A New Joker and...

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2008-07-21 02:26pm

One of the overarching themes between the two Batman movies is fear. The original has the Scarecrow with his fear gas, while the second had Joker terrorizing the citizens. Any villain in the next movie would have to, if not cause or inspire terror, attack in a psychological manner. I’m not sure who would be the best to do that though. Perhaps Mad Hatter?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-07-21 02:28pm

The problem with the Mad Hatter is he's perhaps the most absurd Batman villain that wasn't created by the Adam West tv show (that honor would go to LILAC MAN).

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2008-07-21 02:39pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The problem with the Mad Hatter is he's perhaps the most absurd Batman villain that wasn't created by the Adam West tv show (that honor would go to LILAC MAN).

I asume people like Crazy Quilt don't count.

So far all the movie villians have been very well adapted from the original version. Even Scarecrow felt appropriate to the story and was a good antagonist. I didn't think that they would use one of the more obscure "major villians" but it fit the theme and so it worked. Mad Hatter has all sorts of mind control devices, which perhaps could be toned down to manipulaiting people's emotions are something, and so would fit the theme better than anyone else I can think of.

Another possibility though is using Azrael as the antagonist and to contrast his more brutal methods versus Batman's methods.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-07-21 02:40pm

Yogi wrote:I asume people like Crazy Quilt don't count.

I'm pretty sure you made that up.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2008-07-21 02:53pm

Galvatron wrote:Or maybe the Nolanverse Penguin is just a thoroughly corrupt yet financially super-powerful business rival of Wayne Enterprises.

which would fit in nicely with the theme they introduced in The Dark Knight where Bruce refuses to do business with anyone who is not clean...

Mr. T · Post by **Mr. T** » 2008-07-21 03:14pm

I think Catwoman would fit in really well. She already has widespread name recognition and I've always thought she was the most interesting character aside from the Joker. She doesn't have any weird outlandish characteristics that wouldn't fit in with these movies the way someone like Mr. Freeze would.

I'd do a Catwoman and Harley Quinn movie. Maybe start the movie off at Arkham and only show the Joker through shadows or behind a screen with Mark Hamill doing the voice, then have Harley Quinn in a similar plot to the animated series be the psychatrist that's assigned to treat him, but instead ends up being corrupted by him and does his bidding. Not sure if that could be done in a way that's not cheesy, but it's a thought.

Or portray Harley Quinn as a female copy-cat of the Joker that just shows up one day to continue his work. Somehow tie in Catwoman, maybe making her a freelance small time criminal that gets swept up in a much larger criminal plot.

Vehrec · Post by **Vehrec** » 2008-07-21 03:23pm

Mad Hatter as some sort of Memetic manipulator who controls the media might be an interesting angle. Rather than direct conflict, a battle for hearts and minds and ad-time.

I think one way to make Harley work would be to have her put her psychologist hat back on and try to analyze Batman by staging crimes and watching how he responds. Of course, it is all done for the sake of her puddin', poor puddin', so sad that Batsy wouldn't play the game like he wanted. So now she's gotta catch a bat to cheer her puddin' up!

Ok, yeah, that was kinda lame.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2008-07-21 03:31pm

Ugh.

Some of these ideas are lame. Does anyone really think Nolan is going to make some anti-climactic third movie featuring the goofiest villains in Batman's rogues gallery?

The Wench · Post by **The Wench** » 2008-07-21 03:46pm

Galvatron wrote:Ugh.

Some of these ideas are lame. Does anyone really think Nolan is going to make some anti-climactic third movie featuring the goofiest villains in Batman's rogues gallery?

ALL of Batman's rogues are goofy. I mean a guy who looks like a clown and kills? Hello irony. A cat burglar that actually dresses like a cat? A guy with two faces and split personality so we call him...Two Face? How creative. They're all cliche and totally indicative of the times they were orginally created in...it's just finding a writer that portrays the multi-faceted aspects in a way that makes you forget how retarded they actually are. Batman alone is dumb. How can you not want to laugh at a guy who dresses like a bat?..but somehow we take him seriously when put in the proper context.

I think the struggle will be making a climactic third without wanting to introduce everyone that's significant in Batman's world, if indeed Nolan creates a third. Maybe leaving it alone will be his ultimate plan. Can he really top that? I don't know...But he's established Batman is utterly alone at this point. He's segregated himself, so introducing someone who can understand his duality and his severe isolation could bring Catwoman in nicely. However, I think a very edgy Riddler or Penguin could also work. They're all deeper characters with so much potential, but their introduction would induce further films. It should end instead of dragging out. Go out with a bang, I say.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2008-07-21 03:57pm

Galvatron wrote:Ugh.

Some of these ideas are lame. Does anyone really think Nolan is going to make some anti-climactic third movie featuring the goofiest villains in Batman's rogues gallery?

Ten-Eyed Man . . . the movie!!!

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2008-07-21 06:49pm

I say we get a bit of estrogen in and have:

Talia show up from Bruce's past, (with Damien in tow)
Bats attempting to catch an alusive thief... (awww Selena)
Gordon's Niece who after being wounded by the Joker becomes a super hacker...
Some chick whose CRAZY for the Joker....

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2008-07-21 06:55pm

^ Hmm, I didn't think of using Oracle without Batgirl, but it could work (though Gordon's daughter would have to age about ten years). Especially if, as I suspect, they kill off Lucius Fox in the next one.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-07-21 07:00pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote: Gordon's Niece who after being wounded by the Joker becomes a super hacker...

Wasn't the last superhero movie that had a young woman as a hacker Steel?

Pass.

hongi · Post by **hongi** » 2008-07-22 01:50am

The Wench wrote: I don't know...But he's established Batman is utterly alone at this point. He's segregated himself, so introducing someone who can understand his duality and his severe isolation could bring Catwoman in nicely.

If anything, Batman should remain in isolation. I know we're sorely lacking in female characters in Nolan-verse, but I just don't find it credible that Batman will get over Rachel's death so quickly.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2008-07-22 05:32am

Exactly..why do we need a new female interest for batman so soon?

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2008-07-22 09:44am

ray245 wrote:Exactly..why do we need a new female interest for batman so soon?

Indeed. The original series of Batman movies (starting in 1989) had the problem of Batman methodically and compulsively revealing his identity to every female he fancied which makes it somewhat hard to maintain a secret identity.

I like the idea of Harley Quinn appearing as Joker's lackey, doing her master's bidding. Just to make it even more delicious, the Joker (the idea of Mark Hamill doing the voice while the character itself remains in shadows is peculiar and darkly awesome) might not have any great plan or regard for Quinn; he'd put up an appearance of having some masterplan so that Harley would think there's a rhyme and reason to it all, while in truth the Clown Prince of Crime just likes to make everyone miserable, scared, insane and very probably dead.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-07-22 01:10pm

Tiriol wrote:
ray245 wrote:Exactly..why do we need a new female interest for batman so soon?
Indeed. The original series of Batman movies (starting in 1989) had the problem of Batman methodically and compulsively revealing his identity to every female he fancied which makes it somewhat hard to maintain a secret identity.

You mean like he did with Rachel? And technically, Viki Vale was Alfred's fault, Catwoman/Selina Kyle and Chase Meridian were both accidents. Although he wanted to with all three, he never did, so Bale's Batman is more guilty of this than Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney's Batman.

The Wench · Post by **The Wench** » 2008-07-22 03:52pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Some chick whose CRAZY for the Joker....

Where do I apply?...I have a resume...

Post by **Surlethe** » 2008-07-22 08:05pm

Why don't they just make up an entirely new villain, if they decide to have another Batman film? If there's so much difficulty in adapting the remaining ones from the comics, that seems the more reasonable way to go.

The Wench · Post by **The Wench** » 2008-07-22 11:41pm

Surlethe wrote:Why don't they just make up an entirely new villain, if they decide to have another Batman film? If there's so much difficulty in adapting the remaining ones from the comics, that seems the more reasonable way to go.

Why introduce a totally new character when they have a slew of ones that've never been tapped? To anyone but comic book readers, they'd appear new anyway. I'm all for introducing ventriloquist, actually...but they won't. I think people expect to see the oldies but goodies. Those common and campy characters sell tickets, and this is - in the end - all about money in the larger sense. Though I don't want to completely sully it. I agree with Hav when he said to me that he believes Nolan wants to do right by these characters, not make them a joke. And I agree with that, but if you can make a blockbuster, why not?

I don't think the directors/writers are going to have a problem adapting anyone on the screen, I just think it's us comic book readers who can't agree who they should adapt first and how and why and when because we want to see everyone before the fun runs out. I think some of us are just too emotionally invested sometimes. It can spoil it for everyone else.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-07-23 12:00am

I think almost any villain could be successfully used. Think about it; they've successfully pulled off Scarecrow, so why not Riddler, Penguin, Croc, etc? Had Scarecrow not been used, I'd probably be less inclined to think they could use a more "comicy" villain, but they've already done it.

No Robin.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2008-07-23 12:09am

A Nolanized Bane would be interesting. He has the intelligence, strength and fighting prowess to challenge Batman all by himself.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-07-23 01:53am

Dude... guys... seriously... King Tut.

No...wait...

KING TUT!!

No... wait...

KING TUT!

Ahhh. There we go!

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2008-07-23 03:10am

SPOILER warning in case.

With the direction of Batman being outcast is there any villain of his that can fake being good and go after him or something to that effect. Not sure what the agenda could be but could be better than trying to up the ante on what Joker has done. People like Catwoman I'm not sure how it would fit, she steals jewels so what. Needs to be more personal(identity wise) or need to top Joker's danger level.

The Wench · Post by **The Wench** » 2008-07-23 12:23pm

Meest wrote:SPOILER warning in case.

With the direction of Batman being outcast is there any villain of his that can fake being good and go after him or something to that effect. Not sure what the agenda could be but could be better than trying to up the ante on what Joker has done. People like Catwoman I'm not sure how it would fit, she steals jewels so what. Needs to be more personal(identity wise) or need to top Joker's danger level.

She steals jewels so what??? Catwoman isn't just some boring cat burgalar. She's a dual identity and eventually becomes one of the only 'villains' who knows Batman's identity because he reveals it to her. He trusts her in his own way because she understands his duality. That's not significant? Don't get me wrong, I don't love Catwoman, but she's a power player in Bruce's AND Batman's life, not just one or the other. She's one of the few that spans the gap. Why does everyone want to write her off?