Let's Talk About Watchmen

[Shroom Man 777]

ANGELUS:

I agree. When I read the comic (I am still not finished), the part dealing with Manhattan's flashbacks was really beautiful. How time was blended and how the comic cut forward and backward through time so seamlessly while Manhattan narrates it. It's great, and something the movie couldn't capture.

[Thanas]

I really do not mind the violence in the movie. The comic book had a lot of violence as well - in the fight scene Nite Owl and SS are breaking jaws as well, there is blood spewing everywhere....

And they have superpowers in the comic as well (well, at least Ozymandias does).

[Darth Fanboy]

I always wondered though in the comic if it was actually a superpower or more of a combination of Veidt's attentiveness, spectacular reflexes, and a little bit of luck put together.

Depending on how far away Silk Spectre was standing if he could anticipate where she was going to shoot him and when she was actually going to pull the trigger given his speed and intellect it is possible he could have just had the ability to give him the chance to stop that bullet with his hand. After all even he himself said he didn't know if that trick would work.

[Thanas]

I always wondered though in the comic if it was actually a superpower or more of a combination of Veidt's attentiveness, spectacular reflexes, and a little bit of luck put together.

Depending on how far away Silk Spectre was standing if he could anticipate where she was going to shoot him and when she was actually going to pull the trigger given his speed and intellect it is possible he could have just had the ability to give him the chance to stop that bullet with his hand. After all even he himself said he didn't know if that trick would work.

He just starts moving when she pulls the trigger. His reflexes are better and faster than a bullet, so clearly it is a superpower. That, and the bullet does not penetrate his flesh.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Or when Veidt stated that the brain of his squid monster was grown from a 'latent'.

Well Alan Moore believes in psychic abilities, so it's just part of the world to him.

Yeah, I know.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I always wondered though in the comic if it was actually a superpower or more of a combination of Veidt's attentiveness, spectacular reflexes, and a little bit of luck put together.

Depending on how far away Silk Spectre was standing if he could anticipate where she was going to shoot him and when she was actually going to pull the trigger given his speed and intellect it is possible he could have just had the ability to give him the chance to stop that bullet with his hand. After all even he himself said he didn't know if that trick would work.

He just starts moving when she pulls the trigger. His reflexes are better and faster than a bullet, so clearly it is a superpower. That, and the bullet does not penetrate his flesh.

His hand was covered with blood, and he was wearing some sort of glove.

[Havok]

Yeah, in both the comic and the movie, the bullet draws blood.

On the different endings as far as the monster attack vs the Manhattan attack:

There is no reason for the squid attack to bring the world together under the banner of peace. The attack was on American soil. It killed American citizens. Manhattan is known to be AWOL and no longer protecting America and there is zero guarantee that the attack is anything more than a one time event, or something that may not happen for another 1000 years. It could be as random as a comet strike.

When you look at it logically, why would an obviously intelligent and advanced race attack us with one unit? Also, if the trip here is going to kill it? Not exactly an effective mode of travel. It isn't a credible threat that would keep the world together on a united front. If anything, it looks like the creature had an accident of it's own and that is why it appeared in New York. You also have to take into account that the other governments of the world aren't just going to lay down arms and start giving hugs without extensive investigations and access to the creature and the attack site.

Now with Manhattan, and him attacking multiple major civilian targets across the globe you have a credible, known threat that has obviously, due to his recent actions, grown disdainful of the human race. We have records of him, know his power and know what he can do i.e. he can't just wipe us all out, but he can devastate us over time. He basically is a world power in his own right that has no country to attack and no country to defend. He is an immediate and identifiable threat that the world knows can strike at anytime and who's motives are clear (from the world's leaders POV).

However, as powerful as he is, he, like he has stated, is not omniscient. He is not a god. He can be hurt, he can be fought. That would unit the world because they would have to pool their resources to start coming up with a way to counter Manhattan. The U.S., and Veidt, having access to him for the past couple of decades, and giving the rest of the world access gives them credibility in wanting to initiate peace.

The Manhattan attacks makes far more sense than the squid attack.

[Freefall]

However, as powerful as he is, he, like he has stated, is not omniscient. He is not a god. He can be hurt, he can be fought. That would unit the world because they would have to pool their resources to start coming up with a way to counter Manhattan. The U.S., and Veidt, having access to him for the past couple of decades, and giving the rest of the world access gives them credibility in wanting to initiate peace.

Eh, I think that's questionable. Manhattan is a fairly small target who can be in multiple places at once, teleport, and see the future. As soon as his position is confirmed by anything, he can set off a nuke explosion and teleport somewhere else. Plus, Ozymandias took his best shot with months of prep time, and only slowed him down for something like 60 seconds. Even Manhattan's mortality is questionable. I mean, we're talking about a guy who can have his "intrinsic field" removed and finds it mildly irritating.

Of course, those last 2 bits aren't really known to the government, but even what is known would, I think, make any military effort against him a logistics nightmare. He's too small, too smart, too mobile, and too powerful. Yeah, maybe with Ozy's help and a few years of research they could come up with effective countermeasures against him, but if he really went apeshit on the earth, there's not a lot they could do. Every major city could be wiped out in a matter of days if he had the mind to do it.

Not that I think the Squid thing was really better. That came so far out of left field that it completely broke my SoD reading it. I actually stopped and just stared at the picture for a few seconds going, "What the fuck is that?!"

[DPDarkPrimus]

There is no reason for the squid attack to bring the world together under the banner of peace. The attack was on American soil. It killed American citizens. Manhattan is known to be AWOL and no longer protecting America and there is zero guarantee that the attack is anything more than a one time event, or something that may not happen for another 1000 years. It could be as random as a comet strike.

When you look at it logically, why would an obviously intelligent and advanced race attack us with one unit? Also, if the trip here is going to kill it? Not exactly an effective mode of travel. It isn't a credible threat that would keep the world together on a united front. If anything, it looks like the creature had an accident of it's own and that is why it appeared in New York. You also have to take into account that the other governments of the world aren't just going to lay down arms and start giving hugs without extensive investigations and access to the creature and the attack site.

You have to remember the whole "psychic shockwave" that showed people an entire alien civilization, etc., etc. It's more than just "alien shows up in NYC and kills people", there are effects felt world-wide.

[Stark]

It's pretty dumb to talk about how the squid wouldn't do xyz when it was clearly shown doing just that. The world of Watchmen isn't the real world and hasn't been for eighty years, so saying OMG NEVER HAPPEN is just bleh.

The idea that it planned to arrive dead is probably the funniest thing I've heard all day.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hmm... you know, the Watchmen trailer with that Smashing Pumpkins song is pretty badass.

[Darth Hoth]

I disagree severely about V for Vendetta, since I feel that the movie missed the most important parts; the moral ambiguity, the visual atmosphere, and the ending lost any real contact with the underlying philosophy of the comic, which ties back into the moral ambiguity.

Moral ambiguity? I read it more as "Grimdark GRIMDARK!!" There is never any question that V was a monstrously deranged and evil madman all along, once one has read the comic in its entirety. And while the implausibly Orwellian fascist government is not (for the most part) quite the moustache-twirling villains and straw hypocrites the film made them into, they certainly cannot be described as good, either.

Everyone and everything is bad and goodness is dead. They simply live in Warhammer 2k, only in the end the Imperium actually loses out to the Chaos Gods as we always knew it would, because unlike Games Workshop, Moore does not have a range of overexpensive tin soldiers to push.

I'd say it makes more sense within the story. Much of it is all about America with a literal God on its side. "God exists and he's an American, and that scares me." With Veidt's plan further distancing Manhattan from what keeps him human, he left the planet and had more time to slip into more godlike solipsism. The Manhattan attack keeps the story closer to the characters and has more justification for John to go off and be God elsewhere, which is critical to Veidt's plan for world peace.

My pet peeve about the whole Manhattan business, as I believe I have stated in similar threads before, is why the government never made more of him, especially once they began to doubt his reliability. Ozymandias could build another technobabblator of the kind that made him, so why not the military? I should think that they would be more comfortable if the angsty post-modernist with the Dragon Ball Z powers was being watched by Superman and Cosmic Cube-empowered Captain America.

Instead, they keep building expensive nuclear weapons that might well be useless against him.

[open_sketchbook]

We discussed this last thread I think; the US government lucked out in that they got a guy who was so passive that he wouldn't use his god-like powers to, well, play god. This is the same guy that was going to be a watchmaker because he dad was, then his dad told him to be a scientist so he did that. Even before he started seeing time as non-linear, the guy was a total pushover. The government is probably happy they didn't end up with a guy going mad with power and is quite satified with the one.

[Darth Hoth]

We may well have done so; I recognise the gist of your argument, at any rate. I am still unconvinced, however; as I stated before, it makes little sense for the government to put all their eggs in one basket in any case. Additionally, the comic makes it quite clear that alone, though powerful, he is not able to stave off considerable collateral damage in a nuclear war scenario; by logic, if one Manhattan can almost protect the USA completely, two should manage it easily, and that should be a very desirable goal for them. Another supermen, as also stated, is also more or less their only credible defence against him, should he prove unreliable.

Moreover, if they make more supermen, they can themselves control the selection process, which should produce better results than random chance.

[Darth Hoth]

Something else I came to think of: Veidt having access to the technobabble device. Regardless of whether the government want to use it again or not, they should be extremely paranoid about other people doing so. A machine that creates high-level superheroes should be vastly more restricted than any nuclear weapon. Yet Veidt can apparently build it in secret, without the authorities being any the wiser.

So: Is the Watchmen American security and intelligence community criminally incompetent?

Or: If he can build it, why are the Soviets unable to? Their armaments budget should be larger than his merchandise empire's total revenue by some orders of magnitude. And unlike the Americans, they have utterly no incentive not to use it.

That the MacGuffin device that makes Manhattan is explicitly shown to be replicable (unlike usual comic-book freak accidents with magical substances or rays from outer space, or whatever) is really something of a plot hole that undercuts the whole setting, since it depends heavily on him being unique.

[open_sketchbook]

Remember that, in the movie, Viedt was studying Manhatten in depth and developing new technologies based on him. Thus, it is entirely possible only he could have A) known a device such as that would disrupt Dr. Manhatten's vision of the future and B) known how to build such a device in the first place. It's a threat not even on the radar of the Americans or the Soviets, who are unaware of the possibility.

So: Is the Watchmen American security and intelligence community criminally incompetent?

They use an ex-superhero as an agent, and they have a living god on their side. It may be that their intelligence agency has atrophied in the meantime.

That the MacGuffin device that makes Manhattan is explicitly shown to be replicable (unlike usual comic-book freak accidents with magical substances or rays from outer space, or whatever) is really something of a plot hole that undercuts the whole setting, since it depends heavily on him being unique.

We don't know if anyone else could have put themselves back together, either, and it's possible they didn't want to start chucking important scientists into the machine to see if they come back blue and glowy, not to mention the "Oh no, he's gone mad with power" possibility. The government may simply have decided that one god was enough and it wasn't worth the costs or the risks to make more.

[Shroom Man 777]

Veidt was still in the process of constructing the device during the events of the movie. It's possible that the "Manhattan Machine" is the first ever of its kind, Veidt built it first. With considerable input from the man Manhattan himself, and with Veidt's own not inconsiderable intellect, and a whole army of scientists who got poisoned by champagne.

I wonder. Even if Veidt's sham is exposed, I don't think it would undo the peace made between the USA and the USSR. If they discovered that it wasn't Manhattan/giant squid that did it, but Veidt, they would still unite against a common threat. Except it's not a naked blue god or squidward, but just some guy with shallow liberal affectations (possibly homosexual, must investigate further).

I wonder if Adrian knew this and was willing to sacrifice his own self, so long as it united the USA and the USSR against a common enemy, even if that enemy would be himself.

[Rye]

Moral ambiguity? I read it more as "Grimdark GRIMDARK!!" There is never any question that V was a monstrously deranged and evil madman all along, once one has read the comic in its entirety. And while the implausibly Orwellian fascist government is not (for the most part) quite the moustache-twirling villains and straw hypocrites the film made them into, they certainly cannot be described as good, either.

The whole fact they had mass graves and human experimentation puts them into pretty severe moustache territory, even if it's more realistic moustaches from an unrealistic treatment of Thatcherite-far right politics.

Everyone and everything is bad and goodness is dead. They simply live in Warhammer 2k, only in the end the Imperium actually loses out to the Chaos Gods as we always knew it would, because unlike Games Workshop, Moore does not have a range of overexpensive tin soldiers to push.

Overwrought analogy much? And not everything is bad. The cops weren't entirely bad, nor was the TV satirist or various others. V and Evey weren't entirely bad at all. V was just nuts with vengeance and an Anarchist because he knew that the current order had to be overturned. He knew he was a monster and left everyone else to sort it out once the fascists had been humiliated and then destroyed. He attacked the idea and the people in the way that generally only comic book characters can.

I'd say it makes more sense within the story. Much of it is all about America with a literal God on its side. "God exists and he's an American, and that scares me." With Veidt's plan further distancing Manhattan from what keeps him human, he left the planet and had more time to slip into more godlike solipsism. The Manhattan attack keeps the story closer to the characters and has more justification for John to go off and be God elsewhere, which is critical to Veidt's plan for world peace.

My pet peeve about the whole Manhattan business, as I believe I have stated in similar threads before, is why the government never made more of him, especially once they began to doubt his reliability.

Who says the experiment was repeatable? Comic books are full of one-off accidents as origins for powers, not to mention John's pretty specific history and mentality that played a part.

Ozymandias could build another technobabblator of the kind that made him, so why not the military? I should think that they would be more comfortable if the angsty post-modernist with the Dragon Ball Z powers was being watched by Superman and Cosmic Cube-empowered Captain America.

How would you not become a post modernist if you can see all of existence as deterministic and can re-order reality to your will? You would be at one with the universe, nationalistic strife and short human lives will, as happened with John, matter less to you as time goes on. How can you care that your dick is out (the clothes equivalent of caring about people and nations) if you can watch electron ballet and smell the sun's fusion? At that point they can't do anything to you and have nothing for you. They're just a petty bunch of small objects in the middle ground somewhere between relativity and quantum experience.

Instead, they keep building expensive nuclear weapons that might well be useless against him.

Undoubtedly because they can't replicate the event. The nukes also have some other benefits; they're much less likely to turn on you on a whim and they address the main issue which is MAD with the other government, not Manhattan himself.

[Darth Hoth]

Overwrought analogy much? And not everything is bad. The cops weren't entirely bad, nor was the TV satirist or various others.

Finch is the Good Nazi character of the story - the pretty decent guy working in the evil system to show how evil it is. The cops otherwise were for the most part just faceless mooks, but everyone else in any position of authority that I can remember was either evil or insane.

The system as a whole was certainly unrealistically evil, down to Big Brother cameras in people's homes. Just less evil than V, but then so were the Nazis and the Soviet Union. Or pretty much anyone, except maybe African warlords or the Khmer Rouge.

V and Evey weren't entirely bad at all. V was just nuts with vengeance and an Anarchist because he knew that the current order had to be overturned. He knew he was a monster and left everyone else to sort it out once the fascists had been humiliated and then destroyed. He attacked the idea and the people in the way that generally only comic book characters can.

V was a complete monster who wanted to destroy all of society for the sake of vengeance and an insane ideology and did so, after he had tortured and brainwashed a little girl into becoming as crazy as he was himself. If he had any redeeming qualities, I missed them.

Ivey was just a victim of a mad cult leader and terrorist, so she is not evil per se.

As for the terror campaign, it was not just the fascist government that was destroyed. It was society itself, in what was implied to be the last civilised country on Earth, with the lights symbolically going out as Finch turns his back on it all. And V caused it all. That is truly monstrous evil - straight Chaotic Evil from the RPGs.

Who says the experiment was repeatable? Comic books are full of one-off accidents as origins for powers, not to mention John's pretty specific history and mentality that played a part.

The machine they used was rebuilt by Veidt, presumably in secret. By everything the comic tells us, it was what made Ostermann into Manhattan. Nothing is said about him being special, an X-Men mutant or the Chosen One in any way as far as I can recall. Why would his history or mentality matter?

How would you not become a post modernist if you can see all of existence as deterministic and can re-order reality to your will? You would be at one with the universe, nationalistic strife and short human lives will, as happened with John, matter less to you as time goes on. How can you care that your dick is out (the clothes equivalent of caring about people and nations) if you can watch electron ballet and smell the sun's fusion? At that point they can't do anything to you and have nothing for you. They're just a petty bunch of small objects in the middle ground somewhere between relativity and quantum experience.

Humans could do things that he could not. It was stated in the comic that he could not take on the USSR alone and defeat them, and Veidt could screw with his super-senses using human technology. The analogy with ants, bacteria and so on is lacking for that reason. And, well, perhaps I speak from my own limited frame of reference, but I cannot imagine that I would find any dead object as interesting to interact with as human beings, even if it was a black hole (or whatever). It would just be more or less random or regular patterns; they might be beautiful, but they could not offer companionship.

The fact that he came to perceive existence as deterministic is, admittedly, more problematic, and probably at the root of his problems.

Undoubtedly because they can't replicate the event. The nukes also have some other benefits; they're much less likely to turn on you on a whim and they address the main issue which is MAD with the other government, not Manhattan himself.

Except he should arguably be their main issue, not the Russians. He is more of a potential danger to them and a less rational actor, hence they should do their damnedest to develop something to control him.

[Freefall]

There wasn't a line anywhere in the comic about all the Russian's attempts at making their own Manhattan failing? I could have sworn there was.

I also feel that trying to control a possibly unstable godlike being by creating another possibly unstable godlike being, or even multiple unstable godlike beings, might not actually be a good way to go about things. Consider that even if you wanted to, you're not going to do it to your top brass until you're sure the procedure works, which would mean test runs with lower quality, more expendable subjects. The problem is, if it works you've got the aforementioned, possibly unstable godlike beings running around, who may even be immortal. Or imagine if they blindly tried it with animals first; now all of a sudden you've got a lab rat with godlike powers running around that may be impossible to kill.

And what if two or more of these guys did get into a fight? That could have a lot of collateral damage.


One more point on the squid; I had actually always figured that part of the response to the thing was meant to be satire on the ridiculous amount of paranoia that was going on during the cold war. Some unknown being from and unknown place suddenly shows up on earth, and the first, most "logical" response the world's governments can come up with is, "INVASION! THE ALIENS ARE GOING TO WIPE US ALL OUT!"

[Tomzilla]

I love both the graphic novel and the movie.

My reasons for liking the graphic novel?

-The Characters

There are so many memorable characters in Watchmen. Rorschach, Doctor Manhattan, Ozymandias, and many more. They all felt 'real' in the sense that their motivations were understandable. While we do have to suspend disbelief whenever Doctor Manhattan appears, his motivations are easier to interpret and understand. Rorschach arguably had the best character background. His entire life is summed up very nicely throughout the panels. Near the end we all understand why he cannot compromise. Ozymandias embodies our wants and desires quite nicely. He really has it all: superb physique, genius intellect, a vast fortune. He's also very likable. He's also the perfect villain. True, he secretly murdered millions. But he did it to save billions, so that justifies it all, right? While I think that still puts him in the 'Unforgivable Bastard' camp, I understand why some think he is a necessary evil. Since his master plan, to unite an entire world, worked.

-The Art

At first I wasn't a big fan of the art. I prefer Alex Ross, Shane Davis, Jim Lee. Their art just appeals to me more. Probably because I'm a bigger fan of 'modern' comic book art. But the more I read, the more I realized it was very fitting. Dave Gibbons did a wonderful job and captured not only the period, he also captured the feel of the story.

-The Story

I'm not Alan Moore's biggest fan. I recognize his achievements and acknowledge his contribution to literature. He's a maestro with the written word. But that's not why I love Watchmen's writing. I love it because it doesn't feel like I'm reading words at all. Every time I open my graphic novel up and start reading, the art and story comes to life. It flows so naturally. It's as if the writer took many years to carefully arrange each sentence, finding the perfect words to convey their story. I've read other stories from Moore before. While they're all fabulous and are gems that standout amongst other comic books, none of them compare to Watchmen.


My reasons for liking the movie?

Before I give my reasons, I think one of my primary reasons for liking both the graphic novel and the film is because I read the book and saw the movie around the same time. I didn't read the book years ago. It's not like I've revisited it again and again in my head. So not enough time passed to solidify its importance on me in the way would make me extremely protective of it. I read the graphic novel first before seeing the movie. But that's only, like, a six month gap.


-The Adaptation

I'll echo what other posters have pointed out. Bringing Watchmen to the big screen is by no means difficult. Anyone could have done it. The question is, would it have been good? Now that's what's hard to do! And I have to admire what the film did here. It summed up the graphic novel the best way a 2+ hour film could. It honored the characters, it honored the story, and it honored the time.

Was it just me or did the film portray all the character motivations fairly? Like it didn't make the audience feel like Rorschach's motivations were in the wrong or Nite Owl's were in the right. It felt like it left us to decide who is right and who is wrong. That's probably because both the film and the book follow the 'Eyes of the Beholder' mandate. It lets us -- the reader and the viewer -- ultimately decide who is good, who is evil, and who is just being human.

I also loved Jackie Haley's Rorschach and Jeffery Morgan's Comedian. Some really great performances!

-The Action

It's Zack Synder behind the camera. Of course there's going to be action! Some damn good action if you ask me. I enjoyed every second of it. Yes, it's a violent little flick. But that doesn't demean it in the least!

-The Ending

Yeah, I prefer the no 'Squidward' ending. Which happens to be the film's ending. When it comes to the film's context, it makes way more sense. Most viewers would've been very confused if they were supposed to buy alien invaders appearing out of the blue, even fake ones. The goal is to first convince the real audience. Make us, the real people, buy this conspiracy. In doing so, it'll be way easier for us to accept, "Hey, maybe this would work? Maybe an entire world would believe this bullshit? I did!"

One big problem with both endings: how does this bring peace and harmony to the world? Doctor Manhattan is godlike in every way imaginable. We have no chance. And intergalactic aliens capable of nuking one of our major cities? With a single one of their soldiers? And without us knowing and being able to stop it?! We're screwed either way. If either of these events happened in the Real World, there would've been mass panics, mass suicides, and mass genocides. People give in to their fears way more than they live through their hopes.

So even if people need to believe in something, which was an explanation given to me by a friend of mine in his attempt to defend all this, I still can't buy it. True, people do need to believe in something. Guess what it would be in a realistic scenario? Chaos. Impending doom. Our asses getting royally kicked. All of the above.


Oh, and the sex scene was hilarious. Another reason to watch the film.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I think the comic said that there had been rumors of Soviet attempts to create their own Manhattan with disappointing results. You have to remember, it wasn't JUST the machine. Ostermann had an insane amount of mental discipline and scientific knowledge, and was only able to reassemble after the initial incident after months (or years, don't remember) of work. You would need a brilliant physicist with the temperament and mentality of a watchmaker who'd spent his entire life slowly working his way through things.

And we don't have that many physicists to spare.

[Rye]

Overwrought analogy much? And not everything is bad. The cops weren't entirely bad, nor was the TV satirist or various others.

Finch is the Good Nazi character of the story - the pretty decent guy working in the evil system to show how evil it is. The cops otherwise were for the most part just faceless mooks, but everyone else in any position of authority that I can remember was either evil or insane.

Of course they were. It was a fascist dictatorship, that's what happens.

The system as a whole was certainly unrealistically evil, down to Big Brother cameras in people's homes. Just less evil than V, but then so were the Nazis and the Soviet Union. Or pretty much anyone, except maybe African warlords or the Khmer Rouge.

The nazis and soviets were not less evil than V.

V was a complete monster who wanted to destroy all of society for the sake of vengeance and an insane ideology and did so, after he had tortured and brainwashed a little girl into becoming as crazy as he was himself. If he had any redeeming qualities, I missed them.

He didn't want to destroy all society, he wanted to break the control structure that the fascists had put on society after they murdered all the gays and pakistanis. He wanted to show people that they could make a difference and be responsible and that ultimately, it was up to them. That was the idea behind leftist anarchism in the UK in the 80s.

As for the terror campaign, it was not just the fascist government that was destroyed. It was society itself, in what was implied to be the last civilised country on Earth, with the lights symbolically going out as Finch turns his back on it all. And V caused it all. That is truly monstrous evil - straight Chaotic Evil from the RPGs.

V is a monster, he doesn't care about society, he just wants to level the playing field and let people either rebuild society or turn on each other or bits of both.

The machine they used was rebuilt by Veidt, presumably in secret. By everything the comic tells us, it was what made Ostermann into Manhattan. Nothing is said about him being special, an X-Men mutant or the Chosen One in any way as far as I can recall.

Why would his history or mentality matter?

Pages 3 and 9 of his origin issue. It is clear that prior to being pressured into physics by his father, Osterman was transfixed by watch repair (and the methodical mind with an aptitude for building that this represents), and on page 9 Moore likens building his body back in the right order to the process of rebuilding the watch with Jon's narration and the final pane being Jon fixing his father's pocket watch. Likewise in the Super-Powers and the Superpowers excerpt, the same excerpt that I quoted previously, it is stated that he could put himself back together through sheer conscious will.

Humans could do things that he could not. It was stated in the comic that he could not take on the USSR alone and defeat them, and Veidt could screw with his super-senses using human technology.

It's actually stated that the soviets were of sufficiently ballsy stock that annihilation wouldn't deter them. This was a real attitude that existed in the Cold War in America. On the contrary, Osterman could handily defeat the soviets, he just wouldn't save America and her allies in the process because he doesn't see time or choices in the same way as normal people. Apathy would stop him because to him, it's already happened and he doesn't care. Same thing happened with the woman the Comedian shot. Like the Comedian said "you could've stopped me, you could've turned the bullets into mercury" - but he didn't.

And yes, tachyons do fuck with his perceptions, but that's it.

The analogy with ants, bacteria and so on is lacking for that reason. And, well, perhaps I speak from my own limited frame of reference, but I cannot imagine that I would find any dead object as interesting to interact with as human beings, even if it was a black hole (or whatever). It would just be more or less random or regular patterns; they might be beautiful, but they could not offer companionship.

His psyche changed when Osterman died. Subtracting his intrinsic field left his consciousness floating in the ether and it pulled his physical form back together, but had changed to become, well, God. He's seen every conversation he has and has the reason to make sense of it all, but all of it is unavoidable and far away from the human mind he grew up with. In a way, he has become the god of science; perfectly logical and deterministic, with no reason to do anything other than observe and experiment. I think he became America's superweapon out of habit rather than any particular sense of duty... all those sorts of thoughts melted away with his evolution into the universe's mechanic.

Except he should arguably be their main issue, not the Russians. He is more of a potential danger to them and a less rational actor, hence they should do their damnedest to develop something to control him.

What can you do to control the man who is an outside context problem for humanity? Only what Veidt managed, all of which was reliant upon battering his human remnants into submission.

[Ellindsey]

I assumed that other attempts to create more Dr Manhattans had been attempted and failed, either because the test subjects lacked whatever mental ability the original had to reconstruct themselves, or because the existence of one Dr Manhattan somehow intrinsically prevented others from coming into existence. It may have even been the case that he was intentionally preventing any attempts to recreate his accident from succeeding.

[Spoonist]

Re:V
V states himself that he is a monster who should be removed before the next phase. He even commits external suicide for fucks sake. As the detective says, he could have killed me.

Re: Watchmen
Someone who claims the squid attack wouldn't be perceived as a threat by USSR must have missed the whole island angle and assorted other references. Which being a key to the comedians death would be pretty stupid. So if you harbor such ideas please read it again.