The Prince of Nothing

[Imperial Overlord]

A few years back a Canadian author by the name of R. Scott Bakker wrote a series called The Prince of Nothing, consisting of The Darkness That Comes Before, The Warrior Prophet, and The Thousandfold Thought. His Judging Eye, the first book of the Aspect-Emperor, a series which takes place 20 years later will be released shortly. As so many books out there are crap and Bakker's works are real gems, I'm going to shamelessly book pimp the series.

There are a number of loose parallels between the nations of Earwa, Bakker's world, and those of the Medieval Europe. On one level The Prince of Nothing is an account of the Holy War, an event roughly analogous to the First Crusade. Maithanet, the charismatic young shriah of the Thousand Temples, has called a Holy War. Instead of calling for the destruction of the blasphemous sorcerous Schools, he has instead called upon the Inrithi to go to war with the Fanim (who are somewhat similar to Muslims) and reclaim the conquered Inrithi lands including the birthplace of the Latter Prophet. This is utter madness as the Cishaurim sorcerer-priests stand with armies of the Fanim, unless somehow one or more Schools can be convinced to aid the Holy War.

The Inrithi faithful muster in the hundreds of thousands and within their numbers are both the pious and the ambitious. The battered Nansur Empire intends to use the Holy War to reclaim the territories it has lost to the Fanim over the years, using its possession of a School and the martial genius of Crown Prince Ikurei Conphas to extract concessions and manipulate events. That's the surface.

Two thousand years ago, a School was corrupted by the knowledge and legacy of the alien Inchoroi and unleashed the Apocalypse. The No-God, a product of Inchoroi science known as the Tekne, took command of the Weapon Races created by the Inchoroi and destroyed the nations of the Ancient North and almost exterminated humanity before the No-God was destroyed and the Consult scattered. To most, the Consult are an ancient horror, long since destroyed and irrelevant. Only the Mandate, the last surviving School of the Ancient North, struggles in vain to find them and destroy them.

The Consult has not been destroyed. It has agents almost everywhere and has created new abominations using the Tekne. The time might soon arrive when they are able to recreate the No-God. It is manipulating the courts of the Earwa and the Holy War to serve its own purposes, purposes that will inevitably lead to the extinction of the human race. Into these open and hidden wars step three individuals.

Anasurimbor Kelhus, a man raised by the secret Dunyain sect in a hidden stronghold. His exiled father has summoned him with sorcerous dream to the Fanim lands and he has been cast out by the Dunyain. The product of two thousand years of breeding for intellect and reflexes and a merciless training program designed to maximize human potential, Kelhus is easily able to manipulate most and has abilities that seem to be almost superhuman. He intends to join the Holy War while claiming to be a prince of distant land.

Cnaiur, breaker-of-horses-and-most-violent-of-all-men, is a chieftain among the feared Scylvendi tribes. He seduced and manipulated by Kelhus's father and desires revenge. His knowledge of warfare and of the Three Seas makes him invaluable to Kelhus, but his familiarity with Dunyain ways makes him dangerous and extremely difficult to manipulate.

Drusus Achamian is a Mandate Schoolman and spy and every night he relives the horrors of the Apocalypse in his dreams. He has been sent to keep watch on the Holy War and in doing so he makes two horrifying discovers. The first is the continuing existence of the Consult and their development of the Tekne. The second is that an Anasurimbor has returned, in fulfillment of the ancient Celemian Prophecy that states an Anasurimbor will return at the "end of the world." Kelhus is the harbringer of the Second Apocalypse, but is the doom or the world or its salvation?

[Guardsman Bass]

I'll second the pimping - this is a fantastic series. Not only are the characters generally well-drawn (and like all well-created characters, you can get inside their heads while still utterly despising them), but the realism and plot are well-done, and the magic system both has a good counter and is unusually well-drawn (it's the type of thing that will engender debates over the nature of how it exactly works; it has a philosophical component that is rooted in the nature of the world that Bakker creates).

It's definitely one of the most fun series to discuss and analyze. I think a good number of Martin fans will like this, although it also appeals to anyone who likes fantasy with a degree of realism for the time period (Bakker draws heavily from the Classical Mediterranean civilizations, although they aren't direct parallels).

[Guardsman Bass]

The background of the story (i.e., the Inchoroi, the No-God, and so forth) is especially fascinating. I can sketch it out for anyone who is curious:

[spoiler="Prince of Nothing]Test, will edit in a second if functional[/spoiler]

[Imperial Overlord]

I'll second the pimping - this is a fantastic series. Not only are the characters generally well-drawn (and like all well-created characters, you can get inside their heads while still utterly despising them), but the realism and plot are well-done, and the magic system both has a good counter and is unusually well-drawn (it's the type of thing that will engender debates over the nature of how it exactly works; it has a philosophical component that is rooted in the nature of the world that Bakker creates).

The distinct types of magic and their hidden common roots and the metaphysical implications of sorcery are certainly one of Bakker's best touch. Anagogic and Gnostic sorcery are distinctly different branches of sorcery, but have far more in common than the mysterious metaphysics of the Psukhe.

It's definitely one of the most fun series to discuss and analyze. I think a good number of Martin fans will like this, although it also appeals to anyone who likes fantasy with a degree of realism for the time period (Bakker draws heavily from the Classical Mediterranean civilizations, although they aren't direct parallels).

One of Bakker's strengths is that the civilizations feel distinct and exotic. Nansur may be a rough analogue to Byzantium, but that breaks down under closer examination. The fictional civilizations are distinct entities of their own, informed and inspired by their real counterparts but actual entities in their own right. Bakker has an excellent touch with the little details. The Nansur Army Over Standard being nicknamed "The Concubine" because it is kept in a shrine in the Exalt-General's quarters, for example. Or selling peaches.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I love Martin, and I hated, hated, hated this series, mainly because I absolutely could not stand Kellhus. His discovery of water in the desert and "Writer's fiat says that the starved-out remanants of the Inrithi beat superior Muslim-analogue army by, uh, conviction" finally sealed it for me, but it was midway through the first book that this irritating Ubermensch really did the series in for me. Why read the books when his victory was declared from practically the first page? He's not interesting, he manipulates everyone he meets instantly with his mind-control powers, beats the greatest warriors in the land in single combat days after leaving his lifelong monastic existence, and now is the most powerful magic-user too. Joy. Compare this to Martin, whose series rests on dozens of extremely flawed people who have a very real chance of dying or being turned to evil paths- or good paths- and there is really no comparison.

I would read it if that arrogant General/ Prince guy had survived and won the battle in a twist ending. He was actually vaguely interesting to readf about. Kellhus is just a bore.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I'm a massive fan of the series, after being indoctrinated in its mysteries (and the Malazan books of the Fallen, and the Black Company) by Imperial Overlord . It's one of my favourite fantasy series ever, along with the aforementioned series, Tolkien, Rowling, Zelzany, Dan Simmons, Asimov, Martin, Vance, etc'. And I've reread the series more times than I have the Silmarillion or HP5, to put it one way .

I love Martin, and I hated, hated, hated this series, mainly because I absolutely could not stand Kellhus. His discovery of water in the desert and "Writer's fiat says that the starved-out remanants of the Inrithi beat superior Muslim-analogue army by, uh, conviction" finally sealed it for me, but it was midway through the first book that this irritating Ubermensch really did the series in for me. Why read the books when his victory was declared from practically the first page? He's not interesting, he manipulates everyone he meets instantly with his mind-control powers, beats the greatest warriors in the land in single combat days after leaving his lifelong monastic existence, and now is the most powerful magic-user too. Joy. Compare this to Martin, whose series rests on dozens of extremely flawed people who have a very real chance of dying or being turned to evil paths- or good paths- and there is really no comparison.

I would read it if that arrogant General/ Prince guy had survived and won the battle in a twist ending. He was actually vaguely interesting to readf about. Kellhus is just a bore.

Kellhus "loses" multiple times in the first book (he gets beaten by the Non-man for example, would otherwise starve to death due to his Monastery not understanding what "To scale is" in geography [well, lack of maps], and loses in the second book until the end Spoiler

(He did not know what to do, he was in a dead end)

. And the ending of the third book shows that [SPOILER! Seriously, spoils the end of the series] Spoiler

The Crucimfixion broke him. He's fucking insane, by Dunyain standards as well.

. He's very smart, and as he gets more information he gets more dangerous, but he's not a Gary Sue or writer's fiat. (Well, except for Spoiler

starving men winning by baby throwing

. Although it did work kinda for the Fremen, but they weren't starving )

[Imperial Overlord]

I love Martin, and I hated, hated, hated this series, mainly because I absolutely could not stand Kellhus. His discovery of water in the desert and "Writer's fiat says that the starved-out remanants of the Inrithi beat superior Muslim-analogue army by, uh, conviction"

He used a real water finding technique he just disguised with religious trappings. It was a calculated move, not writer's fiat. As for the victory you speak of, the Inrithi had no where to run and they had been whipped into a religious frenzy while the Fanim were spooked before the battle. Morale is extremely important and in that area the Inrithi were totally superior. Sun-Tzu warned to always give your enemy a place to run so that they have an alternative other than fighting to the last man. The Inrithi suffered heavy casualties but kept on fighting. When they inflicted reverses on the Fanim, they broke. Morale, conviction, won and lost that battle.

He's not interesting, he manipulates everyone he meets instantly with his mind-control powers,

I found him interesting and his powers of manipulation had definite limits. Even Saubon, who he had a great deal of influence over, would only go so far and men like Conphas and Cnaiur had much lower limits.

beats the greatest warriors in the land in single combat days after leaving his lifelong monastic existence,

He's not a sixteen year old peasant boy picking up a sword. He's fifteen years younger than Cnaiur and the product of a breeding and conditioning program designed to to reach the highest levels of human potential.

Compare this to Martin, whose series rests on dozens of extremely flawed people who have a very real chance of dying or being turned to evil paths- or good paths- and there is really no comparison.

Kelhous is extraordinarily capable, but he's not the only character and he's certainly imperfect, although his schemes require him to maintain an air of infallibility. Proyas, Cnaiur, Saubon, Esmenet, and Akka are all important and obviously flawed characters.

I would read it if that arrogant General/ Prince guy had survived and won the battle in a twist ending. He was actually vaguely interesting to readf about.

Conphas was certainly an interesting brilliant, narcissistic sociopath. Bakker has said he was the funnest character to write.

[Ericxihn]

"Writer's fiat says that the starved-out remanants of the Inrithi beat superior Muslim-analogue army by, uh, conviction" finally sealed it for me, but it was midway through the first book that this irritating Ubermensch really did the series in for me.

Actually something like that actually happened; religious fervor is pretty powerful. The Holy War, at least in the beginning is a battle by battle analogue of the First Crusade, except with sorcerers blowing things up and being turned into salt, a hyperrational version of the Nietzschean ubermensch and funky crow sex.

I think the best summary of the backstory I've heard goes something like this: Imagine if at the end of of Lord of the Rings, Frodo failed to destroy the Ring and Sauron overruns Aragorn and Minas Tirith and eventually all of Gondor, Rohan and all of western Middle Earth and the Elves leave. Gandalf manages to escape, though, and convinces the Haradrim and the Easterlings to rise up against Sauron. They manage to defeat Sauron, but it turns out that half the world is overrun by Orcs and Sauron's eventually going to come back.

[Guardsman Bass]

I love Martin, and I hated, hated, hated this series, mainly because I absolutely could not stand Kellhus. His discovery of water in the desert and "Writer's fiat says that the starved-out remanants of the Inrithi beat superior Muslim-analogue army by, uh, conviction"

He used a real water finding technique he just disguised with religious trappings. It was a calculated move, not writer's fiat. As for the victory you speak of, the Inrithi had no where to run and they had been whipped into a religious frenzy while the Fanim were spooked before the battle. Morale is extremely important and in that area the Inrithi were totally superior. Sun-Tzu warned to always give your enemy a place to run so that they have an alternative other than fighting to the last man. The Inrithi suffered heavy casualties but kept on fighting. When they inflicted reverses on the Fanim, they broke. Morale, conviction, won and lost that battle.

Definitely. One important thing to remember, too, is that since Kellhus is extremely good at manipulating other people, almost any perception of him other than from his own viewpoint or that of Cnaiur is almost certainly an inaccurate view of what he is thinking and feeling. He's very tricky.

He's not interesting, he manipulates everyone he meets instantly with his mind-control powers,

I found him interesting and his powers of manipulation had definite limits. Even Saubon, who he had a great deal of influence over, would only go so far and men like Conphas and Cnaiur had much lower limits.

I'd hardly call them "mind-control powers" either; he and his ilk are just extremely good at reading emotions and people from facial, vocal, and other bodily expressions, combined with an enormous deal of natural intelligence, and conditioning that means that they have almost total control over their bodily appearance (and especially their facial expressions). That has his limits, as you mention; when people know what he is (and some do), it's much harder for him to manipulate them.

beats the greatest warriors in the land in single combat days after leaving his lifelong monastic existence,

He's not a sixteen year old peasant boy picking up a sword. He's fifteen years younger than Cnaiur and the product of a breeding and conditioning program designed to to reach the highest levels of human potential.

Indeed. It's implied that he's a good fighter (and a smart one). It doesn't stop him from being beaten; witness
Spoiler

the insane Non-Men sorceror in the wilderness almost kicking his ass.

Compare this to Martin, whose series rests on dozens of extremely flawed people who have a very real chance of dying or being turned to evil paths- or good paths- and there is really no comparison.

Kelhous is extraordinarily capable, but he's not the only character and he's certainly imperfect, although his schemes require him to maintain an air of infallibility. Proyas, Cnaiur, Saubon, Esmenet, and Akka are all important and obviously flawed characters.

Indeed. Again, it's important to remember that when other characters see him, they're largely only seeing what he's letting them see, so he usually appears good in their eyes. Which doesn't stop him from getting fucked up when something catches up to him; witness the end of Book Two, when
Spoiler

he gets hung up on the circumfix because they find out that he has lied about being the Prince of Atrithaum - which is where the title of the trilogy comes; he really is a "Prince of Nothing", woven from his own lies and manipulations.

I would read it if that arrogant General/ Prince guy had survived and won the battle in a twist ending. He was actually vaguely interesting to readf about.

Conphas was certainly an interesting brilliant, narcissistic sociopath. Bakker has said he was the funnest character to write.

It was definitely interesting to read Kellhus's examinations of him. I particularly like how Kellhus describes the difficultly in manipulating him arising from
Spoiler

his extraordinary confidence in his own judgment and almost pathological disregard for what others think about him.

[fgalkin]

The series lost me about halfway through the first book. It's well-written, it's just that the books seem to focus a bit more on the exoticism factor than actual plot advancement (although you could tell that the writer's getting us somewhere, just not very quickly). So, I kinda wandered off and never came back. Although, I intend to finish the series some day, I did buy all three books, after all.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Imperial Overlord]

The second and third books are faster paced than the first one.

[Drooling Iguana]

Wait, so it's a fantasy trilogy that actually ended after three books? I'm going to have to look into this.

[mr friendly guy]

According to wiki the author has a second trilogy after. Not that I have read the series, but if IO recommends it, I might one day look into it.

[Imperial Overlord]

According to wiki the author has a second trilogy after. Not that I have read the series, but if IO recommends it, I might one day look into it.

The first book of the new series will be out in early 2009 and I'm chomping at the bit. It takes place 20 years after the first and presumably deals with the start of the Second Apocalypse.

[Luzifer's right hand]

I enjoyed the series well enough, however it is not among my favourite fantasy series, mostly because there is only one likeable character(Achamian) and I'm not that much into philosophy.
Bakkers SF book Neuropath was better imho.