever played the HH M30 games. Mostly they'll just do something like buying a Contemptor Dreadnought and putting it into their 40K army.