marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

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marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-12-03 08:12pm

Who? :D

Ok I know who Shang Chi is because I was a hardcore marvel Zombie back in the day, although I never read his comics. Its certainly interesting and people are going to comment that they are trying to get more diversity into their films.

http://screencrush.com/shang-chi-master ... vel-movie/
We still have no idea what Marvel’s Phase 4 will look like in the aftermath of Avengers 4. Beyond Spider-Man: Far From Home, there’s almost no upcoming Marvel movies that have been officially confirmed by the studio; we don’t even know the status of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 without fired writer/director James Gunn. But Marvel is not going to stop making stuff after Avengers, so expect a flurry of announcements as we get closer and closer to the film’s May release.

This news isn’t officially confirmed, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Deadline reports that one of Marvel’s upcoming movies is Shang-Chi, inspired by the comic-book company’s most famous martial artist. He would become the studio’s first Asian superhero to headline his own film:
The studio has set Chinese-American scribe Dave Callaham to write the screenplay, and Deadline hears Marvel is already looking at a number of Asian and Asian-American directors who want to do something as potentially monumental as was accomplished in Marvel’s first viable Best Picture candidate, Black Panther. That film tied into African and African American cultures and the sensibilities of its nearly all-black cast, with a black director in Ryan Coogler and writer in Joe Robert Cole. The goal here is to do a similar thing: introduce a new hero who blends Asian and Asian American themes, crafted by Asian and Asian American filmmakers.
If that is the goal, then Shang-Chi is a solid character to build around. He was created in the early 1970s, essentially as Marvel’s answer to Bruce Lee. Though he has had sporadic solo series since then, he’s best remember for the Master of Kung Fu book from that period, which was famously and dynamically drawn by artist Paul Gulacy.

Shang-Chi bounced around the Marvel Universe through the years — he once worked with Luke Cage and Iron Fist on their team, Heroes For Hire, and he even taught Spider-Man how to use martial arts with his spider-powers a couple years ago — and should be easily adaptable for movies (although I have a hunch his arch enemy, Fu Manchu, will not be joining him). A Marvel martial arts flick? That sounds like a slam dunk.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Gandalf » 2018-12-03 08:27pm

Here's hoping that it works out like Black Panther.

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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-03 08:33pm

Good.

As underrepresented as black people are in Hollywood, Asians are even moreso.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-12-03 11:23pm

There's still the fact that Fu Manchu himself was a massive Asian Stereotype and was very racist, even for the time period. If they can work around that, then this should be good.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-12-03 11:55pm

Yeah, Shang Chi's father is Fu Manchu. So that character must have fallen into the public domain. Its quite telling that in the 1940s, that totally politically correct time this happened.
Following the 1940 release of Republic Pictures' serial adaptation of Drums of Fu Manchu, the United States Department of State requested the studio make no further films with the character as China was an ally against Japan during World War II. Likewise, Rohmer's publisher, Doubleday, refused to publish further additions to the best-selling series for the duration of World War II once the United States entered the conflict. BBC Radio and Broadway investors subsequently rejected Rohmer's proposals for an original Fu Manchu radio serial and stage show during the 1940s.
I mean with a faux Chinese name. :lol: Seriously Manchu is the name of a Chinese ethnic group, although I am not sure how that would be pronounced in the Manchu language, Manchu is just how its pronounced in English. In Mandarin it would just be "Man" or "Man Zu", the Zu indicating the term refers to an ethnic group. And the A in Man, drops to a U sound, so it would sound like "Mun."

Marvel should definitely drop the name Fu Manchu.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-12-04 01:36pm

General rule of thumb (in the US at least, no comment on other countries' copyright laws): characters become public domain roughly 70 years after their creator's death, unless someone picks up the copyright. Sax Rohmer died in 1959, so it hasn't quite been that long (a little less than 60 years). Thus the rights to Fu Manchu belong either to Rohmer's estate or to whomever last purchased them. Considering that the last Fu Manchu movie was made in 1980 (The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu, starring Peter Sellers as both protagonist and antagonist), it's quite possible that Marvel legally can't use the character anyway.

This article from 2014 would seem to confirm that Marvel doesn't have the rights to Fu Manchu anyway; when they rebooted Master of Kung Fu under a new title around then, they claimed "Fu Manchu" was a pseudonym, and that his real name was "Zheng Zhu", an ancient sorcerer who found the secret to immortality. Typical comic-book crap, in other words.

So if they mention Fu Manchu, expect it to be an one-line throwaway comment, if they say anything about him at all.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-12-05 06:36pm

I nearly forgot about "The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu"! That was a great comedy, ala the "Pink Panther". It may be called a 'cinema failure' but I loved it! Pity it was Seller's last film. :(

Now, I do know that Fu Manchu was in the comic "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", as the head of the Chinatown. He and Moriarty were at war, and the Gentlemen stopped it (and killed Fu Manchu?).
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by NeoGoomba » 2018-12-06 08:30am

mr friendly guy wrote:
2018-12-03 11:55pm
Marvel should definitely drop the name Fu Manchu.
The MCU seems at least somewhat cognizant of stereotypes. They really went out of their way to avoid the "Yellow Peril" Mandarin yet still make the character very interesting (I guess I'm in the minority who actually enjoyed Iron Man 3).
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Bedlam » 2018-12-06 01:29pm

LadyTevar wrote:
2018-12-05 06:36pm
I nearly forgot about "The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu"! That was a great comedy, ala the "Pink Panther". It may be called a 'cinema failure' but I loved it! Pity it was Seller's last film. :(

Now, I do know that Fu Manchu was in the comic "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", as the head of the Chinatown. He and Moriarty were at war, and the Gentlemen stopped it (and killed Fu Manchu?).
I don't think Moriarty's enemy is ever actually named in the comics (presumably for just this copyright reason), but yes he is very obviously Fu Manchu.

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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-12-06 01:47pm

Honestly, while I love Shang Chi, I think Agents of Atlas would have worked better.

But...I can very easily see them combining the two IPs to make something more potent. Besides, they already introduced James Wu as an FBI Agent in Ant-Man & the Wasp.

Though if they used The Mandarin instead of Fuy Manchu...
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-06 02:14pm

NeoGoomba wrote:
2018-12-06 08:30am
mr friendly guy wrote:
2018-12-03 11:55pm
Marvel should definitely drop the name Fu Manchu.
The MCU seems at least somewhat cognizant of stereotypes. They really went out of their way to avoid the "Yellow Peril" Mandarin yet still make the character very interesting (I guess I'm in the minority who actually enjoyed Iron Man 3).
Yeah, I liked Iron Man 3 too.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Ralin » 2018-12-06 02:30pm

I've read the first couple Fu Manchu books. They are badly written and incredibly, almost cartoonishly racist. That said, there's a weird appeal to the character of Fu Manchu himself. Part of that is because it's really obvious that he is smarter, braver, tougher and more honorable than his adversaries. Part of that is the sheer irony of being constantly told that he is evil because he wants to conquer the world for China, by representatives of the British Empire. The author himself had this weirdly schizophrenic feel to his racism both in the books and in real life, because he believed all sorts of fucked up stuff about Chinese people (there's this one scene I remember where the protagonist's narrator/sidekick reads a newspaper article about how a Chinatown gang in Honolulu was arrested for selling scorpions to Chinese parents who wanted to discretely kill unwanted children and sighs and reflects that perhaps it was inevitable that such a people would produce a Fu Manchu), but also admired them for their supposed brutal pragmaticism and shit. Overall the stories have this distinct undertone that the Chinese are evil but also should be respected as adversaries, as opposed to genuinely vile races like the Jews.

It’s very easy to see how the character could be reinterpreted as some sort of anti-colonial or anti-imperialist protagonist or something along those lines.
mr friendly guy wrote:
2018-12-03 11:55pm
I mean with a faux Chinese name. :lol: Seriously Manchu is the name of a Chinese ethnic group, although I am not sure how that would be pronounced in the Manchu language, Manchu is just how its pronounced in English. In Mandarin it would just be "Man" or "Man Zu", the Zu indicating the term refers to an ethnic group. And the A in Man, drops to a U sound, so it would sound like "Mun."
‘Conquering Manchu’ isn’t such a terrible villain name, and the way it’s rendered in English doesn’t seem significantly worse than the English names used by any number of other Chinese fictional characters or real-life figures.

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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-12-07 10:00pm

Ralin wrote:
2018-12-06 02:30pm
mr friendly guy wrote:
2018-12-03 11:55pm
I mean with a faux Chinese name. :lol: Seriously Manchu is the name of a Chinese ethnic group, although I am not sure how that would be pronounced in the Manchu language, Manchu is just how its pronounced in English. In Mandarin it would just be "Man" or "Man Zu", the Zu indicating the term refers to an ethnic group. And the A in Man, drops to a U sound, so it would sound like "Mun."
‘Conquering Manchu’ isn’t such a terrible villain name, and the way it’s rendered in English doesn’t seem significantly worse than the English names used by any number of other Chinese fictional characters or real-life figures.
Fing Fang Foom? The Chinese Dragon from Dr. Strange's rogue gallery?
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-12-08 01:04pm

LadyTevar wrote:
2018-12-07 10:00pm
Ralin wrote:
2018-12-06 02:30pm
mr friendly guy wrote:
2018-12-03 11:55pm
I mean with a faux Chinese name. :lol: Seriously Manchu is the name of a Chinese ethnic group, although I am not sure how that would be pronounced in the Manchu language, Manchu is just how its pronounced in English. In Mandarin it would just be "Man" or "Man Zu", the Zu indicating the term refers to an ethnic group. And the A in Man, drops to a U sound, so it would sound like "Mun."
‘Conquering Manchu’ isn’t such a terrible villain name, and the way it’s rendered in English doesn’t seem significantly worse than the English names used by any number of other Chinese fictional characters or real-life figures.
Fing Fang Foom? The Chinese Dragon from Dr. Strange's rogue gallery?
Yeah, there's a reason they haven't pulled that guy out much since the 90s... weirdness of a giant green dragon aside. Though apparently he was part of the Monsters Unleashed miniseries in 2017, so.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-12-09 09:55pm

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society ... ero-origin
Marvel ‘insults China’ by making its first Asian superhero film about Shang-Chi, a son of Fu Manchu
First Asian superhero planned for the big screen is son of notorious fictional villain
Fu Manchu is regarded as an offensive symbol of anti-Chinese discrimination

An angry Chinese public is accusing Marvel Studios of insulting China after learning that its first Asian superhero on the big screen will be the son of Fu Manchu, the offensive fictional character who has become a shorthand for racial stereotyping.

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Chinese-American screenwriter Dave Callaham, whose movie credits include the upcoming sequels Wonder Woman 1984 and Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse 2, is working on a script for a film showcasing Shang-Chi, who first appeared in Marvel’s comics in the 1970s.

According to The Hollywood Reporter, Marvel is expecting Shang-Chi, also known as the heroic Master of Kung Fu in the Marvel universe, to “break out in a way similar to Black Panther earlier this year”.

Hollywood, the online publication said, was coming to realise the importance of Asian identity following this summer’s box office hit Crazy Rich Asians.

However, when translated reports of the news reached Weibo, China’s Twitter-like service, the online community was unimpressed.

“You used Fu Manchu to insult China back in the day, now you are using Fu’s son to earn Chinese people’s money, how smart,” one internet user wrote.

Fu is a fictional villain who first appeared in a series of novels by British author Sax Rohmer during the early 20th century.

The character sparked accusations of Western racism and orientalism, with protesting Asian-Americans describing the depiction as offensive, in its reliance on “yellow peril” and Asia-centric xenophobia.

Another commenter on Weibo wrote: “It’s common in American comics that a superhero is the son or daughter of an evil villain, but the problem is Fu Manchu has already become a symbol of discrimination against the Chinese.

“There are many other Asian characters they could choose from but they had to choose this, it’s no wonder they are being criticised.”


Some people expressed understanding, saying, “in many movies, even the American president can be the villain, why can’t we tolerate a bad Chinese?”

Ironically, Marvel originally tried to acquire the rights to Kung Fu, the popular 1970s martial arts television drama. When it failed in its bid, it instead bought the rights to Fu Manchu, as part of its ambition to create a superhero based on martial arts legend Bruce Lee.

Lee missed out on the leading role in Kung Fu in favour of a non-Chinese actor named David Carradine.
Time to further distance this characters origin from Fu Manchu.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Gandalf » 2018-12-09 10:12pm

I can't imagine that Marvel didn't see this sort of reaction coming. Time for an announcement, like when The Ancient One became Celtic living in Nepal as opposed to Tibetan in Tibet.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-09 10:21pm

Gandalf wrote:
2018-12-09 10:12pm
I can't imagine that Marvel didn't see this sort of reaction coming. Time for an announcement, like when The Ancient One became Celtic living in Nepal as opposed to Tibetan in Tibet.
Yes, they should have seen controversy coming. Whatever they do, they're going to get hammered. Keep Fu Manchu- get accused of racism and probably lose the Chinese market. Get rid of him- have another orchestrated campaign against the film by the Alt. Reich because "SJWs shoving PC agenda down our throats!" (obviously I do not regard this as in any way equally valid complaints, and I'd much rather they tell the Alt. Reich to go suck a dick).

This isn't really analogous to the situation with the Ancient One, though. In this case, there's a good reason not to use Fu Manchu. In the case of the Ancient One, Marvel was actually engaging in racism by whitewashing an Asian character, in order to appease the censors of a dictatorship.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-12-09 10:41pm

Other sources state Shang Chi's dad is going to be a globalist. Not sure how accurate that is. When Marvel lost the rights to the Fu Manchu name, they renamed the character Zheng Zu.

I have a suggestion, since they ought to play up Shang Chi's mysticism. I mean in the comics he gained the ability to multiply himself and overpower foes by sheer weight of numbers. When he first came out, it was played like a spy thriller. So we could sort of meld the genres.

Have Zheng Zu being a Ra Al Ghul figure obsessed with immortality since he has lived for soooo long and is dying. His criminal organisation is now predominantly focussed on finding mystic artefacts which will prolong his life. Gives a glimpse of some crossover with Iron Fist and Doctor Strange since they overlap in the mystic department. We know Zheng Zu is really bad, because he doesn't care how many people he kills to runs roughshod over to find these artefacts.

Eventually he acquires an artefact which will allow him to leave this world for another dimension where he believes the energies will rejuvenate him. The artefact is a key and the door is somewhere in the world (doesn't even have to be China).

Only the legend isn't all its cracked up to be. You see, the door is really a gate designed to keep things out. What will come out from the other side are Lovecraftian theme monsters. :D Ok this theme has been used a lot in B5, Lovecraft, the Real Ghostbusters etc. Marvel even did this with the Many Angled Ones in the Cancerverse, an alternate dimension where Captain Marvel (the Kree captain, not Carol Danvers) killed Death (hows that for irony), thus granting everyone immortality in the Cancerverse.

So Shang Chi has to defeat his father, who has been empowered by the artefact. Shang Chi only wins by developing his duplication powers. However we get a glimpse of the Lovecraftian monsters, who are the many angled ones and then we can set up some more cosmic adventures later on since the Cancerverse was quite the threat to the Marvel universe back in the day. Before they destroyed it. :wink:
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-12-11 05:36pm

Gandalf wrote:
2018-12-09 10:12pm
I can't imagine that Marvel didn't see this sort of reaction coming. Time for an announcement, like when The Ancient One became Celtic living in Nepal as opposed to Tibetan in Tibet.
Yeah, that rang of fearing the Chinese market because of China's conquest of Tibet.
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Re: marvel to make a Shang Chi movie

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-12-11 05:44pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2018-12-09 10:41pm
Only the legend isn't all its cracked up to be. You see, the door is really a gate designed to keep things out. What will come out from the other side are Lovecraftian theme monsters. :D Ok this theme has been used a lot in B5, Lovecraft, the Real Ghostbusters etc. Marvel even did this with the Many Angled Ones in the Cancerverse, an alternate dimension where Captain Marvel (the Kree captain, not Carol Danvers) killed Death (hows that for irony), thus granting everyone immortality in the Cancerverse.

So Shang Chi has to defeat his father, who has been empowered by the artefact. Shang Chi only wins by developing his duplication powers. However we get a glimpse of the Lovecraftian monsters, who are the many angled ones and then we can set up some more cosmic adventures later on since the Cancerverse was quite the threat to the Marvel universe back in the day. Before they destroyed it. :wink:
Er... the Cancerverse wasn't that big of a deal. It only appeared, IIRC, in a Cosmic event post-Annihilation. It mostly served as a good way to usher Thanos off the stage for awhile (not that *that* lasted) and tie off the aftermath of Annihilation in a neat knot.

That said, I see no reason they couldn't take the 'cosmic monsters from another dimension' approach. It's unconventional, but why not.
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