The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)

[JME2]

Further his inability to move on past Rachel means he can't go forward as Bruce Wayne, either. Which is why we see him the way he is at the start of the movie.

I also don't envy the impossible choice Alfred had to make during TDK.

If Bruce had learned right then and there that Rachel wasn't going to wait for him, it would have destroyed him and he would have hung the cowl, Joker's rampage be dammed.

But by destroying the letter and trying to spare Bruce further pain, he made things worse in the long-run by preventing Bruce from moving forward with his life.

[Civil War Man]

The very idea that Bruce Wayne would lose someone he loved and spend 8 years in a sulk about it misses the fundamental essence of Bruce Wayne so wildly that I'm not even sure it can count as a Batman movie, even if this is the only one of the three in which Batman doesn't actually kill someone, which should count as a plus.

He does kill someone, even if you don't include the large number of people who would have doubtless been killed by collateral damage. During the chase at the end, he guns down the driver of the bomb truck with the machine guns on his helicopter.

[streetad]

I guess you forgot that he was no longer needed because of the lie built on Harvey's demise? What about the fact that he would be chased by police, hindering his ability to fight crime?

What about them? The idea that the one law can eliminate all crime in any city is a suspension of disbelief too far for me, just like the idea that being chased by the police would be an effective deterrent to the Bruce who went up the mountain in Begins (Or, you know, any interpretation of Bruce at all.)

The entire point of Bruce and Gordon's scheme was that Gotham had to see the Batman as an unambiguous villain and the city's legitimate law, enforcement as unambiguous heroes. The city had to put its faith in people like Dent and Gordon rather than violent vigilantes in order to function as a healthy society. Continuing to swoop in to save people from muggers and rapists every night would sort of undermine this plan a little bit?

[InnerBrat]

The very idea that Bruce Wayne would lose someone he loved and spend 8 years in a sulk about it misses the fundamental essence of Bruce Wayne so wildly that I'm not even sure it can count as a Batman movie, even if this is the only one of the three in which Batman doesn't actually kill someone, which should count as a plus.

He does kill someone, even if you don't include the large number of people who would have doubtless been killed by collateral damage. During the chase at the end, he guns down the driver of the bomb truck with the machine guns on his helicopter.

Thank you! I thought I might have missed something.

[Crown]

I guess you forgot that he was no longer needed because of the lie built on Harvey's demise? What about the fact that he would be chased by police, hindering his ability to fight crime?

What about them? The idea that the one law can eliminate all crime in any city is a suspension of disbelief too far for me, just like the idea that being chased by the police would be an effective deterrent to the Bruce who went up the mountain in Begins (Or, you know, any interpretation of Bruce at all.)

The law did not eliminate all crime in Gotham, only the organised part of it, well that's straight from the Mayor's opening speech at Wayne Manor.

[JLTucker]

I guess you forgot that he was no longer needed because of the lie built on Harvey's demise? What about the fact that he would be chased by police, hindering his ability to fight crime?

What about them? The idea that the one law can eliminate all crime in any city is a suspension of disbelief too far for me, just like the idea that being chased by the police would be an effective deterrent to the Bruce who went up the mountain in Begins (Or, you know, any interpretation of Bruce at all.)

The law did not eliminate all crime in Gotham, only the organised part of it, well that's straight from the Mayor's opening speech at Wayne Manor.

Yep. And via Begins and TDK, that's all Batman fought outside of Ra's and the Joker. He was no longer needed.

[Skylon]

Losing Rachel only gave him cause to not move on with his life as Bruce Wayne. It had nothing to do with him ceasing to be the Batman.

And InnerBrat, I am going to have to say that you may be the dumbest fucking person on the planet for saying it is out of character for Bruce Wayne to sulk for 8 years about losing a loved one.

I interpreted that during some of those 8 years Bruce still operated as Batman, in a far more clandestine manner. TDK ends, indicating he's still going to act as Gotham's... well... "Dark Knight"

All we know for sure is 8 years ago was Batman's last "confirmed" sighting.

[Ellindsey]

I finally saw this movie this weekend. Had I been seeing it alone, I would have walked out halfway through. When I mentioned this to my wife afterwards, she said she only stayed till the end to see if the movie actually got good at any point. It didn't. We both agreed that we would have been better off just watching the Avengers again.

All throughout the movie I was bothered by things that broke my suspension of disbelief. Stock markets don't work that way. Suspension bridges don't remain magically floating in mid-air after you blow the center segment out. Fusion reactors really, really don't work that way. Back injuries don't work that way. How is that magic hole in the ground prison even supposed to work? The government isn't going to just let a crazy person who claims to have a nuclear bomb hold a city hostage for months without trying anything. And I don't believe for a moment that Bruce Wayne would sit and sulk for 8 years without being either Batman or paying attention to Wayne Industries.

The thing is, I wouldn't normally care much about all the little things that break disbelief. I enjoyed the Avengers even though the Helicarrier is completely absurd on multiple levels. This movie just wasn't good enough to excuse all the plot holes - the actual plot was such a jumbled mess that I found myself picking holes in the logic and physics just to try and keep myself amused.

Very disappointed overall. I admit I hadn't gone into the movie with high expectations, but it didn't even meet what low expectations I had.

[PREDATOR490]

Mostly predictable movie.

Only thing that really, REALLY fucking annoys me is this insane notion that only the bad guys can use guns or kill people.
E.G That massive crowd of cops charging the criminals armed with machine guns in a confined street so they can fight hand-to-hand.

Batman being the most glaring example of cutting his own nose off to spite his face. Hey... I will put cannons, machine guns and assorted weaponary on my vehicles but when Catwomen starts shooting people I will whine about not killing people... because all guns have to be lethal and its more effective to resort to bat-fu. Batman fighting Bane equally bugged me for the simple fact it took him so long to figure out Bane had a clear vulnerability with the mask. If only Batman had a gun, knife or any kind of actual weapon beyond Bat-fu to exploit it.

Robin - Saw that coming a mile off although I will admit I didnt expect them to actually follow through to hammer it home to the folks who didnt get it yet.

Evil-Whatever - Soon as Bruce banged her I knew she was gonna die or be a bad guy. Catwoman is in the story... no way Batman isnt going to get some of that ass.

Catwoman - Well-Played, from an actor that has been painted as the fairy-tale princess it was interesting seeing her nail Catwoman so well.

Batman - I do not like Batman's limitations however, Bale does do a more likeable Batman.

Overall, the movie is a nice finale to the new series but they are certainly not perfect and have their flaws both new and old.

The only question now becomes - Will the call of money become so great they make more or... will we see another revival of Superman ?
My money is on Superman since this was so subtly advertised before Batman was shown.

[Gandalf]

I interpreted that during some of those 8 years Bruce still operated as Batman, in a far more clandestine manner. TDK ends, indicating he's still going to act as Gotham's... well... "Dark Knight"

All we know for sure is 8 years ago was Batman's last "confirmed" sighting.

Amusingly, if Batman was last active during TDK, it also means that the Batcave was never actually used for its purpose until TDKR. That's kind of a shame.

[JME2]

I interpreted that during some of those 8 years Bruce still operated as Batman, in a far more clandestine manner. TDK ends, indicating he's still going to act as Gotham's... well... "Dark Knight"

All we know for sure is 8 years ago was Batman's last "confirmed" sighting.

Amusingly, if Batman was last active during TDK, it also means that the Batcave was never actually used for its purpose until TDKR. That's kind of a shame.

Yeah, that was bugging me too.

[2000AD]

I have to say that I'm surprised at how negative some of the opinions here are. Though I don't agree with most of them I can at least see where people are coming from with some of the flaws they point out, but to go so far as to say you would have walked out half way through, seriously?

[JME2]

I wouldn't have. I enjoyed the movie enough and I wanted to see how Nolan would end his interpretation of Batman.

I thought it was kind of a cheat, but I acknowledge that Bruce Wayne deserved a happy ending.

[JME2]

Getting back to Talia for a minute, I liked how this version was different from the comics counterparts, mixing elements of both Bane's back-story and Ra's' estranged daughter Nyssa Raatko. It was not standard Talia and it was a nice consolation for already knowing 'Miranda' wasn't who she said. Part of me wishes 'Miranda' had been introduced in TDK so as to further sell the shock of her betrayal to Bruce, but I'll have to live with the business colleague of the past 3-years angle.

On a side note, I still think killing Nyssa was one of the biggest mistakes of the mid-2000's Batman books. Not as bad as evil Cassandra Cain or nuking Bludhaven, but still bad. I've really come around to Death and the Maidens in the last few years and part of me wishes it had been the last Ra's al Ghul story as Greg Rucka intended it to be.

[JLTucker]

I have to say that I'm surprised at how negative some of the opinions here are. Though I don't agree with most of them I can at least see where people are coming from with some of the flaws they point out, but to go so far as to say you would have walked out half way through, seriously?

Notice the complaints from the dude who said he'd have walked out. His idea of art is likely on a superficial level. Notice how he said nothing about whether the themes worked. Does it really matter that the stock market doesn't work that way? No. Who cares that Batman didn't have a gun?

[RogueIce]

Batman fighting Bane equally bugged me for the simple fact it took him so long to figure out Bane had a clear vulnerability with the mask.

Why should he assume Bane's mask is anything more than decoration like, well...most of Batman's costume? Are the pointy "ears" on Batman's cowl some kind of weak point where if you break one Batman's done? Of course not. (And yes, comic nerds, I know the ears have had stuff like radios and whatnot, but pretty sure Batman can still fight without comms)

There's really no reason for Batman to think punching Bane in the mask would do any more than, say, someone deliberately aiming for the Bat symbol on his own chest. It would be a punch to the mouth, that's about it, far as he knows.

Back to Blake-as-various-Robins parallels. Didn't Tim Drake also kinda become Robin because of the dark place Batman had gone after Jason Todd's death, so he helped bring Batman back from that? Blake also played a sorta roll similar to that, providing that push to Bruce to resume the mantle (or at least start looking into things) by confronting him when Gordon was injured.

Also by that logic, Rachel Dawes is now Jason Todd. heh heh heh...

[Ellindsey]

I have to say that I'm surprised at how negative some of the opinions here are. Though I don't agree with most of them I can at least see where people are coming from with some of the flaws they point out, but to go so far as to say you would have walked out half way through, seriously?

Notice the complaints from the dude who said he'd have walked out. His idea of art is likely on a superficial level. Notice how he said nothing about whether the themes worked. Does it really matter that the stock market doesn't work that way? No. Who cares that Batman didn't have a gun?

Gee, I'm sorry if nothing in the movie making any sense and the villain's plan being impossible for multiple reasons tends to distract me from the movie's 'themes'. Guess I'm just shallow that way.

[PREDATOR490]

Batman fighting Bane equally bugged me for the simple fact it took him so long to figure out Bane had a clear vulnerability with the mask.

Why should he assume Bane's mask is anything more than decoration like, well...most of Batman's costume? Are the pointy "ears" on Batman's cowl some kind of weak point where if you break one Batman's done? Of course not. (And yes, comic nerds, I know the ears have had stuff like radios and whatnot, but pretty sure Batman can still fight without comms)

Bane's mask is not superficial and is hardly a leap of logic for anyone who sees it to conclude. The dude on the plane at the start noticed. I would expect Batman to be more capable than a redshirt. Instead Batman decides to deploy Bat-fu impotently against a lumbering wall of muscle rather than go for the face shots. Later we see Batman doing just that leading to success.

[Ellindsey]

Batman fighting Bane equally bugged me for the simple fact it took him so long to figure out Bane had a clear vulnerability with the mask.

Why should he assume Bane's mask is anything more than decoration like, well...most of Batman's costume? Are the pointy "ears" on Batman's cowl some kind of weak point where if you break one Batman's done? Of course not. (And yes, comic nerds, I know the ears have had stuff like radios and whatnot, but pretty sure Batman can still fight without comms)

Bane's mask is not superficial and is hardly a leap of logic for anyone who sees it to conclude. The dude on the plane at the start noticed. I would expect Batman to be more capable than a redshirt. Instead Batman decides to deploy Bat-fu impotently against a lumbering wall of muscle rather than go for the face shots. Later we see Batman doing just that leading to success.

Arguably, Batman was really not working at anything like his normal capacity in the first fight against Bane. He had done little if any crimefighting for 8 years, was in terribly physical condition, and was probably badly out of practice. It wasn't just that he didn't target the mask - he really wasn't using any clever tactics or strategy in that first fight. It wasn't till he got beat up and then went to the magic hole in the ground prison to recover that he was ready to come back and put up a better, smarter fight.

[Skylon]

I wouldn't have. I enjoyed the movie enough and I wanted to see how Nolan would end his interpretation of Batman.

I thought it was kind of a cheat, but I acknowledge that Bruce Wayne deserved a happy ending.

It's also not totally out of left field. We've just been fed so much "Batman until he dies" interpretations over the years. Earth-2 Batman eventually retired and became Gotham's Police Commissioner and married Selina Kyle (albeit, putting on the cape and cowl one final time, and dying in the process).

Since Nolan tried to be a bit more grounded I also appreciated the point that it was physically impossible for someone to be Batman for very long.

Edit:

Arguably, Batman was really not working at anything like his normal capacity in the first fight against Bane. He had done little if any crimefighting for 8 years, was in terribly physical condition, and was probably badly out of practice.

As Bane observed, Wayne was also trying to fight him like a "younger man" and it showed. Bruce tried to savagely kick the crap out of him, and he couldn't match Bane's ferocity in his condition, and with Bane at his prime.

[InnerBrat]

I have to say that I'm surprised at how negative some of the opinions here are. Though I don't agree with most of them I can at least see where people are coming from with some of the flaws they point out, but to go so far as to say you would have walked out half way through, seriously?

Personally I really enjoyed the movie despite it clearly being about some original character rather than about Batman. It was fun; there was a pleasing amount of Batmannery (n: the suite of skills at which I suck in the Arkham games) Anne Hathway and Gary Oldman were amazing, and John Blake was a really good character.

It was way better than Amazing Spider-Man, at any rate.

Notice the complaints from the dude who said he'd have walked out. His idea of art is likely on a superficial level.

[Scrib]

All throughout the movie I was bothered by things that broke my suspension of disbelief. Stock markets don't work that way. Suspension bridges don't remain magically floating in mid-air after you blow the center segment out. Fusion reactors really, really don't work that way. Back injuries don't work that way. How is that magic hole in the ground prison even supposed to work? The government isn't going to just let a crazy person who claims to have a nuclear bomb hold a city hostage for months without trying anything. And I don't believe for a moment that Bruce Wayne would sit and sulk for 8 years without being either Batman or paying attention to Wayne Industries.

Nitpicks: Did Bruce bet on stocks? I think it was futures trading, which is apparently more volatile and it's much easier to fuck up on a huge scale. But I know little of finance either way.

Bruce didn't stop working for Wayne Enterprises. I'm pretty sure he only quit being Batman, for obvious reasons, see what happened eight years later when he came out. According to Miranda Tate he dedicated his energy to the fusion project and went into hiding when it failed.

You have way more faith in the government that I. I think no one simply wanted to take the blame. AttackBane and his men and it turns out that the bomb was underground? Everyone's fucked. (Not to mention that they did do something)

Arguably, Batman was really not working at anything like his normal capacity in the first fight against Bane. He had done little if any crimefighting for 8 years, was in terribly physical condition, and was probably badly out of practice. It wasn't just that he didn't target the mask - he really wasn't using any clever tactics or strategy in that first fight. It wasn't till he got beat up and then went to the magic hole in the ground prison to recover that he was ready to come back and put up a better, smarter fight.

Yup.Batman was clearly landing punches on Bane the first time. It just didn't matter because of his mask, I just assumed that it was providing him with a painkiller. Second time, he went straight for it because of what he heard in the prison. I don't think that he could have bulked up that much down there, he was just smarter.

[InnerBrat]

Bruce didn't stop working for Wayne Enterprises. I'm pretty sure he only quit being Batman, for obvious reasons, see what happened eight years later when he came out. According to Miranda Tate he dedicated his energy to the fusion project and went into hiding when it failed.

There were a few references to his absent status, not limited to the fact that all the funding for orphans dried up when he took a back seat role and was unaware that the company was tanking.

You have way more faith in the government that I. I think no one simply wanted to take the blame. AttackBane and his men and it turns out that the bomb was underground? Everyone's fucked. (Not to mention that they did do something)

Many people thought the plot of No Man's Land was unrealistic and the US Government would never write off an entire city like that. Then five years later Katrina happened.

[Scrib]

Bruce didn't stop working for Wayne Enterprises. I'm pretty sure he only quit being Batman, for obvious reasons, see what happened eight years later when he came out. According to Miranda Tate he dedicated his energy to the fusion project and went into hiding when it failed.

There were a few references to his absent status, not limited to the fact that all the funding for orphans dried up when he took a back seat role and was unaware that the company was tanking.

Fair enough. I didn't phrase my statement correctly, seeing as the first and last sentences contradict each other. What I meant to say was that Bruce didn't quit Wayne Enterprises the same time that he quit being Batman.

[Gandalf]

Nitpicks: Did Bruce bet on stocks? I think it was futures trading, which is apparently more volatile and it's much easier to fuck up on a huge scale. But I know little of finance either way.

It was indeed futures, and options too I think.