Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)

[Scrib]

Umm, the Tullys aren't ancient the way the Starks or Lannisters are, dating back only to Aegeon, but they're sorta Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, Masters of one of the Seven Kingdoms. Age of the House doesn't enter into it that much. The Tullys are kind of a big deal in the same way the Starks, Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells and Arryns are.

Not really. At least, they don't have the sort of prestige that would justify keeping a Tully around solely to breed him like a horse, especially when you were already granted Riverrun. To be fair that might apply to all houses, there isn't a lot of religious significance to their longevity iirc, but still seems strange.

[fgalkin]

Umm, the Tullys aren't ancient the way the Starks or Lannisters are, dating back only to Aegeon, but they're sorta Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, Masters of one of the Seven Kingdoms. Age of the House doesn't enter into it that much. The Tullys are kind of a big deal in the same way the Starks, Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells and Arryns are.

Not really. At least, they don't have the sort of prestige that would justify keeping a Tully around solely to breed him like a horse, especially when you were already granted Riverrun. To be fair that might apply to all houses, there isn't a lot of religious significance to their longevity iirc, but still seems strange.

Nonsense, their lineage is as noble as the Tyrells or the Greyjoys, who also old houses of the Age of Heroes that rose to prominence during the Conquest.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Scrib]

They are, like the Tyrells, recent Lord Paramounts though. Lots of houses are old, doesn't mean you'd go out of your way to breed into them, (see, the Westerlings) regardless the point still stands.

[Vympel]

Spoiler

Lets be clear, nobody knew what Frey's reaction was going to be until the day of the wedding so the air of uncertainty was hanging there for however many months between his marraige to fakeJeyne and the Red Wedding. They had all of a few hours to believe they still had a chance at winning the war befoer they all died, before that they were hosed and everyone knew it. Roose Bolton obviously made decisions based on that.

As it is he has lost the Bolton's and Karstarks before the Red Wedding, the Frey's as well obviously though they are not Northmen. Thats probably the three most powerful houseses behind his cause right there. If Frey could have controlled himself and not killed so many northern noble men he probably would have begrudgingly had Manderly's real support after it.

Never.
Spoiler

Ramsay Snow took care of that when he starved Lady Hornwood - who was a Manderly - to death, even if the Manderly's weren't fanatically loyal to the Starks, which it seems pretty clear they are.

They do? I was under the impression that that was an honest accident in the books. They were actually worried that it could turn out to be male as well. They could just take the castle, I don't see why the Tullys matter. If it was an ancient house it may have been one thing; they're not.

No, in the books the thing was that if the child turned out to be male, Edmure would immediately be killed, because he was no longer required. Why is not made clear - certainly nothing to do with Riverrun - which was granted to Emmon Frey (creating House Frey of Riverrun) much more likely a hostage to the good behavior of the Riverlords.

Umm, the Tullys aren't ancient the way the Starks or Lannisters are, dating back only to Aegeon, but they're sorta Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, Masters of one of the Seven Kingdoms. Age of the House doesn't enter into it that much. The Tullys are kind of a big deal in the same way the Starks, Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells and Arryns are.

Nitpick: the Riverlands were never one of the Seven Kingdoms. The Seven Kingdoms are the North, the Iron Islands, the Vale, the Reach, the Stormlands, Dorne, and the Westerlands. The Riverlands belonged to the Iron Islands at the time of Aegon's Conquest.

Westeros really has 9 regions / centres of power - the Riverlands plus the Seven Kingdoms, and the Crownlands, which are sworn directly to King's Landing/ the Iron Throne.

By the way, I forgot to mention this but did anyone else love Roose Trollton's face when Cat explained that Ned had spared her the indignity of the bedding ceremony. It just screamed to me like he was thinking 'Well, weren't you married to the most perfect man of EVER?!?!?'

Dude, Trollton is so apt. I mean for fuck's sake, he deliberately drew Cat's attention to his chainmail.

[Surlethe]

Any time Bolton has had more than thirty seconds of screentime, he's been trolling the fuck out of everyone around him. This from the very first scene when he all but proposes flaying all the Lannister prisoners. (Then a couple of episodes later, when they realize there aren't any pens, he chimes in again -- "Too many prisoners.") And then, of course, Jaime overplaying his ... position.

[Raw Shark]

I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.

[Vympel]

Any time Bolton has had more than thirty seconds of screentime, he's been trolling the fuck out of everyone around him. This from the very first scene when he all but proposes flaying all the Lannister prisoners. (Then a couple of episodes later, when they realize there aren't any pens, he chimes in again -- "Too many prisoners.") And then, of course, Jaime overplaying his ... position.

Don't forget with Jaime how long he drew out the news about King's Landing, saying it in a deliberate "your sister's dead" tone.

I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.

I don't think he wore that outfit when he made his reappearance at the wedding. In fact, where is that screaming face helmet from? I can't find it.

[Raw Shark]

I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.

I don't think he wore that outfit when he made his reappearance at the wedding. In fact, where is that screaming face helmet from? I can't find it.

Looks like I misremembered the helmet at the Red Wedding - I've always pictured it, and the fact that he isn't identified by name from Catelyn's POV indicates the strong probability of a helmet when he comes back, but it isn't specifically described in ASOS the way the cloak is:

A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted.

Turns out the awesome helmet is worn by Ramsay when he arrives at Winterfell in ACOK:

"How many men did you lose?" Theon asked Red Helm as he dismounted.
"Twenty or thirty." The torchlight glittered off the chipped enamel of his visor. His helm and gorget were wrought in the shape of a man's face and shoulders, skinless and bloody, mouth open in a silent howl of anguish.

My fault, sorry.

[2000AD]

[url=http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/ ... warningThe Penny Arcade Report had a nice article on why this is probably going to be a unique cultural situation. [/url]

Nice relevant quote from Martin too:

“I try to make the readers feel they’ve lived the events of the book. Just as you grieve if a friend is killed, you should grieve if a fictional character is killed. You should care. If somebody dies and you just go get more popcorn, it’s a superficial experience isn’t it?”

Going to be a long long time till another series makes us invest in so amny characters only to kill a bunch suddenly.

[Surlethe]

#soon

I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.

That was, frankly, the only part of the wedding I thought was poorly done. It was the cinematography -- he pulled the chainmail reveal, then disappeared until he conveyed the Lannisters' regards. There should have been an establishing shot, just a half second, of Bolton watching the carnage from the sidelines to place him in the scene. He was obviously fast about the kill because he didn't want to be in the crossbow killzone, but there was no cinematic establishment.

Don't forget with Jaime how long he drew out the news about King's Landing, saying it in a deliberate "your sister's dead" tone.

You didn't click on my second link, did you?

***

Apparently this happened at a panel interview.

"So, are you excited about the upcoming season?"

[Ralin]

Going to be a long long time till another series makes us invest in so amny characters only to kill a bunch suddenly.

But goddamn will it be imitated to death.

[NeoGoomba]

"So, are you excited about the upcoming season?"

Bwahahahaha

[Mr Bean]

How have I never seen this quote before?

George Stroumboulopoulos: There's one thing that's interesting about your books. I noticed that you write women really well and really different. Where does that come from?
George R.R. Martin: You know, I've always considered women to be people.

[hongi]

So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.

[Ralin]

So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.

A lot. I don't think we have exact numbers, but Feast makes it clear that it really fucked up the countryside and average person.

And not just dead people. Fields burned, livestock slaughtered, etc, and they're probably not going to get another harvest before winter sets in.

[Mr Bean]

So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.

Estimations are around 60,000 dead from warfare with another 250,000 dead from disease, starvation and the like with another four million due to die in the coming winter with a total population of around 20 million for all of Westeros. Keep in mind that's only the seven kingdoms, we are not counting the free cities, the Summer Islands or anywhere else in the world.

Estimations were all from memory from an old tower of the hand forum thread about counting up war dead and putting in real world equivalencies. The Riverlands for example are pretty much expected to be totally depopulated come Spring.

[Surlethe]

I just wanted to warn everyone that

[streetad]

Given Danaerys' well-meaning rampage around what seems to be a much more densely populated part of the world, you could probably double that casualty list for the books as a whole...

[Patroklos]

She has really only caused destruction in the area of two cities. Astapor is probably a total loss and Yunkai has suffered some but it was not sacked. The Dothraki hordes are an ever present thing, despite Drogo's short lived rampage they are just going about their normal buisness and given Drogo fell upon another Khal already sacking the only town we see him attack that is probably not notable either. All in all the East seems to be doing okay, and so far there has been no mention of the winter affecting Esos whatsoever. I highly doubt Bravos would be what it is if they suffer similar affects given its size and location.
Spoiler

Of course given Volantis just entered the war and Victarian's impending arrival thats probably not going to remain the case for long

In the books we also have Mereen, and I am not sure what they are going to do about that in the TV series as so far there is no other city introduced to beseige them in Yunkai unless the introduce Mereen for that purpose. At which point I would ask why they didn't swith the names to avoid confusing the slightly different story lines even further. If they do follow through with the siege then that will increase the body count in Esos a lot as the disease in the besieging camp killed thousands if not tens of thousands.

[Thanas]

So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.

Well, the French, English, Germans, Byzantines and Turks might disagree with you on that one.

[CaptHawkeye]

Wars tend to last longer as you go back farther in history. With some pre-industrial wars notoriously lasting decades and then some conflicts going on for a century. Fast wars tend to be a modern thing, due to the nature of industry, technology, and the highly centralized nature of the nation-state.

[The Yosemite Bear]

laughed with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the god they made.

[Havok]

Sympathy for the Devil?

[NeoGoomba]

People at my work are screeching at me and calling me all sorts of silly names because I never gave a shit about Robb and thought Caetlyn was the worst. In the books when it happened I just shrugged my shoulders and thought "fucking finally", same with the show.

They keep bitching about how:
A) there are no more Starks left. I guess the idiots forgot about Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Jon

B) there are no good guys left. To be fair, it seems everyone forgets about poor Davos.

I love tormenting them with the fact that Jamie is easily one of my favorite characters also. Whoops, did I say I liked a character out loud? GRRM is going to strike him dead next, oh noes!!

And I don't know how they'd do it, or what actors they'd get, but I'd fucking LOVE to see Robert vs. Rhaegar, or Ned Stark vs. The Sword of the Morning in flashbacks.

[TheHammer]

People at my work are screeching at me and calling me all sorts of silly names because I never gave a shit about Robb and thought Caetlyn was the worst. In the books when it happened I just shrugged my shoulders and thought "fucking finally", same with the show.

They keep bitching about how:
A) there are no more Starks left. I guess the idiots forgot about Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Jon

B) there are no good guys left. To be fair, it seems everyone forgets about poor Davos.

I love tormenting them with the fact that Jamie is easily one of my favorite characters also. Whoops, did I say I liked a character out loud? GRRM is going to strike him dead next, oh noes!!

And I don't know how they'd do it, or what actors they'd get, but I'd fucking LOVE to see Robert vs. Rhaegar, or Ned Stark vs. The Sword of the Morning in flashbacks.

Anyone who has bothered to follow the series knows that there are still "good guys" and starks. Hell, Jamie Lannister seems to be making a "face-turn" to borrow a pro-wrestling term, and I suspect he'll give people something to root for moving forward.

What they don't seem to grasp is that Westeros is the main character of GoT.