THE OotS Thread, Part IV.

[Crazedwraith]

Can't Roy follow his original plan. Kill the vampire lady and null her vote?

[Rogue 9]

Evil Overlord List, #197: I will explain to my Legions of Terror that guns are ranged weapons and swords are not. Anyone who attempts to throw a sword at the hero or club him with a gun will be summarily executed.

[Simon_Jester]

I've never liked that one. Doesn't make enough allowances for strange tactical situations. Like this one- if Roy could physically run up and stab, he would, and it's not like he was going to get another chance to run up and stab later.

[Ralin]

I've never liked that one. Doesn't make enough allowances for strange tactical situations. Like this one- if Roy could physically run up and stab, he would, and it's not like he was going to get another chance to run up and stab later.

It's not the sort of joke you're supposed to take very seriously.

[Jub]

I've never liked that one. Doesn't make enough allowances for strange tactical situations. Like this one- if Roy could physically run up and stab, he would, and it's not like he was going to get another chance to run up and stab later.

There's also the fact that you can throw a sword.

[Simon_Jester]

I've never liked that one. Doesn't make enough allowances for strange tactical situations. Like this one- if Roy could physically run up and stab, he would, and it's not like he was going to get another chance to run up and stab later.

It's not the sort of joke you're supposed to take very seriously.

Eh.

Put this way. Most of the entries on the Evil Overlord List are things that, while a joke, represent actual stupidity that appears often in fiction. Thus, the phrasing of the List entry is funny in its own right, and also serves to highlight "why do they do such a stupid thing?"

So when a List entry makes fun of a thing that isn't stupid, or is so often not-stupid that you can't identify it as "stupid..." it's not a good List entry, in my opinion.

[Ralin]

Eh.

Put this way. Most of the entries on the Evil Overlord List are things that, while a joke, represent actual stupidity that appears often in fiction. Thus, the phrasing of the List entry is funny in its own right, and also serves to highlight "why do they do such a stupid thing?"

So when a List entry makes fun of a thing that isn't stupid, or is so often not-stupid that you can't identify it as "stupid..." it's not a good List entry, in my opinion.

Goons using their useless guns as makeshift clubs against Chuck Norris or Arnold is a stupid thing that appears in fiction. The situations where using a sword as a projectile is a good idea are rare enough that it's worth having a rule against it.

[Simon_Jester]

Thing is, goons pistol-whipping someone they're intending to knock unconscious and kidnap is a not-stupid thing that appears in fiction too. Throwing swords is, admittedly, less often a good idea, although with other melee weapons like knives, axes, and spears it makes more sense.

Most of the Evil Overlord List rules are against things that are almost always a bad idea, such as abolishing all your conventional military forces as soon as you take away the heroes' superweapon, on the grounds that the owner of the superweapon is invincible, even though someone else used to own the superweapon and you were able to take it from them.

I've never liked #197 precisely because while it reflects a sometimes-stupid trope, it is a categorical prohibition on a list of things that are supposed to be categorical prohibitions, even though it isn't necessarily in the evil overlord's interest to categorically prohibit the activity. That could get in the way in some important situations.

Such as the minions of evil being able to comply with orders like "And try to take them alive if it is reasonably possible" or "He's getting away! Kill him!"

[Lord Revan]

actually using rifles as clubs if the enemy is too close or you've ran out of ammo is a valid and viable close combat tactic, doing so instead of shooting your target when shooting is possible and viable is not however a valid.

What Simon dislikes about that rule and what I dislike about it is that in effort to correct one stupid thing you drived headlong into another. Lets the take rifle for example what's the minons suppose to do if the hero is too close to effectively shoot a rifle (say within 1m-2m of said minion), drop the rifle and pull out a knife, sword, club or what ever melee weapon they carry, giving the hero more then enough time to get the upper hand.

[Simon_Jester]

Also, as noted, minions of the evil overlord frequently have to try to take someone alive (much easier to take someone alive by clubbing them than by shooting them), or to stop a fleeing enemy (much easier to stop someone twenty feet away by throwing something than by stabbing them with it).

All things considered, I would advocate for an Evil Overlord resolution like this:

#197a.
My Legions of Terror will carry different types of weapons (melee and ranged, heavy and light) so that they are prepared for a variety of different situations.

Thus, the heroes cannot effortlessly neutralize my legions using a trivial choice of terrain and tactics, such as might be anticipated by my five-year-old child adviser.

#197b.
My Legions of Terror will be trained in combined arms tactics, and will use the appropriate weapons and techniques for the appropriate situations. Soldiers who form a tightly packed phalanx in the middle of a forest, who stand in the open without seeking cover when under fire from heavy artillery, who engage in melee when ranged combat is appropriate, or vice versa, are not useful to my evil plans. Should such ill-conceived tactics be used, and should the responsible parties survive their immediate idiocy, they will be used for target practice by any other survivors whom they nearly got killed.

#197c.
Use of reanimated corpses of soldiers killed by idiot-tactics as execution squads for surviving idiot-officers is encouraged where possible.

[Crazedwraith]

So that comic has updated again. Characters other than Roy? This is madness.

[Ralin]

Shouldn't V's familiar be able to use V's Spellcraft ranks?

[Jub]

Shouldn't V's familiar be able to use V's Spellcraft ranks?

The rules have been bent and broken for a comedy bit before, plus some DMs might consider the rank sharing to be a special ability and have it shut off if the Wizard is more than a mile from their familiar. It's not in the rules, but it could easily be a campaign house rule or come up as a result of simply skimming said rules.

[Simon_Jester]

I find the image of the rats trying to take down Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator amusing, given that Bloodfeast has from their point of view basically all the hit points.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Looking things over, Blackwing would need Use Magic Device. He'd need to emulate an Int of 14, then make a DC 27 (minimum) check to use the scroll properly. Also, UMD is cross-class for Wizards, so the odds of V having bothered to take any ranks are... abysmal. Of course, even if V had max ranks (V is maybe, what, level 15 at this point?) Blackwing is unlikely to have the needed modifiers to pass a DC 27 or higher check. 9 ranks assuming V decided to keep UMD maxed out and is at level 15-16. No modifiers to that from skill synergy, no bonuses from items. Charisma of familiars isn't anything special...

Even if Blackwing somehow had enough of a bonus to a UMD check to successfully cast the scroll, he can always voluntarily fail the roll. And, naturally, there's no good reason to not let an untrained sucker "attempt" a UMD check and automatically fail it. It'd be like a knowledge roll, or a sleight of hand roll. They can certainly try, but success isn't possible.

[Ralin]

Looking things over, Blackwing would need Use Magic Device. He'd need to emulate an Int of 14, then make a DC 27 (minimum) check to use the scroll properly. Also, UMD is cross-class for Wizards, so the odds of V having bothered to take any ranks are... abysmal. Of course, even if V had max ranks (V is maybe, what, level 15 at this point?) Blackwing is unlikely to have the needed modifiers to pass a DC 27 or higher check. 9 ranks assuming V decided to keep UMD maxed out and is at level 15-16. No modifiers to that from skill synergy, no bonuses from items. Charisma of familiars isn't anything special...

Ability modifier would be relatively minor compared to full ranks at that level.

That said, okay I remembered wrong about it being keyed off Spellcraft. UMD is a different story, since familiars apparently can't automatically use scrolls like wands or whatever.

[FaxModem1]

Now, there are two ways to interpret that last comic. The way I think its meant to be presented is that Bloodwing purposely rolled a critical failure and the spell backfired horribly, creating the explosion. The other interpretation is that the spells are written in Explosive runes making another hit, and thereby blowing up the room, which has been in-character for V. The second interpretation is the one I thought was going on, but the dialogue supports the first.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Looking things over, Blackwing would need Use Magic Device. He'd need to emulate an Int of 14, then make a DC 27 (minimum) check to use the scroll properly. Also, UMD is cross-class for Wizards, so the odds of V having bothered to take any ranks are... abysmal. Of course, even if V had max ranks (V is maybe, what, level 15 at this point?) Blackwing is unlikely to have the needed modifiers to pass a DC 27 or higher check. 9 ranks assuming V decided to keep UMD maxed out and is at level 15-16. No modifiers to that from skill synergy, no bonuses from items. Charisma of familiars isn't anything special...

Ability modifier would be relatively minor compared to full ranks at that level.

That said, okay I remembered wrong about it being keyed off Spellcraft. UMD is a different story, since familiars apparently can't automatically use scrolls like wands or whatever.

Cross-class skills are capped at (lvl+3)/2. They also cost 2 points each, and Wizards aren't the greatest skill monkey as they only get 2+Int. Assuming V started at 18 and increased Int every level, we're looking at around 20 points or so in Int. That's +5, for a total of 7 points per level. V doesn't have much use for UMD, as Wizards have probably the biggest spell list of any class. When it comes to cross-class skills, modifiers are an enormous boon.

Regardless, Blackwing could have intentionally failed the roll, even if V has ranks sufficient to allow him a chance at cast a 4th level spell.

[Ralin]

Cross-class skills are capped at (lvl+3)/2. They also cost 2 points each, and Wizards aren't the greatest skill monkey as they only get 2+Int. Assuming V started at 18 and increased Int every level, we're looking at around 20 points or so in Int. That's +5, for a total of 7 points per level. V doesn't have much use for UMD, as Wizards have probably the biggest spell list of any class. When it comes to cross-class skills, modifiers are an enormous boon.

That was referring to my previous mistaken belief that using a scroll keyed off of Spellcraft. I thought that would be clear from context.

In any case, I was wrong and this is a tangent.

[LadyTevar]

It was a spell for something that wouldn't help them. Therefore, Bloodwing deliberately mis-read the scroll, fully hoping for the "Now It Explodes" backlash.

[Rogue 9]

1021 is up. Spoiler

Dollars to doughnuts Vaarsuvius is going to come to the chamber and disintegrate the new High Priest of Hel on sight. And then all hell breaks loose.

[Dass.Kapital]

"I'm a Wizard, Harry!"

[Rogue 9]

1022 is up.

[Highlord Laan]

If OotS was the type to use profanity, Roy would have tossed an "and fuck you, too." at the end of that.

[Rogue 9]

1023 is up. They're coming out fairly rapidly lately.