AMC's "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Discussion (Spoilers)

[Moby Halcyon]

If they had killed Darryl off I would have dropped this show like a turd from out of my ass and then flushed it away.

Christ, truer words have never been spoken. The Michael Rooker hallucinations make we look forward for when he eventually does show up in the flesh - if the writers were smart they'd keep Darryl around for a good long while.

[TheHammer]

They've invested a lot of character development in Daryl this season. Unless the actor leaves the series I wouldn't expect to see him offed anytime soon. I'd expect to see Glen, Dale, Andrea etc as more potential for "major" characters to be offed. They've got enough screen time for a dramatic effect, but not so much that the fans would riot.

[Zixinus]

What I kind of didn't understand, is why they thought that the zombie-in-the-well wasn't infecting the well just by being there. He's decayed, bloated, probably injured by whatever turned him into a zombie and in the water for god-knows-how-long. Who knows how much of the fluids inside it have gone. That well is good as useless. The only reason why they should just kill the thing is to prevent it being a possible problem.
No reason why they even had to use bait. Why not just use loud noises to agitate it.

I kind of liked Maggie's odd behaviour and Glenn's cluelessness. Somehow it's cute and I was ending up hoping that if the group leaves, Glenn stays with a new wife.

As for Darly... he's odd, but unlike the others, he's doing shit rather than just moping around and shouting at other people. He still could have asked permission about taking a horse though.

[Stofsk]

Getting the zombie out of the well is still a good idea, simply because that water could be used for other purposes than consumption. Now it's a total write-off, because they were so incompetent with their plan to get the fucker out of there.

[Themightytom]

This episode was so predictable i didn't really have much to say about it. Andrea's a moron, that was inevitable, Glenn is hapless, that was obvious, Rick is indecisive, Shane is Grimdark, Lori is awkwardly torn, and Darryl is off by himself being a badass.

life on the farm is really fucking boring.

[FSTargetDrone]

(Leaving the production costs of using new sets/locations other than on the farm aside for the moment) I'd like to see more of the background stories of the others. They could intersperse that and cut out some of the extraneous stuff on the farm. We saw some of Lori, Shane, Carl, Carol and her family on the highway before the bombings, but what about T-Dog? What's his backstory? I don't think that's been explored at all. We know Glenn delivered pizzas, but how did he find himself with the group? Let's see a bit more of how these people heard about the apocalypse. Was Dale stopped for the night at a campground only to find the park staff and other guests shambling about the next morning? Did Andrea and her sister ignorantly drive into a town while on their road trip (where did they come from, anyway?) and see it overrun with Walkers? How fast did the incident with people rising from the dead spread in the first place? Where there scattered reports, was it mentioned on the news, and then suddenly whole cities fell? It seems like it sort of happened all of a sudden, with rapid mobilizations of military responding. Flashbacks, flashbacks, more flashbacks! I mean, what the hell, this stuff writes itself and it would break up the Farm business.

[spaceviking]

The problem with showing those parts of the zombie Apocalypse is the more you show the less sense it makes. The army should have mowed through them. Even regular people should could have given the zombies high losses.

[Themightytom]

The problem with showing those parts of the zombie Apocalypse is the more you show the less sense it makes. The army should have mowed through them. Even regular people should could have given the zombies high losses.

I don't know I could see a sweeping epidemic crippling any kind of response mechanism. that is generally the concern with whatever latest flu variant springs up. If say a quarter of the population becomes rapidly incapacitated, there would be a significant breakdown of basic services, because people just wouldn't show up to work. Others wouldn't be showing up to work because they are caring for their feverish loved ones.

Overcrowded hospitals, overtaxed resources, than throw ZOMBIES into that. People start rising from the dead, violently attacking those who were caring for them, and may themselves have become ill. Even as a response was organized you'd have that hesitation and public outcry against massacring creatures that were people just days ago.

Look at Herschel, the guy is trying to hide some in his barn, like the disease will get cured, or go away or run it's course or something. I can see how that on a larger level would hamper emergency response on a national level.

Look at occupy Wall st and the public response to that 84 yr old who was maced. If police were only using mace at the CDC, that would easily explain how it was quickly overrun. Rick was actually given the advantage of perspective. As shocking as it was to wake up and find a world full of zombies, look at his first encounter.

She was clearly dead, there was clearly something wrong, she didn't get close enough to hurt him, and he was prepared...kind of, for the context of the situation. The dead as depicted here are clearly dead. Can you imagine in a hospital though, checking on a patient who was alive a few hours ago, showed virtually no signs of decomposition, and discovering that it was a mindless killing machine?

I think that's why the soldiers were mowing down the medical staff along side the patients in Shane's flash back. They couldn't tell who was infected and who wasn't. Unfortunately, they clearly didn't know even at that point, that you needed a head shot to take down a zombie. They police the bodies, stack them up in a room behind them, face forward to guard against more, and BAM, hostile Zombie hoard emerging from behind you.

[Guardsman Bass]

I suspect there was a nasty disease outbreak before the actual zombies coming back too. The hospital that Rick woke up in had large piles of un-zombified corpses stacked outside. Then again, we never hear any of the characters mention that, or even that much at all about the break-down of society (which must have been ugly).

It's a pity because I find the break-down fascinating (which is why I liked the flashback in the latest episode). My favorite chapters in World War Z, for example, were some of the ones dealing with people's responses during the break-down of order.

[Themightytom]

I suspect there was a nasty disease outbreak before the actual zombies coming back too. The hospital that Rick woke up in had large piles of un-zombified corpses stacked outside. Then again, we never hear any of the characters mention that, or even that much at all about the break-down of society (which must have been ugly).

It's a pity because I find the break-down fascinating (which is why I liked the flashback in the latest episode). My favorite chapters in World War Z, for example, were some of the ones dealing with people's responses during the break-down of order.

Personally I like the idea of a world without people. There is so much stuff, lying around for the taking so many places to explore,...
Just you know... pesky hordes of zombies, ruining the buzz.

[FSTargetDrone]

I think that's why the soldiers were mowing down the medical staff along side the patients in Shane's flash back. They couldn't tell who was infected and who wasn't. Unfortunately, they clearly didn't know even at that point, that you needed a head shot to take down a zombie. They police the bodies, stack them up in a room behind them, face forward to guard against more, and BAM, hostile Zombie hoard emerging from behind you.

It appeared the soldiers weren't killing quite everyone in Rick's hospital. Remember when Shane went out in the hallway and asked a passing nurse for help, she was being hustled down the hallway, with several others, by other soldiers. Perhaps any people who were exposed to Walkers (those treating the infected) were shot out of hand, but others were evacuated. Also, some of the soldiers were seen a short time later on that floor and they were withdrawing in apparently an orderly fashion. I think it was right around the time the building was damaged by an explosion (we saw the wall had a hole in it when Rick emerged from the stairway).

If any of you remember in I Am Legend, how there were entire parts of buildings covered in biohazard tarps and in one of the apartments Will Smith's character broke into, there was a body in a bed with a tarp over it and newspaper clippings taped to cabinets, warning people to stay off the streets or some such. All of that suggests a fair amount of time passed before that story's epidemic killed or turned the population. In TWD, it seems like it's happened more quickly.

[Guardsman Bass]

I agree. They don't say how long Rick was unconscious IIRC, but I doubt it was longer than a few weeks (otherwise you'd have to wonder how he stayed alive, unconscious, in an abandoned hospital without regular water or nutrition).

All that said, you'd think that it would get mentioned by one or more of the characters. Is is the same in the comics, for anyone who is reading them?

[Guardsman Bass]

I just watched the most recent episode.

It's another "build-up" episode, for what will be the break-out of the Barn Zombies in the next episode (the mid-season finale before the series goes on hiatus until March 2012). Lots of character interaction, this time focusing heavily on Lori, Glen, Shane, and Andrea - but with some good action in the suburb where Shane and Andrea go looking for signs of Sophia. Andrea and Shane hooked up (not surprising after the battle - both of them looked almost turned on in the excitement).

1. It was nice to see Dale get a few more scenes. He confronts Hershel about the Barn Zombies, and my guess was right: Hershel is being optimistic, treating the zombies like they're just "sick" people, and so forth. His step-son and wife are among them (they're feeding them chickens). He also has a brief tiff with Shane over sex with Andrea, which ends up with Shane intimidating him into shutting up.

2. Shane's a great shot, head-shotting zombies with a pistol from 30-40 feet away. Andrea's . . . not quite there yet, but she's enthusiastic. It's good that they're teaching everybody how to shoot, including Carl.

3. Lori finally had a talk with Rick about her pregnancy, after taking (and throwing up) a bunch of morning-after pills in an attempt at abortion. They went over the whole "why should I bring a child into this dangerous, devastating world?", which ended up with Lori also confessing to Rick about her fling with Shane. Rick says he knew - but he didn't seem to know about the pregnancy, so maybe the CDC Doctor didn't tell him about her pregnancy.

4. Glen is awesome (albeit a terrible liar). Maggy's right too - Glen gets stuck being the "runner" and risk-taker over and over again.

5. Hershel is a reminder that these characters do not have any idea of what zombies are, or any of the pop-culture knowledge about zombies that we know about (and which shapes their setting). He just thinks they're sick, and he's trying to keep them locked up until the authorities presumably arrive.

The long preview for the next episode makes it look like Shane's Group and the Farm Folk are going to have a confrontation. Rick is extremely desperate to avoid going out into the open again, and I think his willingness to oblige Hershel's wishes is starting to wear thin. Not that I think it will matter much once the Barn Zombies break out.

[Meest]

One of the better episodes this season just for some actual thought into the future finally. Though what happened to the search, they sent out one pair down a paved road to a housing area, that's it, that all seemed like a setup for the Andrea and Shane moment. Lori seems almost aware of her irrationality but still acts stupid for the most part, wish more of the female characters showed some leadership or just calm in the face of danger/tension. Didn't like that the feeling is they think they can stay, settled in after what 3-4 days?

Have to agree with Kevin Smith in the Talking Dead show after how he could tell this episode written by a woman, Dale is in the middle of everything, could have maybe used one more character to be a middleman for some plots since he took over for Glenn. Foreshadowing seemed heavy handed and Rick's reaction was weird. Also changes what the doctor could've said to him at the CDC. He acted like he didn't know she was pregnant but knew about Shane, so the CDC guy couldn't have told him it's Shane's or she is pregnant. People are opening up at least.

[Flagg]

Well, now we know what happened to Sophia.

[Deathstalker]

It was fuckin' rough!

[Deathstalker]

And the Deathstalker would be so tempted to double tap Hershel.

[Stofsk]

Wow. I've often railed against this show, and there was still Stupid Character Moments in this episode like with fucking Dale trying to hide the guns, but that climax. Holy shit, I didn't think they'd have the balls to do it.

[JME2]

Well, now we know what happened to Sophia.

Yeah, it explains why they couldn't find her along their search routes.

[Stofsk]

We don't know when she was put in the barn. She could have been put in there days ago, or it could have been much later.

Basically we really don't know the circumstances surrounding Sophia's death and reanimation. There could have been a window there where if the crew had got their shit together, they might have found her safe and sound in time.

I bet Carl getting shot was a big part of it- that hugely affected the search and likely doomed Sophia to her fate. I bet she was still alive even a few days ago and only got bitten recently. (Maybe another thing was Darryl getting injured - had that not happened, he may have tracked her down in time) Of course, Herschel could probably tell them when she was put in the barn - that's if he's in a talkative mood after what happened.

On the other hand, maybe Rick shouldn't have left her alone to begin with. Considering how he dispatched those two walkers in the season two première, he could have told Sophia to look the other way or close her eyes or something. In any case this is a pretty big departure from the comic book, and I like it. And I noticed that Shane the He-Man didn't even aim his gun at Sophia and it was Rick who pulled the trigger. It was pretty interesting how casually brutal Shane is to the walkers while sticking it to Herschel when he doesn't know the faces on the zombies, but when it's a face he knows he freezes up. Meanwhile Rick is more compassionate but he's also the one who, when the chips are down, makes the tough decisions. Shane is basically selfish but disguises it as some kind of enlightened pragmatism.

Also what the christ is Dale's problem? I'm trying to work out what the hell is up with the Stupid Character is Stupid Moment with him trying to hide the guns.

[JME2]

Basically we really don't know the circumstances surrounding Sophia's death and reanimation. There could have been a window there where if the crew had got their shit together, they might have found her safe and sound in time.

I bet Carl getting shot was a big part of it- that hugely affected the search and likely doomed Sophia to her fate. I bet she was still alive even a few days ago and only got bitten recently. (Maybe another thing was Darryl getting injured - had that not happened, he may have tracked her down in time) Of course, Herschel could probably tell them when she was put in the barn - that's if he's in a talkative mood after what happened.[/quote]

Yeah, Herschel's testimony would help establish when she was bitten. But I think you're right; the shooting of Carl and Darryl's injury affected the search and probably doomed her.

[FSTargetDrone]

Shane may have inadvertently prevented the group from learning about what happened to her sooner than they did. Hershel said that Otis was the one who caught the walkers and brought them to the barn, suggesting none have been trapped since his death. Otis may have found her in the woods or near the farm soon after Rick loses sight of her. It's easy to see how she could have been infected at any point after she disappeared. If it was indeed Otis who put Sophia in there, it was before the group ever got to the farm. Now, why did Hershel not say there was a young girl in the barn when he knows Rick's group is looking for a young girl? Perhaps to spare her mother. But that also means Hershel is indirectly risking those members of Rick's group who are going out looking for Sophia.

And what the hell is with Shane. He's basically told Lori that Rick isn't man enough to do what needs to be done and that he (Shane) is better suited to protect her. If that doesn't set alarm bells off in her head, she's not paying attention.

I don't care how good of a shot Shane is, he was utterly reckless to fire near the crowd like that. Shane needs to go away...

Anyway, excellent episode. I thought for sure there would have been a "NO!!!" from Darryl when he saw the girl come out of the barn. He has been looking for her more than anyone else. He was convinced he'd find her. He was almost desperate to find her, in his way.

(Edited for clarity)

[Block]

According to the "talking dead" show after, Otis found her in the woods with a bite in her neck before he was killed and was the one who put her in the barn. So it was before Carl was shot, but he may not have told Hershel, so the secret died with him because of Shane's weird bloodthirst.

[Stofsk]

Huh. Well, Herschel could still note that Sophia wasn't one of the ones he brought in, which would mean it would have been Otis. So they'll figure it out.

If they're still talking afterwards. I'm sure there will be questions asked like 'how long has she been in there' and 'when did you put her in there'.

In any case, that's a big kick in the guts.

Incidentally the ending was spoiled for me so I'm a little miffed but whatever. It was still pretty powerful.

[Meest]

Really need to stop watching Talking Dead, Kirkman couldn't even come up with the timeline, really starting to annoy me how he does not know details like that about his own IP. This is the second time he's basically aloof and says stuff happened because that's what I wanted to happen, just lazy aloof writing. It's not like it's some "nerdy" bit of information because Sophia had one day maybe to be turned and brought to the farm (did Otis and Shane leave the next night?), and adds questions like why she wasn't outright eaten and who was eating in that house etc.

Didn't like the direction or acting especially at the start, that lame no nod from Maggie and yes nod from Dale was really bad. Rick doesn't bring up Shane/Lori situation (could be a good thing since that's more soap drama) and pulled out Lori pregnancy card everyone conversation. The reveal was a bit obvious and didn't feel that bad or sad because she needed a bit more development and needed more shots of the group once she came out (killing a kid isn't too shocking here since Rick has already done it), needed to really show Shane being shocked or too chicken to finish her and makes Rick's leadership kill moment more powerful. Favourite character is still Daryl and think the rest should be more completely written like him. Clear headed for the most part but still gets emotional without being overboard.