Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

[CaptHawkeye]

I thought it was great. Just by removing the ham-fisted subplots like "A woman's place is the kitchen not the battlefield!" the movie was a substantial improvement over RotK. Their are a lot of characters (the Dwarf Company) and a lot of things going on in the plot and I was astounded by how well they made it all function together. It could have been a plodding mess the kind of which Jackson is subtly notorious for. But flowed well as a somewhat more light hearted adventure movie. I feel this was intentional, since as stated before the film makers probably wanted to avoid making the film feel just like LotR.

As for the visuals. I saw no problem. I watched the movie in 3D and at no point did I feel anything looked weird. I think most people are just used to movies normally being very *under* lit.

[Ted C]

I think it could have done without the 15-minute intro featuring Bilbo and Frodo. I also think that "creating" an extra villain with a grudge against Thorin was probably unnecessary. Things that were changed to better translate from page to screen I found easier to tolerate; the fact that they usually upped the action quotient didn't hurt.

Not too thrilled with Radagast, since PJ had to make up almost everything about him from whole cloth (since he was just mentioned in passing in LOTR and never "appeared" as a character).

[CaptHawkeye]

I thought Radagast was one the better "created" characters for the film. Azog had less character than freaking Lurtz and Lurtz had one line. "FIND THE HALFLINGS." It's not a better movie than Fellowship, but it's better than the direction I thought PJ was going after Return of the King.

[JLTucker]

Radagast is probably the best thing I like about the movie. All of his scenes reek tension, made up or not. It was fun to watch.

[CaptHawkeye]

I thought it was interesting that a bumbling goofball like him Spoiler

was the first person to take the growing threat posed by the necromancer seriously. He and Gandalf also fully understood what the presence of the Witch King in Dol Guldur meant. That Sauron is planning on making a comeback in the future.

[NeoGoomba]

I enjoyed the movie quite a bit, although very few of the drastic changes/additions were to my liking. Some of the alterations seemed to force drama into scenes where there wasn't any needed (aka Thorin and the Elves). That aside, I thought the primary cast was fantastic, even in the scenes that I didn't care for.
Spoiler

I did like the contempt Saruman held Radagast in during the Council scene, a nice nod to Saruman's character shown in LotR and in The Silmarillion. I thought they made Elrond seem more "real" with him showing emotions other than OMINOUS WARNING and GRIMDARK FACE. As a whole I thought the majority of the White Council scenes were well done. Galadriel really bothered me though. Her scenes, from the editing to the dialogue, seemed like terrible fanfiction.

One scene that I hated above all else was When Bilbo tried to sneak out on Thorin and Co. in the cave. For whatever reason, that change irked me the most. I know they did it to frame the added scene of him charging Azog to be that much more emotional, but I think it did Bilbo a disservice. I feel that having him be a loyal guy staying with the dwarves despite Thorin's initial misgivings makes him a better character.

That said though, I thought they did a GREAT job making Thorin and Co. likeable characters. The flashback to the battle of Moria's Gates was a great way to cement the type of dwarf Thorin was, and how he deserved to rule. Far better than in the book where he's the rightful leader simply due to lineage, a common Tolkien motif.

And man, Serkis (as actor and director) kicked major ass with the Riddles in the Dark scene.

And did the chase out of the Goblin's mountain seem like a Little Big Planet stage to anyone else?

[CaptHawkeye]

It seemed like an Indiana Jones film at that part really. Spoiler

Even comes with Gandalf effortlessly killing the Goblin king Indy Style.

[Mr Bean]

It seemed like an Indiana Jones film at that part really. Spoiler

Even comes with Gandalf effortlessly killing the Goblin king Indy Style.

I've heard it called Pirates of the Caribbean like. If you've ever watched those movies you get the same feeling. No one except the goblins are in any danger during that escape, we are only waiting to see how our heroes make it out.

On that note Spoiler

I wish they had split the chase scene up more. I'd like to see Thorin and the dwarf brothers plus the funny hat guy go one way while the the bald warrior dwarf, the fat dwarf and the old dwarf go the other. I know there's a deaf dwarf there as well beyond that I don't know them. Either way I'd have loved to see them slow the escape down a little bit for some good comedy since there was no tension in the scene. The only thing I felt was ooh what's going to happen next.

Also because this is not spoilers let me try this again, There are twelve, or thirteen dwarves.

There's Thorin the leader he gets lines
Balin the old dwarf who's Thorin's second he gets lines
Dwalin the bald dwarf who plays off Balin
Fili and Kili the brothers
Bofur of the silly hat and short speech
Bombur the fat one
And Ori the young one? The one who's looking up to the other dwarves all the time.

Beyond that are Nori, Dori, Bifur and Golin... do they even have lines?
Just a general non-spoilery question because I remember Thorion, I remember Balin, I remember Dwalin because he's joking with Balin half the time. I remember Fili and Kili because they are brothers I know Bofur only because of his silly hat and I remember Bombur because he's fat.

The others... does anyone even remember that many? Did I miss Nori, Dori, Bifur or Golins big moment because I was taking a piss during their scene?

[Ted C]

Also because this is not spoilers let me try this again, There are twelve, or thirteen dwarves.

There's Thorin the leader he gets lines
Balin the old dwarf who's Thorin's second he gets lines
Dwalin the bald dwarf who plays off Balin
Fili and Kili the brothers
Bofur of the silly hat and short speech
Bombur the fat one
And Ori the young one? The one who's looking up to the other dwarves all the time.

Beyond that are Nori, Dori, Bifur and Golin... do they even have lines?
Just a general non-spoilery question because I remember Thorion, I remember Balin, I remember Dwalin because he's joking with Balin half the time. I remember Fili and Kili because they are brothers I know Bofur only because of his silly hat and I remember Bombur because he's fat.

The others... does anyone even remember that many? Did I miss Nori, Dori, Bifur or Golins big moment because I was taking a piss during their scene?

There are thirteen: you missed Oin (and misspelled Gloin).

[Elfdart]

Galadriel was in the movie for one reason: to break up the total sausagefest, and I think that really sucks. On the other hand, Cate Blanchett is always schwing-worthy!

[JLTucker]

Galadriel was in the movie for one reason: to break up the total sausagefest, and I think that really sucks. On the other hand, Cate Blanchett is always schwing-worthy!

She may have a part to play in the next two movies. Who knows. I just hope Radagast is back for more.

[CaptHawkeye]

Galadriel is a major member of the White Council. Would have been pretty ridiculous if she *wasn't* there to me.

[Ted C]

Galadriel is a major member of the White Council. Would have been pretty ridiculous if she *wasn't* there to me.

Yeah. Since PJ decided to throw in the activities of the White Council during Bilbo's journey, she's a pretty critical player. I expect that the Council's actions will mostly take place during the second movie, padding out the Company of Thorin's trip through Mirkwood.

[CaptHawkeye]

The third movie is what really has me worried. It seems like it's going to be all conjecture and side stories ripped from the Appendices of the books. This is the kind of enviornment where Peter Jackson's ego can do some real damage.

[Civil War Man]

I thought it was interesting that a bumbling goofball like him Spoiler

was the first person to take the growing threat posed by the necromancer seriously. He and Gandalf also fully understood what the presence of the Witch King in Dol Guldur meant. That Sauron is planning on making a comeback in the future.

Also, for all of his goofiness, he's powerful enough to Spoiler

fight off the Witch King single-handedly after being ambushed

The third movie is what really has me worried. It seems like it's going to be all conjecture and side stories ripped from the Appendices of the books. This is the kind of enviornment where Peter Jackson's ego can do some real damage.

My conjecture for how it will turn out is that movie two will cover Beorn, Mirkwood, and the escape to Laketown, along with the bulk of the White Council storyline, possibly getting as far as the death of Smaug depending on how long they make the other sections. Depending on where they put the cutoff, it will either end with a wideshot of the party gazing at the Lonely Mountain with a sense of forboding or an establishing shot of the five armies converging on the Lonely Mountain.

At which point I suspect movie three will be the death of Smaug (if not already covered in 2), the White Council driving the Necromancer out of Dol Guldur, the Battle of Five Armies, and Bilbo returning home.

[Ted C]

The third movie is what really has me worried. It seems like it's going to be all conjecture and side stories ripped from the Appendices of the books. This is the kind of enviornment where Peter Jackson's ego can do some real damage.

I doubt that. I expect that #2 will end with the dwarves arriving in Laketown, and the third movie will be dealing with Smaug and then the Battle of Five Armies. PJ should have no trouble dragging that out for three hours.

[JLTucker]

From what I've read, the second movie is titled "The Desolation of Smaug." I think it's safe to conclude the death will be there.

[Civil War Man]

If that's the case, here's how I guess it will go: The Hobbit 2 will be Beorn, Mirkwood, the Elves, escaping to Laketown, the trek to the Lonely Mountain, and the death of Smaug. The White Council subplot involves confirming the Necromancer's identity and convincing Saruman to go to war. The ending shot will show the news of Smaug's death spreading, and the humans, elves, dwarves, and orcs mobilizing and converging on the mountain to claim it as their own. The Hobbit 3 will have the armies slowly arriving, the politicking over who claims what, culminating in the Battle of Five Armies. The White Council goes to war, and kicks Sauron out of Dol Guldur. Then Bilbo goes home, and deals with the whole incident of his house being auctioned off. Since the start of the first movie took place immediately before the start of LOTR, the final movie closes with Gandalf arriving and them leaving for the party.

[Ahriman238]

Also because this is not spoilers let me try this again, There are twelve, or thirteen dwarves.

There's Thorin the leader he gets lines
Balin the old dwarf who's Thorin's second he gets lines
Dwalin the bald dwarf who plays off Balin
Fili and Kili the brothers
Bofur of the silly hat and short speech
Bombur the fat one
And Ori the young one? The one who's looking up to the other dwarves all the time.

Beyond that are Nori, Dori, Bifur and Golin... do they even have lines?
Just a general non-spoilery question because I remember Thorion, I remember Balin, I remember Dwalin because he's joking with Balin half the time. I remember Fili and Kili because they are brothers I know Bofur only because of his silly hat and I remember Bombur because he's fat.

The others... does anyone even remember that many? Did I miss Nori, Dori, Bifur or Golins big moment because I was taking a piss during their scene?

Mostly throwaway lines, I know Gloin because he looks sort of like Gimli, has the same ax and was bitching about Elven food. You really should know Bifur, as he not only had the most awesome hat of the dwarves, but wound up Bilbo to the point of fainting that first night, then tried to talk him out of leaving at the cave.

Beyond that... One of the -Orys (possibly Ory himself) had a slingshot.

Spoiler

At first I thought the addition of Azog was pointless drama and padding, albeit with a cool backstory to the 'Oakenshield' of Thorin's name. Then Fridge Logic kicked in around Rivendell and I realized that a.) Thorin is really, REALLY sure that Azog died from his wounds years ago and b.) this movie has placed a hell of a lot more emphasis on Sauron's return as the Necromancer. Something that was only reinforced when they spoke to the Goblin King. THORIN: No, he's dead. GK: So you supposed his defiling days were over?

So that was cool. I imagine that rather than having any personal interest in the quest to the lonely mountain (but if only he knew) Sauron revived Azog as a test run, or on general purpose of causing mayhem, and Azog was driven to find and avenge himself upon his killer.

That made the whole thing a lot more awesome.

I really liked the expanding on the kingdom of Erebor, the shots of it before and during it's fall, and the feel of the dwarves as a people broken and scattered. Likewise Balin's conversation with Thorin before setting out.
Spoiler

I really didn't like that they had to sneak out of Rivendell.

[Ted C]

Yeah... Spoiler

the friction between Thorin and the Elves is pretty much made up. He had no problem with Elrond in the book.

[Ahriman238]

Yeah... Spoiler

the friction between Thorin and the Elves is pretty much made up. He had no problem with Elrond in the book.

Is there a point to spoiler-tagging anything from the book literally everyone has read, or has had read to them? Or on the second page of a thread about a movie?
Spoiler

Anyways, it's not so much "made up" as "doesn't become an issue until much, much later" when the Elf-king and Thorin are completely incapable of trusting each other to any degree at all., Thorin won't tell the elves about his quest, so the Elves assume he's some kind of spy. Having the elves very visibly offer no support to the dwarves in their hour of need goes a long way towards explaining that. Though you are correct, there weren't any issues with Elrond specifically, nor any mention of tensions in Rivendell (Though one thing mentioned much later in the unfinished tales was that Bilbo was almost completely oblivious in the beginning to the dwarves moods, and just how much contempt they really had for him. It's a very small step to say that Bilbo wouldn't have noticed any tension or veiled hostility.) I suspect they wanted to foreshadow/establish the hostility for later.

[El Moose Monstero]

The reason I put in the spoiler tags was basically so that people who hadn't seen it yet were protected, and then that people who hadn't read the book were protected. There have been a couple of people in the thread who hadn't read the book, so it seemed a bit unfair to spoil elements of the next two films for them by straying into unspoilered book discussions.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I think the second movie is supposed to feature the white council mounting an attack and driving sauron out of DG, I think.

[Tiriol]

I'd like to know if Jackson is going to include Sauron somehow declaring himself openly upon his return to Mordor. It happened some years after the whole Erebor business as I recall, but Jackson has already made some other changes and having Sauron becoming a visible ruler of Mordor would probably tie this movie trilogy better to the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy, since now the main villain is ready for action.

[LadyTevar]

Saw it today

So, The Ring leaves Gollum right at the point where there is someone who wants to leave the mountain.
Coincidence? Also, The Ring lands on Bilbo's hand right when he falls. Echoed later by Frodo in Bree.
Damn Ring is semi-sentient