Gatts(Berserk)is sent to Discworld..

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Cyborg Stan
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Post by Cyborg Stan »

Smiling Bandit wrote:
Incorrect. Can you see microscopic fractures? You know why we have electron microscopes? You won't be able to see a slit that's only an atom in width. And you still expect us to believe that it's Planck-Width on your say-so.
Irrelevcant; once the edge has been severed, without friction there's nothing but gravity that would hold it together. So the sword can cut through any matter like butter.
Evidence is apparently a concept that escapes your little head. Or does it occur to you that for such a sword to be able to stick in a pillar it would have to be shoved in perfectly horizontal (from the side to side, the point can still point downwards from the hilt), without any unevenness in the force used?

And how is it irrevalent that we can't see the hole if it were an atom in width? Saying that we can see it shows ignorance on multiple levels.

Physics : The wavelengths of visible light are far larger than a single atom. That's why we have to electron microscopes to resolve very small objects - electrons can be made to have a smaller wavelength. And it's still not enough to resolve individual atoms, which we have to use scanning tunneling microscopes to do so.

Geometry : On top of that, it would disappear at any off-angle, such as the one that's automatically dictated by the distance between one's eyes.

Biology : The rods and the cones in the eye detect light, with a threshold of at least ten photons to trigger it. If nothing else, they are relatively macroscopic. A single atom's width would not contribute even light to make a difference in anything above pitch black.

Psychology : A hole that's on the threshold of visibility would not be noticed by most people. It would be, if noticed, probably mistaken as the trick of the eyes, then next level would be labeled mentally as a crack, then a slit. It would be nearly impossible for someone to comment on how smooth it is because the irregularities in the stone pillar itself would in all probability be greater than the width of the hole.
Now, quit simply saying that it's a Planck-Length blade and provide evidence. Or for that matter, STFU about Planck Lengths if you have no idea of it's implications. Who the hell are you trying to impress?
I'm not trying to impress anyone. The sword does what the Rightful King needs it to; it cuts things. It doesn't need magic, because it has a Story, too. And its story is all about cutting things. Soft things, hard things, whatever it needs to to fulfill Carrot's Story.
Not trying to impress anyone? Most people, for something really, really sharp, would limit it as monomolecular. It wouldn't get smaller than this because normal stuff is still made of atoms. If you're trying to say that it's Story-sharp it would be fine with me, but Planck-Length has actual objective implications that you are blissfully unaware of. Heck, the effects don't match that of a monomolecular blade either. Take a fucking carrot and make a clean break in it. You can then carefully put the pieces back together so you can't see any break. The only damn reason to put in Planck Length is to lend your claim a false sense of legimaticity.
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Post by Smiling Bandit »

Evidence is apparently a concept that escapes your little head. Or does it occur to you that for such a sword to be able to stick in a pillar it would have to be shoved in perfectly horizontal (from the side to side, the point can still point downwards from the hilt), without any unevenness in the force used?
Yes, it did. Which is only relevant if the blade was still cutting. Hence the whole "arbitrary" in my description. It cuts things arbitrarily. It does not have to cut things. Otherwise, Carrot couldn't sheath the damned thing.
And how is it irrevalent that we can't see the hole if it were an atom in width? Saying that we can see it shows ignorance on multiple levels.
I'm goign to stop being nice now.

Look, you egotistical idiot, regardless of how thin the fucking edge of the god-damned blade is, it doesn't have to be the Plank Length along its entire width or thickness. And regardless of whether or not its scientifically accurate to say its a Plank-Length edge (given that the disc has no science as such), that is the effective comparable reality for the sword. I well know the properties of a Plank sword. I had the opportunity to learn about the concept some time ago, and Carrot's sword is directly comparable.

This is what Story-Sharpness does. So why are you compaining about how I describe it?
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Post by 2000AD »

Cyborg Stan wrote:How dirty does he fight?
In his first bar fight (just a few days after moving to the city) he kicked a troll "in the rocks". This is assumed to mean the trolls privates as trolls are quite literally rocks

Can he kill consiously kill a fellow man without flinching?
Yes, as demonstrated when he killed Dr Cruces (Dr Downey?). As Vimes said evil men will stop and gloat but a good man will kill you without a word.

Also the OP states that Gatts is up against the entire watch so even if he does beat Carrot he's still got numerous Dwarfs and Trolls and a Golem to beat.
Also there's Buggy Swires the Gnome who is probably the hardest opponent. Gnomes may only be 6 inches tall but they have all the strength of a normal man if not more. They can survive being trodden on by an average man with no injury and then lift said man up and throw him. Just four of them can steal a cow (one at each hoof). Just one their headbutts can kill a fox, break a mans knee and when used repeatably knock out a bull in about a minute (there's also a documented case of one twisting a bulls horn off.)
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Post by Cyborg Stan »

Smiling Bandit wrote:Yes, it did. Which is only relevant if the blade was still cutting. Hence the whole "arbitrary" in my description. It cuts things arbitrarily. It does not have to cut things. Otherwise, Carrot couldn't sheath the damned thing.
Planck Length isn't arbitrary.
I'm goign to stop being nice now.
Ahh, poor baby doesn't like being spanked?
Look, you egotistical idiot, regardless of how thin the fucking edge of the god-damned blade is, it doesn't have to be the Plank Length along its entire width or thickness.
If it isn't Planck Length along it's entire width and thickness, then the parts with signficant width would have to be able to move/crush/displace the material. (Would this be easy in a stone pillar?) I already covered this.
And regardless of whether or not its scientifically accurate to say its a Plank-Length edge
Then don't claim Planck Length. Planck Length isn't something that you'll come across in a causal conversation or even the more basic physics.
(given that the disc has no science as such), that is the effective comparable reality for the sword. I well know the properties of a Plank sword.
Considering that you missed the part about it still having to break bonds in order to do anything, or claimed that it could have signficant thickness for the rest of the part (while missing the part where it has to crush the stone in a pillar enough to make a visible hole, the entire point of having it Planck Length along it's entire width is to avoid having to answer that question) I think not.
I had the opportunity to learn about the concept some time ago, and Carrot's sword is directly comparable.
Such as the part where a Planck Length blade can't leave a visible hole, and one that's merely Planck Length along the edge will still have to move/crush material? Claiming you know about Planck Length when you can't even apply simpler concepts properly is like bragging about the F-16 in your garage when you can't even figure out bumper cars.
This is what Story-Sharpness does. So why are you compaining about how I describe it?
You fucking retarded monkey - while Carrot's sword might be Story Sharp (Which I already said that I have no problems it being described that way), Planck Length itself has actual implications beyond that. Did you miss that part, because I already explained that.
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Post by Smiling Bandit »

Considering that you missed the part about it still having to break bonds in order to do anything, or claimed that it could have signficant thickness for the rest of the part (while missing the part where it has to crush the stone in a pillar enough to make a visible hole, the entire point of having it Planck Length along it's entire width is to avoid having to answer that question) I think not.
Are you simply being deliberately obtuse so you can whine about your favorite wank-off character some more? I provided a metaphorical interpretation using a scientific concept. With a Plank-Length edge you can easily cut through almost any theoretical bond; hell, oxygen molecule in the air might even cut themselves on the edge of the blade.
Planck Length isn't arbitrary.
Ok, no I know you simply aren't even bothering to read what I've posted. Arbitrary, as in in arbitrarily cuts things. Dumb-ass.
If it isn't Planck Length along it's entire width and thickness, then the parts with signficant width would have to be able to move/crush/displace the material. (Would this be easy in a stone pillar?) I already covered this.
We've already established Carrot's strong enough to punch out a rock. Are you going to compain because he didn't bother to describe every microsecond of action? His sword's edge sliced right through stone without even twitching; Carrot's muscle power alone would be more than sufficient to shove the cleanly-sliced stone out of the way.
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Post by Cyborg Stan »

Since you seem to be having a problem following the discussion, I provided a very simplified diagram.

Happy Joy

Note : this simply means that sharpness alone cannot explain what we see. Try reading my first post in this thread :
Cyborg Stan wrote:First off : Stabbing a sword through stone requires great strength (Why you argue otherwise is beyond me, because a sword is dependant on it's wielder. Carrot's sword isn't going to fight for him.) no matter how sharp it is. If it makes a hole it just means that there's alot of pressure from the very tip of it. (Nails have a sharp point but are round in cross section. Where's the evidence of the sharpness of the edge, which is what would be cutting another blade.) However, the blade will still have to move aside/crush/etc the rock it displaces. (Would making nails sharper and frictionless allow them to drop into wood as it were water?)
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Post by Smiling Bandit »

Stabbing a sword through stone requires great strength (Why you argue otherwise is beyond me, because a sword is dependant on it's wielder. Carrot's sword isn't going to fight for him.) no matter how sharp it is.
That's your problem. It has a story, too. It can't wield itself, but it *DOES* fight for him.

Anway, you are restating your argument without actually adressing my response.
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Post by SirNitram »

Smiling Bandit wrote:
Stabbing a sword through stone requires great strength (Why you argue otherwise is beyond me, because a sword is dependant on it's wielder. Carrot's sword isn't going to fight for him.) no matter how sharp it is.
That's your problem. It has a story, too. It can't wield itself, but it *DOES* fight for him.

Anway, you are restating your argument without actually adressing my response.
Bandit, do you want to suffer a cruel fate? You've shown no proof for your conclusion.
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Post by Cyborg Stan »

I suppose I should point out now, if it wasn't apparent before, then main reason I pointed out there's still the move/crush requirement was not to weaken the Discworld side, but because I found the idea that it will be effortless a stupid idea, and a Planck Length blade infinitely more so. Does this really sound like a negative argument to you?

"The guy was so strong that he was able to throw a non-magical sword so that it was able to imbed itself into a tone pillar almost up to the hilt, leaving a clean hole behind. And that wasn't even considered all that hard a throw for him!
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Post by SirNitram »

Cyborg Stan wrote:I suppose I should point out now, if it wasn't apparent before, then main reason I pointed out there's still the move/crush requirement was not to weaken the Discworld side, but because I found the idea that it will be effortless a stupid idea, and a Planck Length blade infinitely more so. Does this really sound like a negative argument to you?

"The guy was so strong that he was able to throw a non-magical sword so that it was able to imbed itself into a tone pillar almost up to the hilt, leaving a clean hole behind. And that wasn't even considered all that hard a throw for him!
Carrot is clearly strong; he does the equivalent of punching an eight foot marble statue and knocking it over, and doesn't break his fist. However, it's clear his sword is unnaturally sharp. I'm not going to throw psudeoscience into itl; it's just damn sharp.
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Post by ShinjiGohan »

LadyTevar wrote:
Smiling Bandit wrote: No, the Story has limits. Or rather, a Story is not absolutely set. There are a lot of tales about Righteous Kings who died, too, y'know.

Sadly for the alternate Carrot-that-never-was, one of the greatest stories involves Kings who defend their realms from vicious invaders, finally dying after taking a dozen men down with them. The Story doesn't make him invulnerable, but damned close to it. There are simply some things that *cannot* kill him. And in this case, gatts most certainly doesn't fit into that role; ergo he cannot kill Carrot.
A good example of this is Boromir from LoTR. Call it the 'Boromir Syndrome', where you die surrounded by dozens, if not scores, of your foes before you finally give in and let those damn arrows kill you.
So, yes, the Carrot-that-never-was would have probably fallen in a similar scenario.
and??? Gatsu goes through this scenrio every single night after the Ecilipse. Which was at least 2 years. Not to mention including the ecilipse, and when he was saving Caska, that dubbed him the Century Man slayer. Except Gatsu didn't give up, and continued to live and kill the hundreds of thousands of demons/armed knights.
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Post by ShinjiGohan »

SirNitram wrote:
ShinjiGohan wrote:So a weaker, worse swordsman, with inferior equipment Carrot will win just because of roles? Gatsu's character kills the people that eats people of Carrots roles for breakfast.
Except they don't have a Story around them. As I've shown, for a Discworldian, this is more powerful than 'oh, character shields'.
Yea, apostiles of the god hand (calling them demi gods wouldn't be that far off), with having 200 pages of manga to inform us as to their story, with an entire volume of manga based on them. Yep, thats a character without any story. :roll:
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Post by SirNitram »

ShinjiGohan wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
ShinjiGohan wrote:So a weaker, worse swordsman, with inferior equipment Carrot will win just because of roles? Gatsu's character kills the people that eats people of Carrots roles for breakfast.
Except they don't have a Story around them. As I've shown, for a Discworldian, this is more powerful than 'oh, character shields'.
Yea, apostiles of the god hand (calling them demi gods wouldn't be that far off), with having 200 pages of manga to inform us as to their story, with an entire volume of manga based on them. Yep, thats a character without any story. :roll:
If you're not going to read the thread and process the information within, don't bother posting.
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Post by Smiling Bandit »

Bandit, do you want to suffer a cruel fate? You've shown no proof for your conclusion.
I;m not trying to prove it; I'm trying to show whats its capabilities are like by scientific simile. Its not that Carrot's sword *is* such a thing, its that it acts somewhat like one.
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Post by SirNitram »

Smiling Bandit wrote:
Bandit, do you want to suffer a cruel fate? You've shown no proof for your conclusion.
I;m not trying to prove it; I'm trying to show whats its capabilities are like by scientific simile. Its not that Carrot's sword *is* such a thing, its that it acts somewhat like one.
No. It doesn't. That's been explained to you in plain English. Don't be a dipshit, if that's possible.
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Post by ShinjiGohan »

SirNitram wrote:
ShinjiGohan wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Except they don't have a Story around them. As I've shown, for a Discworldian, this is more powerful than 'oh, character shields'.
Yea, apostiles of the god hand (calling them demi gods wouldn't be that far off), with having 200 pages of manga to inform us as to their story, with an entire volume of manga based on them. Yep, thats a character without any story. :roll:
If you're not going to read the thread and process the information within, don't bother posting.
So basicly if I don't believe that Carrot will win just cuz he's carrot, and I disagree with your opinion, despite the fact that I did read the topic, my opinion isn't wanted. Yea, its great when debating if you don't have an open mind, especially about characters you don't know anything about.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

*sigh*

This is why you don't use the Disc for setting. :roll:
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Post by Cosmic Average »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:*sigh*

This is why you don't use the Disc for setting. :roll:
*Sigh*

As of page two, the setting is Rohan.
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Post by 2000AD »

And *sigh*, it's not just Carrot it's the entire watch so how is Gatts going to deal with Detritus' Piecemanker ? Or the numerous trolls and dwarfs? Or Buggy Swires?
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Post by SirNitram »

ShinjiGohan wrote:So basicly if I don't believe that Carrot will win just cuz he's carrot, and I disagree with your opinion, despite the fact that I did read the topic, my opinion isn't wanted. Yea, its great when debating if you don't have an open mind, especially about characters you don't know anything about.
If you can't accept that Discworld characters create little realms of subjective reality around them(Or would you like to try arguing that Stories don't extend past the Disc? Sorry; they work into the Dungeon Dimensions, a realm far outside anything as structured as Rohan or Beserk's world), then you can piss off. Of course this makes it rather futile to send a character against a Discworldian. It's also futile to send a shuttlepod against a GSV.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

Actaully when some poeple here started saying Gatts wouldn't fit in ME but nothing about a ordinary blade cutting thru marble thats when you proved this is just say so.
Gatts is the abtomb of the Lone Swordfighter one a Quest of Righteos Vengous, if he is after these characters they must of commited a act of injustice (raped a child or burned down a village of inncoent people your pick) and he is after them to kill them like all the monsters of Gatts world.

Victory Gatts.
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Post by SirNitram »

Darth_Shinji wrote:Actaully when some poeple here started saying Gatts wouldn't fit in ME but nothing about a ordinary blade cutting thru marble thats when you proved this is just say so.
Gatts is the abtomb of the Lone Swordfighter one a Quest of Righteos Vengous, if he is after these characters they must of commited a act of injustice (raped a child or burned down a village of inncoent people your pick) and he is after them to kill them like all the monsters of Gatts world.

Victory Gatts.
Not what the OP says, so, no. The OP specifically states he's been driven mad and sent after them. This means that the Stories of quite a few(Specifically, Carrot and Granny) will cause him to not be destroyed, but rendered Sane and apologetic about the whole mess. That's one aspect of the OP not changed.
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Post by Darth_Shinji »

SirNitram wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:Actaully when some poeple here started saying Gatts wouldn't fit in ME but nothing about a ordinary blade cutting thru marble thats when you proved this is just say so.
Gatts is the abtomb of the Lone Swordfighter one a Quest of Righteos Vengous, if he is after these characters they must of commited a act of injustice (raped a child or burned down a village of inncoent people your pick) and he is after them to kill them like all the monsters of Gatts world.

Victory Gatts.
Not what the OP says, so, no. The OP specifically states he's been driven mad and sent after them. This means that the Stories of quite a few(Specifically, Carrot and Granny) will cause him to not be destroyed, but rendered Sane and apologetic about the whole mess. That's one aspect of the OP not changed.
Well I'll give you that know that I know how Disc World works. Although normaly I would say his story is prob one of the strongest there is (Who's Story can beat a Lone Swordsman on a quest of rightous vengous?) plus his conan probility (the more immpossible the battle the more likly he is too win) field is stronger than conans (even Conan didn't fight superhuman demons every night).

And the whole ME thing still is kinda stupid.
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Post by SirNitram »

Darth_Shinji wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:Actaully when some poeple here started saying Gatts wouldn't fit in ME but nothing about a ordinary blade cutting thru marble thats when you proved this is just say so.
Gatts is the abtomb of the Lone Swordfighter one a Quest of Righteos Vengous, if he is after these characters they must of commited a act of injustice (raped a child or burned down a village of inncoent people your pick) and he is after them to kill them like all the monsters of Gatts world.

Victory Gatts.
Not what the OP says, so, no. The OP specifically states he's been driven mad and sent after them. This means that the Stories of quite a few(Specifically, Carrot and Granny) will cause him to not be destroyed, but rendered Sane and apologetic about the whole mess. That's one aspect of the OP not changed.
Well I'll give you that know that I know how Disc World works. Although normaly I would say his story is prob one of the strongest there is (Who's Story can beat a Lone Swordsman on a quest of rightous vengous?) plus his conan probility (the more immpossible the battle the more likly he is too win) field is stronger than conans (even Conan didn't fight superhuman demons every night).
Oh, certainly. It'd be a far more even match if it wasn't literally spelling out the Story where Gatts is going to fail(It specifically states Terminator-like sending.. We know who lost in The Terminator.).
And the whole ME thing still is kinda stupid.
Like most attempts to artificially tilt the matchup, it is very stupid.

Remember, kids, don't use Disc characters in matchups. Subjective reality is not good for debates.
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Post by ShinjiGohan »

2000AD wrote:And *sigh*, it's not just Carrot it's the entire watch so how is Gatts going to deal with Detritus' Piecemanker ? Or the numerous trolls and dwarfs? Or Buggy Swires?

same way he deals with all of these people.
These first three is willing going into fire to kill the swarm of intelligent insects, that eat people and cows in seconds (like Piranas sp?)
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http://shinjigohan.greatstreamingvideo.com/berserk2.jpg
http://shinjigohan.greatstreamingvideo.com/berserk4.jpg

Here a bunch of people that have been turned into insects. So they are of human size, intelligence, but with the comparitive speed and strength of the insects.
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An apostile of the god hand that moves at mach 1, uses the needle on the head and the void behind her to kill her opponent.
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The remains of a battlefield, where ALL of the fallen soldiers come back to life.
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A bunch of dogs and 1 horse that were possessed and attacked Gatsu
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showing a few flesh eatting blobs, which Gatsu had to go through to save Caska.
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showing the rest of the blobs
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An army of soldiers, all want Gatsu's head, as well as killing the reborn Griffithsu, which Gatsu fought through to free Caska.
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Human form of Zod having to resort to two swords when one of his swords gets a crack in it, in which Gatsu quickly responds by using another sword in conjunction with his dragon slayer.
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Hundreds of Trolls come to attack a town where Gatsu, and a few acquaintences of his save the town. Also has a Kelpie and an Orge.
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Showing a man possessed by a apostile of the god hand, whipping his aze as fast as a whip, and yet Gatsu was able to see and block off of the attacks.
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Also survived against all this apostiles of the god hand during the sacrafice.
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I'll post some more.

Gatsu is an expert swordsman, that swings his dragon slayer almost as easily as a fencer uses a foil (as seen when he fought Serperico), along with a mini cannon in his arm, a gatling arrow crossbow. He is accostumed to fighting hordes of soldiers, monsters, 25 archers (easily blocks all the arrows).

Could he lose here? Sure, but he also has a good chance of pulling through as he always does.
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