hulk vs godzilla

[Jonathanos]

Godzilla loses this badly. His durability is nowhere near the Hulk's. Watch the latest Godzilla movie. Missles were breaking through Godzilla's armor. The Hulk laughs at the military's arsenal.

That Godzilla is Godzilla only in name. No one considers that the REAL Godzilla from the old Japanese flicks--those films being the Godzilla everyone refers to.

That was an awful, awful film BTW.

If you think I'm referring to the Broderick movie, you're mistaken. I recall Godzilla being reduced to a skeletal husk in the very first movie rather easily.

[Jonathanos]

The general point, Jonathanos, is you are presenting a no-math mentality, while handwaving the low points of Hulk away. If you want to win a debate, you had better be able to quantify these events as well as referencing them. If you do not think this is worth that amount of effort, find a less intensive hobby.

Wait, it's expected for someone to start employing actual math and physics in reference to these characters? That's silly.

Me, I know next to nothing of either Hulk or Godzilla. Though it occours to me if Godzilla doesn't pull off a quick kill, both will gradually become more and more powerful over the course of the fight. In which case the real loser is Tokyo.

He won't pull off a quick kill. The Hulk has withstood nuclear detonations multiple times. This is not high-end portrayals for the Hulk. If we accept the gamma bomb as being no different from any other nuclear device--ignoring the many times that high doses of gamma radiation often causes the Hulk to revert to Banner and realizing the gamma bomb is designed to have a greater gamma output than other nukes--then we have to regard that as a LOW-end portrayal for the Hulk as he's survived nukes several times.

Godzilla fought the Avengers to a standstill? So has the Hulk--several times. On more than one occasion, facing off against four of their most powerful members singlehandedly. So if this is Godzilla's high point (it most certainly is not the Hulk's), then at best we have a stalemate.

[SirNitram]

The general point, Jonathanos, is you are presenting a no-math mentality, while handwaving the low points of Hulk away. If you want to win a debate, you had better be able to quantify these events as well as referencing them. If you do not think this is worth that amount of effort, find a less intensive hobby.

Wait, it's expected for someone to start employing actual math and physics in reference to these characters? That's silly.

Then get the fuck out of this forum, you slime-encrusted fanwhore. Read the graphic at the top: SCIENCE is there. Prominantly. Use it or fuck off. We'll have none of your Stupid here.

[Jonathanos]

How vague. Not to mention chock-a-lotta-full of stupidities which defy science. Perhaps you'll be able to quantify a few of these for this debate instead of just mentioning in passing.

Nope because I am not trying to use the Hulk's highest feats for his normal portrayal. It's not that common for his strength to reach that level so he wouldn't do so against Godzilla.

You say they defy science? Funny. Doesn't Godzilla? Either accept that or don't bother debating comics and sci-fi.

Jonathan: That's high-end. Enduring nuclear detonations--which the Hulk has done several times and has been stated to have taken them without a scratch--is not. Lifting a mountain--another item the Hulk has done on several occasions--is not.

Sir NitramFunny how you fail to reference the issues, or even provide more specifics.

How about reading the thread. The specifics are there.

Jonathanos: Grey Mode as you call isn't that much weaker than green mode, contrary to what you seem to think. In fact, he has beaten a few opponents more easily than his green counterpart. For example, the Blob and Samson. And at his weakest point during the day, the grey Hulk's skin could not be penetrated by a missle as Godzilla's armor was in Godzilla 2000. Please note that this is NOT the Broderick movie.

Sir Nitram: If you bring up the new movies again, I will be forced to create a Netheril vs. Hulk thread to air out your stupidities.

I'll tell you what. Take the juvenile taunt and put a point in its place. Provide me with a list of Godzilla's feats in the movies. Be sure to quantify and make certain absolutely nothing defies science.

Oh, wait. Both the Hulk and Godzilla defy science. Debate's over.

[SirNitram]

Someone's too stupid to understand 'Suspension of disbelief'...

[Jonathanos]

Nitram's hit the nail on the head. Like most of these debates I've observed and participated in with comic/anime/manga fanwhores (distinguished by normal fans because of the dishoensty and idiocy displayed) they refuse to do the analysis, yet act and discuss the topic as if they did (And know what they're talking about.) Moreover, challenging them to produce valid calculations or numbers (which would assist in debating the topic) is near-impossible.

Though to be fair, if the Hulk side CAN produce the numbers, the Godzilla side should as well. (just a warning to the 'Zilla side.) What numbers DOES the godzilla side have?

Oh look. Another juvenile insult.

There's no need for mathematical analysis of comic feats. Several times, the Hulk has withstood nuclear detonations. Can Godzilla? Yes or no? If not, his durability is lower than the Hulk's. This is not dishonest nor idiocy. This is simply the way it is.

Can you back up Godzilla or is insults the extent of your ability?

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh look. Another juvenile insult.

Correction. An insult coupled with the tearing down of your so called argument (which largely comprises vague references and a no-math mentality)

There's no need for mathematical analysis of comic feats. Several times, the Hulk has withstood nuclear detonations. Can Godzilla? Yes or no? If not, his durability is lower than the Hulk's. This is not dishonest nor idiocy. This is simply the way it is.

Spoken like a true comic fanwhore who cannot apply even the slightest hint of logic to a debate, but must try to "minimize" the issue so his feeble brain won't be bothered with actual analysis.

Well then Einstein, since you think its so simple, tell me the yield of the nukes involved, the number, the distance at which they detonated, and the approximate energy from each detonation the Hulk absorbed (to say nothing of whether or not they were simultaneous/near simultaneous or staggered detonations.)

Simply saying "thats the way it is" is not proof, asshole. Your "example" is so incredibly vague that it tells us nothing. If the hulk repeatedly shrugs off half a dozen 50 kiloton nukes from 10 meters off over a period of 20 seconds, t hat does NOT mean he would also survive the point blank detonation of a 20 megaton nuke.

This is precisely WHY quantifying incidents (which if you bothered to read the fucking site, asshole, you would realize) is important in a debate. It gives us something to COMPARE in order to figure out who wins. Simply saying "We see him shrug off a nuke" does not tell us anything.

Can you back up Godzilla or is insults the extent of your ability?

Why should I be bothered to counter your vague, unquantified references, should I even care? My problem is with your refusal to apply suspension of disbelief or rational analysis.

[Jonathanos]

Then get the fuck out of this forum, you slime-encrusted fanwhore. Read the graphic at the top: SCIENCE is there. Prominantly. Use it or fuck off. We'll have none of your Stupid here.

Someone's too stupid to understand 'Suspension of disbelief'...

Wow, did someone ever contradict himself. First it's "use science and math" but now it's "don't you understand suspension of disbelief?"

Does this mean you get an insulting title under your name?

[Colonel Olrik]

Wow, did someone ever contradict himself. First it's "use science and math" but now it's "don't you understand suspension of disbelief?"

Does this mean you get an insulting title under your name?

Using math in a scifi debate means applying the scientific method to what happens in the show/comic/whatever, it doesn't allow you to say that, if both shows are scientifically impossible, they can't be compared using a rigorous analysis. The main site is about ST and SW. Read it some day.

Speaking of titles, you're close to getting one yourself.

[SirNitram]

Then get the fuck out of this forum, you slime-encrusted fanwhore. Read the graphic at the top: SCIENCE is there. Prominantly. Use it or fuck off. We'll have none of your Stupid here.

Someone's too stupid to understand 'Suspension of disbelief'...

Wow, did someone ever contradict himself. First it's "use science and math" but now it's "don't you understand suspension of disbelief?"

Does this mean you get an insulting title under your name?

I see you don't actually understand what you quoted, little boy.

Suspension Of Disbelief is fundamental to scientific debate of sci-fi and other genres. It means we don't question how, we merely quantify events.

Of course, 'holding energy' is ridiculous and impossible to quantify. Unless you mean holding energy like a copper wire can, in which case it's not a notable feat.

[Jonathanos]

Correction. An insult coupled with the tearing down of your so called argument (which largely comprises vague references and a no-math mentality)

Another correction: An insult coupled with avoiding my request for references of Godzilla's durability.

Spoken like a true comic fanwhore who cannot apply even the slightest hint of logic to a debate, but must try to "minimize" the issue so his feeble brain won't be bothered with actual analysis.

Well then Einstein, since you think its so simple, tell me the yield of the nukes involved, the number, the distance at which they detonated, and the approximate energy from each detonation the Hulk absorbed (to say nothing of whether or not they were simultaneous/near simultaneous or staggered detonations.)

Simply saying "thats the way it is" is not proof, asshole. Your "example" is so incredibly vague that it tells us nothing. If the hulk repeatedly shrugs off half a dozen 50 kiloton nukes from 10 meters off over a period of 20 seconds, t hat does NOT mean he would also survive the point blank detonation of a 20 megaton nuke.

This is precisely WHY quantifying incidents (which if you bothered to read the fucking site, asshole, you would realize) is important in a debate. It gives us something to COMPARE in order to figure out who wins. Simply saying "We see him shrug off a nuke" does not tell us anything.

Simply saying "Godzilla wins" tells us less. At least I'm giving examples of why the Hulk would win in my opinion. You, on the other hand, are doing nothing but insulting and adding nothing to the discussion.

One blast was a 17 kiloton detonation. This occurred many moons ago. It kayoes the Hulk but the Hulk has grown stronger since then. He was riding the bomb and leapt two seconds before it detonated. That's as specific as it gets in the comic. There is no way to quantify it so I'm not going to even bother attempting.

One was a detonation powerful enough to destroy all of Sydney, Australia. The Hulk was right on top of the Cobalt Man when he exploded. It is described as a nuclear detonation. That's it.

Can you provide examples of Godzilla's durability? What can he take? What can he not?

Why should I be bothered to counter your vague, unquantified references, should I even care? My problem is with your refusal to apply suspension of disbelief or rational analysis.

The hell are you talking about? I suspend disbelief. I accept the characters for what they are and don't question its veracity by saying they have to be analyzed scientifically.

I have also asked repeatedly for examples of Godzilla's durability so that I can compare the two. You can't or won't provide? Then you add nothing to the discussion.

[Jonathanos]

Using math in a scifi debate means applying the scientific method to what happens in the show/comic/whatever, it doesn't allow you to say that, if both shows are scientifically impossible, they can't be compared using a rigorous analysis.

It's impossible to calculate due to the comic not going into every minute detail. Therefore it's pointless.

All I want is some references for Godzilla's durability. So many seem to think Godzilla is Hulk-level or beyond in durability. Then provide references. Is this so hard for the entire lot of you? Can all of you together not manage to make a list of what Godzilla typically withstands in his movies? Is the extent of your debating talents "Godzilla wins"?

The main site is about ST and SW. Read it some day.

Nah. Not that interested.

Speaking of titles, you're close to getting one yourself.

How many people on this thread have said nothing more than "Godzilla wins?" I've said "Hulk wins" and have provided several references of what the Hulk has done--and did not even touch high-end feats--to back my assessment. I then ask for references for Godzilla's durability since it's believed that Godzilla is more durable than I portray him. In response I get "quantify the Hulk's feats to the most infinitesimal decimal." Oh, and a lot of juvenile insults.

So let me take a guess at the title-- Is it "Poster Whose Request For References Was Ignored More Times Than Any Other?"

[Jonathanos]

I see you don't actually understand what you quoted, little boy.

Suspension Of Disbelief is fundamental to scientific debate of sci-fi and other genres. It means we don't question how, we merely quantify events.

Of course, 'holding energy' is ridiculous and impossible to quantify. Unless you mean holding energy like a copper wire can, in which case it's not a notable feat.

And again, there's no way to quantify these things. The author didn't think it so terribly important to calculate to the most minute of details. Holding energy is ridiculous. The only reason it was brought up in this topic was because Ghost Rider said I was using the Hulk's "ultra high" feats and I clearly was not.

Once more: what are Godzilla's durability feats that place him at Hulk level? It's been some time since I've seen some of the Godzilla Vs. movies so please enlighten me. Unlike some on this board, I don't have to be right. And I don't have to fling insulting names around to impress others.

Give me some examples of Godzilla's typical durability.

[SirNitram]

I see you don't actually understand what you quoted, little boy.

Suspension Of Disbelief is fundamental to scientific debate of sci-fi and other genres. It means we don't question how, we merely quantify events.

Of course, 'holding energy' is ridiculous and impossible to quantify. Unless you mean holding energy like a copper wire can, in which case it's not a notable feat.

And again, there's no way to quantify these things.

You know, if you weren't mindlessly repeating this without actually thinking, I would give a shit about the rest of your arguments. Just because you're too brain-dead to figure out the forces required to lift a Buick or resist M-16 fire doesn't mean no one else is. My purpose here is simple: To get you to either debate logically, or to get you to fuck off. Do one of the two.

[Connor MacLeod]

I see you don't actually understand what you quoted, little boy.

Suspension Of Disbelief is fundamental to scientific debate of sci-fi and other genres. It means we don't question how, we merely quantify events.

Of course, 'holding energy' is ridiculous and impossible to quantify. Unless you mean holding energy like a copper wire can, in which case it's not a notable feat.

And again, there's no way to quantify these things.

You know, if you weren't mindlessly repeating this without actually thinking, I would give a shit about the rest of your arguments. Just because you're too brain-dead to figure out the forces required to lift a Buick or resist M-16 fire doesn't mean no one else is. My purpose here is simple: To get you to either debate logically, or to get you to fuck off. Do one of the two.

You think he's bad. In DBZ debates you have to deal with multiple versions of that mentality

[Jonathanos]

Since I'm brain-dead, why don't you calculate it?

Here's every detail:

IH #117: 20 megaton explosion (my mistake earlier). The Hulk leaps two seconds before it detonated. That's all you have.

IH #174: The Hulk has his arms around Cobalt Man when he detonates with enough power to destroy Sydney, Australia. That's all you have.

IH #440: The military drops an atomic bomb on the Hulk. In IH #444, we learn that he "TRIED" (implying failed) to use a Pantheon safehouse to escape the blast. That's all the information you have.

IH #391: The Hulk is weakened to an unknown extent and Havok blasts him with his own power. Havok is described as "a warrior with atomic bombs for hands" in the next issue (possible hyperbole). That's all you have.

Calculate it exactly or admit that you too are brain-dead.

And still no one on the Godzilla side has provided any references to back his stance. LOL. This is hilarious.

[Jonathanos]

Well, I'm going to make Nitram happy and "fuck off."

It's obvious that none of you care to actually debate the topic and would rather go around saying "Godzilla wins just because." Not one of you has bothered to provide examples of Godzilla's durability even after repeated requests on my part.

So tell you what: You pretend you won. Throw some insulting names at me if you like. I won't see 'em and you can all get back to *cough* "logically" *cough* examing this fight without having to actually look into it too deeply.

[SirNitram]

Since I'm brain-dead, why don't you calculate it?

Here's every detail:

IH #117: 20 megaton explosion (my mistake earlier). The Hulk leaps two seconds before it detonated. That's all you have.

His speed when jumping, please?

Of course, a simplified calculation can be made even without that, since he would only have absorbed a small amount of the blast. Call it a hundred kilo's of thermal damage absorbed.

IH #174: The Hulk has his arms around Cobalt Man when he detonates with enough power to destroy Sydney, Australia. That's all you have.

His distance from the blast? The tonnage should be simimlar to the 20MT device... The main difference from the above example would be he survived the compression that occours at ground zero, but that's not exactly mind-blowing..

IH #440: The military drops an atomic bomb on the Hulk. In IH #444, we learn that he "TRIED" (implying failed) to use a Pantheon safehouse to escape the blast. That's all the information you have.

Distance from the blast? This warhead's yield is likely less than the 20MT..

IH #391: The Hulk is weakened to an unknown extent and Havok blasts him with his own power. Havok is described as "a warrior with atomic bombs for hands" in the next issue (possible hyperbole). That's all you have.

Calculate it exactly or admit that you too are brain-dead.

Ah, a strawman. Saying it must be exact or I'm as bad as you, who don't even try. You're pathetic.

And still no one on the Godzilla side has provided any references to back his stance. LOL. This is hilarious.

Nah, hilarious is the utter derth of information you offer. You don't even bother to add the distance from the ground zero point for this, and make up silly strawman about exactly. Do actually try, child.

[Crazy Goji]

So, let's see.

Godzilla has:

Mutated from a nuke.

Absorbed radiation from a nuclear reactor.

Taken direct shots from tanks, jets, maser tanks, lasers, ect.

Has survived intense shellings.

Beaten several monsters that were about his height and weight.

Has powers that include atomic ray, nuclear pulse, and rapid regeneration.

Godzilla has been smashed, bashed, masered, and lasered. He is virtually unstoppable. The only thing known to be able to kill Godzilla was the oxygen destroyer. Unfortunately the creator of the device, Dr. Serizawa, died so that the awesome power of the superweapon would never be used again.

I don't have any specific movies, but these things can be found in almost every movie and/or series.

[Crazy Goji]

Crap, can't find an edit button.

Godzilla also lived in a volcano for about five years.

[Sea Skimmer]

Crap, can't find an edit button.

Godzilla also lived in a volcano for about five years.

After falling thousands, possibul tens of thousands of feet into it given how small he appeared by the end, into it.

[Jonathanos]

Hey, Nitram-- Before I "fuck off" I thought you might like to know:

With the exception of IH #174 (which if you were able to read, you'd have seen that the Hulk was NO distance from the detonation), we don't know how far the Hulk was from ground zero. Nor the Hulk's jumping speed. Nothing.

Thus impossible to calculate and nothing but useless speculation.

[SirNitram]

Hey, Nitram-- Before I "fuck off" I thought you might like to know:

With the exception of IH #174 (which if you were able to read, you'd have seen that the Hulk was NO distance from the detonation), we don't know how far the Hulk was from ground zero. Nor the Hulk's jumping speed. Nothing.

Thus impossible to calculate and nothing but useless speculation.

Suuuure it's impossible to calculate. If nothing else, we use normal human speed, and approximate the distance. You're just another idiotic fanwhore: If it's not spelled out for you, you can't do it, because you don't have the brainpower.

I'm sorry you're upset we demand you use that lump of grey matter you carry around uselessly. As I said.. Live up to the standards, or go away. No one will mourn your passing, that's obvious.

[Darth Yoshi]

I should probably point out that Godzilla 2000 is not the original Godzilla. The original Godzilla--the one most commonly refered to--died fighting Destoroyah due to heart failure. The radiation released from that revived Godzilla Junior, who had been killed by Destoroyah previously.

[Crazy Goji]

I should probably point out that Godzilla 2000 is not the original Godzilla. The original Godzilla--the one most commonly refered to--died fighting Destoroyah due to heart failure. The radiation released from that revived Godzilla Junior, who had been killed by Destoroyah previously.

That wasn't the original Godzilla either. The original Godzilla was killed by the Oxygen Destroyer. The one you are thinking of his the Heisei Godzilla. He was a second one that didn't rise until 1985.