Game of Thrones Season 6 [Discussion of most-recently aired episodes]

[FaxModem1]

So, here's a possible theory on why the Spider was there on the ships in the last scene:

Link

I'm wondering if there aren't multiple trips, as Dany has a rather large force.

Just how many troops could each ship reasonably carry across the sea? How many ships would she require?

[Lord Revan]

So, here's a possible theory on why the Spider was there on the ships in the last scene:

Link

I'm wondering if there aren't multiple trips, as Dany has a rather large force.

Just how many troops could each ship reasonably carry across the sea? How many ships would she require?

I how many troops she could ferry across the sea would depend on how many ships she has avaible and more importantly how much food she has avaible.

[Gaidin]

Best comment so far on what's coming:

Her Unsullied Army and Dothraki Horde are both warm weather forces; but winter has come to Westeros. Daenerys has it all.................except for a winter capable army.

The Unsullied are really the only disciplined forces she has capable of really truly fighting. And there's not that many of them.

MOSCOW 1941-1942 / STALINGRAD 1942-43 AGAIN

Insofar as I can tell she's invading from the south looking at "country borders". Not like Winter is immediate from when they declare the seasonal changes here. She's got time to figure out changes here.

[Simon_Jester]

Are we sure the Dothraki don't know how to handle the cold? Sure, we see them in deserts and they ride around with their shirts off a lot. But they're based on the historic Mongol and Turkic tribes of Central Asia. They live in a large, inland plain that presumably has a continental climate, with extremes of heat and cold in summer and winter.

So it may well be that we're used to seeing Dothraki who are dressed (or undressed) for warm weather, but they do know how to protect themselves from the cold when winter comes.

[Thanas]

Are we sure the Dothraki don't know how to handle the cold? Sure, we see them in deserts and they ride around with their shirts off a lot. But they're based on the historic Mongol and Turkic tribes of Central Asia. They live in a large, inland plain that presumably has a continental climate, with extremes of heat and cold in summer and winter.

So it may well be that we're used to seeing Dothraki who are dressed (or undressed) for warm weather, but they do know how to protect themselves from the cold when winter comes.

If they are based on the mongols they are doing a hilariously bad job of it. I think they are more based on the berber tribes. And based on all that we see they will be hilariously unsuited to battles in Westeros.

So far, of all the forces Dany has, only the dragons, House Tyrell and House Martell strike me as credible threats. The Unsullied would be comically ill-equipped and impossible to use on a westerosi battlefield (unless they retrain and re-equip) and the Dothraki are just unarmored light cavalry, so no great threat either to the Lannister army.

But I fully expect the show to wank them into unbeatable territory.

[Simon_Jester]

A question. Does Essos experience the extremely long and irregular seasons that Westeros does?

It just... it's hard for me to imagine a society that lives in a continental climate, with Westeros-like seasonal lengths, that isn't prepared to cope with a hard winter.

[Alferd Packer]

If they are based on the mongols they are doing a hilariously bad job of it. I think they are more based on the berber tribes. And based on all that we see they will be hilariously unsuited to battles in Westeros.

So far, of all the forces Dany has, only the dragons, House Tyrell and House Martell strike me as credible threats. The Unsullied would be comically ill-equipped and impossible to use on a westerosi battlefield (unless they retrain and re-equip) and the Dothraki are just unarmored light cavalry, so no great threat either to the Lannister army.

But I fully expect the show to wank them into unbeatable territory.

I think sheer size would overwhelm the Lannister armies, who have been depleted by years of warfare. Dorne has been untouched, and while the Reach has suffered losses, it's only been due to one battle, really (the Blackwater). And sure, the Lannisters can raise levies from the Westerlands and the Crownlands, but how well-equipped will those levies be?

Of course, having an enormous army cuts both ways. I wonder how Dany expects to feed her army? I guess the Reach will provide, as well as Dorne (as much as they can, anyway). I think you're right, it'll be wanked away by the show.

Oh, and I just had a deliciously horrible thought: when Bran touched the Night King and that allowed the walkers to get into the Children's sanctuary...well, I wonder if the same thing will apply when he passes through the Wall? Woops.

[Simon_Jester]

The Dothraki and Unsullied may also function well as adjuncts to a Westeros combat force. Westeros, like historical Western European cultures, is relatively strong in heavy cavalry and medium-heavy infantry, and has adequate archers, but is short on skirmishers and light cavalry.

When two similarly equipped and trained armies of heavy troops clash, but one has the support of excellent light cavalry who scout effectively and swarm around the enemy to damage their logistics... the army with light cavalry support usually wins.

Likewise, the Unsullied seem organized enough to acquit themselves adequately against well-equipped Westerosi foot soldiers, and would slam right through a poorly trained or poorly equipped levy.

[Alferd Packer]

The Unsullied would essentially fight like Greek phalanxes, or rather, that's how they're equipped. But that represents an out-of-date method of equipping and fighting. Westerosi foot soldiers would have longer, two-handed pikes and, if commanded by someone other than a buffoon, would most likely deploy in a schiltron (or several). It would be interesting to see how the Unsullied react to entirely new battlefield tactics being used against them.

[fgalkin]

Words cannot describe how stupid Dany is for bringing 100k Dothraki to Westeros. She doesn't need an army to conquer Westeros- Aegon managed it with 1600 men and three dragons. Her Unsullied should be more than enough.

What she needs is an occupying force loyal to her to hold the territory she conquers. And I can think of no other force in that world that is less suited as an occupying army than the "rape, pillage, and enslave" Dothraki horde. Even if she doesn't give them free reign, they are still an army of 100k, plus noncombatants, who are used to living off the land and taking what they need by force. Her only hope to retain any loyalty of her new subjects is that winter comes soon and the Dothraki all freeze to death before they can do much damage.

There is literally no reason to bring them to Westeros, and literally every reason not to.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[NecronLord]

Words cannot describe how stupid Dany is for bringing 100k Dothraki to Westeros. She doesn't need an army to conquer Westeros- Aegon managed it with 1600 men and three dragons. Her Unsullied should be more than enough.

What she needs is an occupying force loyal to her to hold the territory she conquers. And I can think of no other force in that world that is less suited as an occupying army than the "rape, pillage, and enslave" Dothraki horde. Even if she doesn't give them free reign, they are still an army of 100k, plus noncombatants, who are used to living off the land and taking what they need by force. Her only hope to retain any loyalty of her new subjects is that winter comes soon and the Dothraki all freeze to death before they can do much damage.

There is literally no reason to bring them to Westeros, and literally every reason not to.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

The world would be actually improved if she flamed the ships with the Dothraki on.

[NecronLord]

Are we sure the Dothraki don't know how to handle the cold? Sure, we see them in deserts and they ride around with their shirts off a lot. But they're based on the historic Mongol and Turkic tribes of Central Asia. They live in a large, inland plain that presumably has a continental climate, with extremes of heat and cold in summer and winter.

So it may well be that we're used to seeing Dothraki who are dressed (or undressed) for warm weather, but they do know how to protect themselves from the cold when winter comes.

If they are based on the mongols they are doing a hilariously bad job of it. I think they are more based on the berber tribes. And based on all that we see they will be hilariously unsuited to battles in Westeros.

So far, of all the forces Dany has, only the dragons, House Tyrell and House Martell strike me as credible threats. The Unsullied would be comically ill-equipped and impossible to use on a westerosi battlefield (unless they retrain and re-equip) and the Dothraki are just unarmored light cavalry, so no great threat either to the Lannister army.

But I fully expect the show to wank them into unbeatable territory.

In absolute honesty, the prevalence of bronze armour and weapons in Essos suggests to me that Martin, although well read in history doesn't care to consider such things in too much detail; it would be almost comically easy for the Braavosi to skull-fuck Slaver's Bay, and the Volantines as written, and reduce them to dependencies if they ever had even the slightest desire to expand their abolitionist activities.

Planetos seems to have several inexplicably anachronistic cultures.

[fgalkin]

Martin is not particularly well read in anything but historical novels set during the War of the Roses. This is why he managed to create Fantasy England, but the further away one moves from it, the sillier things get.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[FaxModem1]

I get the feeling that the Dothraki, unless they're used as an example of the bad side of Dany conquering Westeros, will be her disposable troops against the White Walkers.

Though, I do wonder if her demonstration of burning all the Khals has led to a bit of Reformation in the Dothraki.

[Ralin]

Though, I do wonder if her demonstration of burning all the Khals has led to a bit of Reformation in the Dothraki.

I'm sure that they view her as a terrifying religious/quasi-religious figure of incredible power now. But, you know that rape culture thing feminists talk about in real life? That doesn't just go away. Everything we've seen of the Dothraki, especially their military culture, says that Dothraki warriors clearly believe that it is their right to rape and pillage their defeated enemies and that doing so is as natural as the sun rising. Telling them not to do so is going to come off as alien, and their tendency is going to be to explain away Dany's orders on the subject no matter how clear she makes them. Or ignore them. Or do pretty much anything other than acting like they've spent their entire lives thinking that Dothraki warriors should.

[Thanas]

I think sheer size would overwhelm the Lannister armies, who have been depleted by years of warfare. Dorne has been untouched, and while the Reach has suffered losses, it's only been due to one battle, really (the Blackwater). And sure, the Lannisters can raise levies from the Westerlands and the Crownlands, but how well-equipped will those levies be?

Years of warfare? Not really. The war against Robb Stark and Stannis is over a year ago. They won, without taking too many losses. Riverrun - again few losses. So what battles did they really engage in where they lost irreplaceable numbers of men?

I mean, the mere fact that House Tyrell does not immediately declare war and that House Martell has not done much either means that the Lannister armies are certainly capable enough of holing them in check while conducting a campaign against Riverrun at the same time.

[fgalkin]

In a realistic world the fact that Lannisters are bankrupt+they have defaulted on the Iron Bank would mean that they are in deep shit when it comes to maintaining an army.

However, this is GOT we are talking about, so nevermind.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[fgalkin]

Also, upon checking the wiki (http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline) it seems that 1 season= 1 year, so it has, in fact, been 6 years since the war began.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[ArmorPierce]

I think sheer size would overwhelm the Lannister armies, who have been depleted by years of warfare. Dorne has been untouched, and while the Reach has suffered losses, it's only been due to one battle, really (the Blackwater). And sure, the Lannisters can raise levies from the Westerlands and the Crownlands, but how well-equipped will those levies be?

Years of warfare? Not really. The war against Robb Stark and Stannis is over a year ago. They won, without taking too many losses. Riverrun - again few losses. So what battles did they really engage in where they lost irreplaceable numbers of men?

I mean, the mere fact that House Tyrell does not immediately declare war and that House Martell has not done much either means that the Lannister armies are certainly capable enough of holing them in check while conducting a campaign against Riverrun at the same time.

The war of 5 kings only just ended this season with blackfish killed, and it can be argued that it's still going on since the Lannister proxy, boltons, have been defeated in the name of the Starks in the north. That's 5 years of ongoing warfare.

The lannisters had half of their army, which started off at 60,000, wiped out in the battle that Jamie Lannister was captured where he was commanding half their army. That battle alone wiped out half their army, and they presumably lost more during the siege of kings landing.

[ArmorPierce]

I think sheer size would overwhelm the Lannister armies, who have been depleted by years of warfare. Dorne has been untouched, and while the Reach has suffered losses, it's only been due to one battle, really (the Blackwater). And sure, the Lannisters can raise levies from the Westerlands and the Crownlands, but how well-equipped will those levies be?

Years of warfare? Not really. The war against Robb Stark and Stannis is over a year ago. They won, without taking too many losses. Riverrun - again few losses. So what battles did they really engage in where they lost irreplaceable numbers of men?

I mean, the mere fact that House Tyrell does not immediately declare war and that House Martell has not done much either means that the Lannister armies are certainly capable enough of holing them in check while conducting a campaign against Riverrun at the same time.

The war of 5 kings only just ended this season with blackfish killed, and it can be argued that it's still going on since the Lannister proxy, boltons, have been defeated in the name of the Starks in the north. That's 5 years of ongoing warfare.

The lannisters had half of their army, which started off at 60,000, wiped out in the battle that Jamie Lannister was captured where he was commanding half their army. That battle alone wiped out half their army, and they presumably lost more during the siege of kings landing.

And why would house Tyrell declare war? They were allied to the lannisters and their daughter was married to the queen. They had already come to the Lannister aid during the battle of kings landing, they presumably would once again if house Martel declared war, which was the weaker house among the bunch in the beginning anyway.

Now they have reason to but the Lannister army is back, which is why they are securing other alliances.

[Elfdart]

Are we sure the Dothraki don't know how to handle the cold? Sure, we see them in deserts and they ride around with their shirts off a lot. But they're based on the historic Mongol and Turkic tribes of Central Asia. They live in a large, inland plain that presumably has a continental climate, with extremes of heat and cold in summer and winter.

So it may well be that we're used to seeing Dothraki who are dressed (or undressed) for warm weather, but they do know how to protect themselves from the cold when winter comes.

If they are based on the mongols they are doing a hilariously bad job of it. I think they are more based on the berber tribes. And based on all that we see they will be hilariously unsuited to battles in Westeros.

So far, of all the forces Dany has, only the dragons, House Tyrell and House Martell strike me as credible threats. The Unsullied would be comically ill-equipped and impossible to use on a westerosi battlefield (unless they retrain and re-equip) and the Dothraki are just unarmored light cavalry, so no great threat either to the Lannister army.

But I fully expect the show to wank them into unbeatable territory.

If they were issued cold weather clothing and torches they'd be perfect for fighting the wights. Look how Benjen was able to wipe out a bunch all by himself. Thousands of trained light horsemen would annihilate the army of the dead.

[Elfdart]

That was a good episode, and I'll give the show this - it continues to make any and all predictions I make wrong.

1. It was a slow build-up to that destruction of Baelor's Sept, but all worth it for that conclusion and the great effects of it. About the only sour note is that they ended it with Gregorstein given orders to repeatedly rape the Septa over and over again. Just an excellent sequence for the show, and while it feels a bit weird to have Cersei's storyline this season end with a coronation and her looking smug on the Throne, I'll take it.

She's probably going to go all Hitler-in-the-bunker. The Lannisters are done. Aside from Jamie, the only male in the family left is the cousin Tywin humiliated during Season 2 for wanting to get some rest. I'm assuming there are no Tyrells left, at least not any of Olenna's offspring. Ditto for the Martels. Bran is all that's left of the Starks. This really is shaping up to be like the Wars of the Roses, where the Plantagenets, Nevilles and Lovells are all wiped out in the male line.

2. Riverrun was also pretty damn satisfying (although I think it will be better in the books, where there's hints that a bigger massacre will take please at Riverrun Red Wedding style and involving Lady Stoneheart). I hope that next season, we find that Arya did more than just kill the Freys (and Walder Frey) - she also set Edmure free. The show also teased that the Blackfish might be alive, with the whole "taken down by common foot soldiers?".

Speaking of male lines being killed off, so long House Frey -and good riddance! I hope Arya has the good sense to free Edmure and the POWs and they in turn have the good sense to hold the Twins, which is supposedly this awesome fortress. The Lannisters by themselves probably couldn't take it back, being busy elsewhere. Failing that, maybe they could go north to help Jon and Sansa.

3. The only thing that left me cold was everything at Winterfell aside from Angry Davos. They're really going to drag out the whole thing with Littlefinger even more, with it still unresolved as to what's going to happen with him? Ugh. Kind of a bummer, too, that Jon is being praised as a conquering hero when his fuck-up nearly got them all killed - I guess that's going to just be one of Those Things we'll have to overlook. He and Sansa got over the whole "sorry I didn't tell you about my potential army" really quickly, too, although the look at the end between her and Littlefinger possibly told otherwise.

I think she trusts Jon. She trusts him to be dumb.

4. Dorne returns! And didn't suck! Although I suspect they brought that back so they could get some more performance out of the wonderful Diana Rigg.

Isn't Sam's father (the Great Santini) one of her vassals? I'm hoping for reconciliation between father and son, leading to the old warlord taking his forces north to kick some undead ass, or thrashing Euron's pirates. Unfortunately, he's been billed as this great military leader, so he'll die stupid like the others.

5. Nice of them to finish off the whole "Tower of Joy" flashback, although it's a little strange to have it at the end of a season. Seems like something that should have come up earlier.

In order to keep everything secret, wouldn't Ned have been forced to kill the two midwives?

6. Fucking finally, Daenerys and her forces are headed west! It's all molding together! And since characters can pretty much teleport in this series, she could be there any time next season.

7. So what is Sam going to discover in Oldtown that was important enough not to change his storyline of going there from the books? Hmm.

Maybe he's going to find out what that horn is used for. Or how to kill the Night King.

Looking at the map shows Old Town right in between Dorne and Pyke. So I'm guessing Euron will pull a fleet of ships right out of his ass and engage Danerys' fleet in battle on the high seas, or use his skeleton powers to summon a storm or sea monster that wipes out part of Danerys' forces, or all of the above -possibly forcing Danerys to land near Old Town. Sam tells her about his discoveries. She agrees to send Sam and some of her men north and he gets to use his Chekhov's Arming Sword on more white walkers.

Seriously, the only things that could derail Danerys would be a killer storm sinking a bunch of her ships, or some kind of giant kraken doing it. The problem is that between Cersei and Euron, any relief to the north against the white walkers will be delayed while Danerys deals with the assholes.

[Terralthra]

And why would house Tyrell declare war? They were allied to the lannisters and their daughter was married to the queen. They had already come to the Lannister aid during the battle of kings landing, they presumably would once again if house Martel declared war, which was the weaker house among the bunch in the beginning anyway.

Now they have reason to but the Lannister army is back, which is why they are securing other alliances.

House Tyrell's daughter, Queen by marriage was just vaporized by Cersei Lannister, the now-Dowager Queen. Their backing of the Lannisters was always predicated on marrying into the line for the throne, much like Lord Frey's support of Robb Stark. With Margaery literally toasted, along with her son, Mace, and grandson, Loras, Lady Grandma Olenna Tyrell would be more than a little fucking pissed. She is implied to have killed King Joffrey because he might mistreat her granddaughter poorly in the future.

[ArmorPierce]

And why would house Tyrell declare war? They were allied to the lannisters and their daughter was married to the queen. They had already come to the Lannister aid during the battle of kings landing, they presumably would once again if house Martel declared war, which was the weaker house among the bunch in the beginning anyway.

Now they have reason to but the Lannister army is back, which is why they are securing other alliances.

House Tyrell's daughter, Queen by marriage was just vaporized by Cersei Lannister, the now-Dowager Queen. Their backing of the Lannisters was always predicated on marrying into the line for the throne, much like Lord Frey's support of Robb Stark. With Margaery literally toasted, along with her son, Mace, and grandson, Loras, Lady Grandma Olenna Tyrell would be more than a little fucking pissed. She is implied to have killed King Joffrey because he might mistreat her granddaughter poorly in the future.

The question was posed why the Tyrells did not attack prior to this occurring, not post explosion at the temple caused by Cersie.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Re: the discussions about the strength of the Lannister army ...

In episode 7 of this season, when Jaime first arrives at Riverrun and meets the Freys, he says, "You just allowed 8,000 men to approach unchallenged." Which means the army the Lannisters were able to field was not much more than what the Boltons were able to put together, which doesn't seem to say a whole lot for their ability to resist Dany's army.

Granted, this is only a lower limit. It seems reasonable to assume the Lannisters had some sort of force in place to defend against Dorne (though we haven't been given any information on what exactly is going on with that front, to be honest - we don't even know whether they are actively fighting or whether it was cold up until this last episode), plus some number of forces remaining in King's Landing. However, that said, since the target of that expedition was Riverrun, which is an infamous fortress being held by a respected Lord, it also seems reasonable to assume that they threw almost everything they had available at it, so I doubt you could say with confidence that this 8,000 represented less than, say, half of their total forces. But, really, we don't have enough information, at least going by the show. Not sure if the books are more explicit on Lannister strength in this time period?