Most Overrated Fantasy Writer - nominations!!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-07-07 09:04pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:BTW, as an advice - do not nominate authors generally considered hacks save for a few cult followers, even if they're really, really bad.
Is Anne McCaffrey considered a hack except for a small cult following? Because if she isn't, she should be. Furthermore, the old crone has some absolutely disgusting and homophobic theories which she demands her little group of cult fans accepts as scientific fact, when in fact they're a load of scientific nonsense up there with Magic Melanin and White Power.

What are you talking about, Marina? I read a couple of her books years ago and never noticed anything like that.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-07-07 09:09pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:I have to go with Tolkien here. I can't even BEGIN to read his works.

He's got a particular style and one that not everyone can read. But if you're one of the people that can, he's truly a genius and worthy of the praise. He didn't invent fantasy but he defined it as a genre in way no other author, in any genre, can claim.

Except for the moron fanboys, he's not overrated.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-07-07 09:21pm

Tolkien easily takes this. Sure he created a very cool and very detailed world. But he was not a good writer, period.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-07-07 09:28pm

Captain_Cyran wrote:Tolkien easily takes this. Sure he created a very cool and very detailed world. But he was not a good writer, period.

The only problem I see with this is how does he compared to the tiny amount of fanatsy writers that actually existed during the time he wrote his books.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-07-07 09:39pm

Tolkien and KJA.

LOTR is almost unreadable, it has a description for every single thing. Most of the chapters seem to consist of the Hobbits waking up, eating, complaining about the lack of food, walking, singing, and then sleeping. Then that repeats until they finally get somewhere. And I hate the singing, theres seems to be at least one song in every chapter, and I just ended up skipping them.

KJA: My problem with KJA is how he seems to rely on the whole superweapon of the week crap. I got pissed off in Darksaber, with a handful of Jedi students, of all things, defeating an Imperial fleet, including at least 45 ISD's commanded by Pellaeon. Not to mention the destruction of the Darksaber itself, the book builds up the whole danger of it, to just have it crushed by a fucking asteroid. Which brings me to another point, where the hell was that things shields?!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-07-07 10:54pm

Why the hell does everyone base their arguement on whether they can read Tolkien or not? The average person finds Shakespeare dull and hard to read, yet he's probably one of the greatest English language authors ever.

If ease of reading is all that matter, Terry Brook out to be king of fantasy for his repetitive, ripoff riddled, and flat out wanna-be Shannara series.

Jaded Masses · Post by **Jaded Masses** » 2003-07-07 11:39pm

Stormbringer wrote:Why the hell does everyone base their arguement on whether they can read Tolkien or not? The average person finds Shakespeare dull and hard to read, yet he's probably one of the greatest English language authors ever.

If ease of reading is all that matter, Terry Brook out to be king of fantasy for his repetitive, ripoff riddled, and flat out wanna-be Shannara series.

Damn Straight, It took some time to get into Lord of the Rings ( a chapter or two) but if you're willing to stay with the book there is a rich and deep story with extreme self-consistency that has so far rivaled all books I have read.

Though The Elric Saga by Michael Moorcock (poor guy...) came close.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-07-07 11:52pm

Well said, Stormbringer.

And Jadeite, I swear, your avatar is winking at me whenever it out of the center of my vision.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-07-08 12:06am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:And Jadeite, I swear, your avatar is winking at me whenever it out of the center of my vision.

Winking? Its not animated or anything, altho that is a cool idea.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-07-08 12:07am

Damn the lack of an edit button! I curse you editless forum! Anyway...

It could be flirting with your avatar.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-07-08 12:40am

And lastly, we can't forget Tad Williams. Anyone who has managed to survive reading through the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy must have great mental endurance and sleep resistance. I've not read anything more boring in the fantasy genre, ever. And that's saying a lot, as I've read quite a bit. Not only is his work mind-numbingly boring, it's also cookie-cuttered real world history with new names. Slash 2000 pages away from it and it would be readable, but just barely.

Heretic. Heathen. Die, die. Etc. Etc.

Robert Jordan as well. I can't believe I bought nine of his books.

And R.A. Salvatore. I can't believe I bought seven of his books.

And Glen Cook. I can't believe I bought nine of his books. No, er, wait, sorry. Glen Cook kicks ass. Nevermind.

But Terry Goodkind...I bought ONE book, and I will NEVER, EVER, buy another. That presumptous ass can kiss my slightly less presumptous ass.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-08 02:03am

Stormbringer wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:BTW, as an advice - do not nominate authors generally considered hacks save for a few cult followers, even if they're really, really bad.
Is Anne McCaffrey considered a hack except for a small cult following? Because if she isn't, she should be. Furthermore, the old crone has some absolutely disgusting and homophobic theories which she demands her little group of cult fans accepts as scientific fact, when in fact they're a load of scientific nonsense up there with Magic Melanin and White Power.
What are you talking about, Marina? I read a couple of her books years ago and never noticed anything like that.

Now, I've never read a book by McCaffrey, but maybe that disgusting homophobia starts later on in the series and gets progressively worse with each book from that on???

Post by **Edi** » 2003-07-08 04:07am

Singular Quartet wrote:
Edi wrote: Eddings writes entertaining stories with funny characters, but the Elenium and Tamuli trilogies are just a rehash of Belgariad and Malloreon, and The Redemption of Althalus is again the same story with the same characters who've had a cosmetic makeover. His works are, compared to many other authors (e.g. J.V. Jones, Stephen Donaldson, Raymond E. Feist), nothing spectacular, so Eddings does deserve a nomination. Eddings's best book by far is the non-fiction title The Losers. It wipes the floor with the rest of his works combined.

Edi
ACtually, I personally liked Donaldson's work (assuming we're talking about Stephen R., here) He can't write Sci-Fi for beans, but he did the Thomas Covanent Series rather well. As I recallm, an English teacher couldn't get through them because she hated Covenant so damn much.

Um, maybe you misunderstood? I've read most of Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series (currently reading The One Tree), and I mention his name there as someone whose works are good, original and worth reading. Maybe it's the wording, it can be a little confusing. Just thought I'd clear this up...

Edi

Post by **Edi** » 2003-07-08 04:20am

HemlockGrey wrote:And R.A. Salvatore. I can't believe I bought seven of his books.

Which ones? Icewind Dale trilogy, Dark Elf trilogy and the books from Spine of the World onward in the Drizz't saga are good quality, no way around it (especially Servant of the Shard kicks ass, but the Legacy of the Drow series wasn't as good). But if it's any of the others, I feel for you. I borrowed the Spearwielder's Tale trilogy from a friend and the Crimson Shadow and Demon Wars trilogies from the library and... bleurrgghhhh!

HemlockGrey wrote:And Glen Cook. I can't believe I bought nine of his books. No, er, wait, sorry. Glen Cook kicks ass. Nevermind.

Indeed he kicks ass! Time to check the libraries here if they have any of his stuff, I've only read the White Rose series and a couple of standalones from the Black company books...

HemlockGrey wrote:But Terry Goodkind...I bought ONE book, and I will NEVER, EVER, buy another. That presumptous ass can kiss my slightly less presumptous ass.

One book? And you feel hard done by? I've read the whole lot, and compared to what follows from the third book onward, and especially in Soul of the Fire and Faith of the Fallen, Wizard's First Rule is first-rate work. You have NO idea, not the faintest inkling, of how much Goodkind really sucks, as you haven't even seen him warming up yet.

Edi

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-07-08 04:25am

Never read Goodkind, or really even heard of him. What does he do that's so terrible?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-07-08 05:08am

Captain_Cyran wrote:Tolkien easily takes this. Sure he created a very cool and very detailed world. But he was not a good writer, period.

Excuse me? His works are well-written and highly lucid.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-07-08 05:11am

Simon H.Johansen wrote: Now, I've never read a book by McCaffrey, but maybe that disgusting homophobia starts later on in the series and gets progressively worse with each book from that on???

It was actually in an interview she gave, where she claimed that there are gay hormones that make people gay, and that these can be activated by anal sex, so that any sort of anal sex can make a man gay. She claimed this to be true because a friend of her's was anally violated by a tent-peg and afterwards became "effeminate and gay". Hence the name of this interview, the so-called "tent peg interview". She also claimed that lesbians do not exist, but instead there are just bisexual women who are basically deviant sluts, and that the normal ideal for women is to be quote "catholic" unquote.

Post by **Edi** » 2003-07-08 05:13am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Never read Goodkind, or really even heard of him. What does he do that's so terrible?

Trust me, if you need to ask that, then you really don't want to know. Or you can go and get his books from the library, but don't say you weren't warned. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

Edi

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-07-08 06:55am

Frank Herbert

And yes, I do consider it fantasy. I might be persuaded to exhibit tolerance for a lot of "Skiffy", but not this.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-07-08 07:24am

innerbrat wrote:Frank Herbert

And yes, I do consider it fantasy. I might be persuaded to exhibit tolerance for a lot of "Skiffy", but not this.

Eek. What problem do you have with the Lord Herbert's work?

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-07-08 07:48am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
innerbrat wrote:Frank Herbert

And yes, I do consider it fantasy. I might be persuaded to exhibit tolerance for a lot of "Skiffy", but not this.
Eek. What problem do you have with the Lord Herbert's work?

I just couldn't get through it - I made it to God Emperor... and then decided I had better things to do with my time.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-08 08:53am

Like stormbinger said, not being able to get through the book, or personal dislike does not make someone overrated. To use his analogy, most people couldn't get through a shakespeare play, and would dislike it, but they would not call shakespeare overrated.
I will cast my vote for Salvatore. I bought the demon trilogy, and semienjoyed it, but it was unoriginal, with poorly written romance, a prepencity to kill off the lovable characters and leave the stupid ones(a no no for popular fantasy), and a horrible ending that just set him up to make a sequal if he wanted. After finishing the last i was thouroughly disgusted with the work of this author who looked to be highly acclaimed for his writting talent.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-07-08 10:02am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Never read Goodkind, or really even heard of him. What does he do that's so terrible?

For starters, characters that he promotes as particularly clever people nonetheless do stupid things over and over and over.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-08 10:21am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: It was actually in an interview she gave, where she claimed that there are gay hormones that make people gay, and that these can be activated by anal sex, so that any sort of anal sex can make a man gay. She claimed this to be true because a friend of her's was anally violated by a tent-peg and afterwards became "effeminate and gay". Hence the name of this interview, the so-called "tent peg interview". She also claimed that lesbians do not exist, but instead there are just bisexual women who are basically deviant sluts, and that the normal ideal for women is to be quote "catholic" unquote.

EURGH!!!

However, did McCaffrey ever express her homophobia in her novels??? (subtly or directly??)

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-07-08 10:53am

Dark Hellion wrote:Like stormbinger said, not being able to get through the book, or personal dislike does not make someone overrated. To use his analogy, most people couldn't get through a shakespeare play, and would dislike it, but they would not call shakespeare overrated.
I will cast my vote for Salvatore. I bought the demon trilogy, and semienjoyed it, but it was unoriginal, with poorly written romance, a prepencity to kill off the lovable characters and leave the stupid ones(a no no for popular fantasy), and a horrible ending that just set him up to make a sequal if he wanted. After finishing the last i was thouroughly disgusted with the work of this author who looked to be highly acclaimed for his writting talent.

Fine. I dislike Herbert because he wrote fantasy and maskeraded it as Science Fiction (a personal peeve of mine, I'll admit), because The story just never seemed to be going anywhere, because he always seemed to hint that he was actually trying to say something but never actually did, and because he used the boring old messianic plot point of having a man that had powers that only women are supposed to have.

And I heavily disagree that most people couldn't get through a Shakespeare play. I've been a fan of Shakespeare for most of my life, and the only time I've ever seen anyone walk out is myself and a group of friends when a school drama group massacred Hamlet at the Edinburgh venue we shared. Maybe most people haven't read a shakespeare play, but they weren't meant to be read. they were meant to be acted.