Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)

[streetad]

Kitt Harrington is doing interviews confirming he is done with the show.

If Jon is really dead then this story could be the greatest example of extended trolling in history.

I mean can you imagine the scenes if WoW comes out and all the endless speculation about Jon's parentage and Azor Azhai etc was irrelevant because he's perma-dead?

[Crown]

Kitt Harrington is doing interviews confirming he is done with the show.

If Jon is really dead then this story could be the greatest example of extended trolling in history.

I mean can you imagine the scenes if WoW comes out and all the endless speculation about Jon's parentage and Azor Azhai etc was irrelevant because he's perma-dead?

What is dead may never die ...

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kitt Harrington is doing interviews confirming he is done with the show.

I hope he's trolling. Not so much because I'm pissed he was killed off, but more because I've always hated how in the modern TV era it is so easy to get spoilers about the future of the show from actors/directors/whoever in interviews between seasons. So I just think it would be a great subversion of that trend to plant false information like that.

[Pelranius]

Well, it'd be pretty hard in the age of smartphones and social media to hide the fact that Kit Harrington would be on set this summer, if Jon Snow gets resurrected, unless they made him live in a trailer 24/7 when he isn't shooting scenes, and make sure nobody on the cast or crew blabs.

[Vympel]

Overall, I liked it. There's a lot of hate out there re: Stannis' apparent death & the Bolton victory, but I think its primarily a matter of "this writing is not what I wanted to happen even though its entirely internally consistent with itself!" as opposed to "this writing sucks"*. Melisandre's look of devastation on her return to Castle Black was probably the only time in the entire show she has looked anything less than 100% confident, and it was effective. Liam Cunningham sold it as well. And obviously Stephen Dillane elevates the material to such a degree that the scene of his march and death was actually really fucking well done, IMO. I loved watching him gank those two Bolton soldiers. No mooks are going to kill him.

*To a point. I've spokent about how I find the predicament Stannis was placed in too contrived and Ramsay's involvement on-the-nose already, I'm talking about the events of this episode in the context of the last.

Scene by scene, I couldn't think of anything I hated. Theon pitching Myranda off the walls was fucking hilarious and an applause moment. Cersei's walk was extremely well done (including the leadup to it). Her Big Huge Septa still scares the piss out of me.

FrankenGregor looked creepy as shit. Don't know if its really necessary to show his eyes though.

Arya killing Meryn was disturbing as fuck. Dude died a horrible death. Good.

And "For the Watch" - everyone's worst fears (Olly will do it alone, it'll suck balls, no For the Watch) was replaced with a shitload of Night's Watch men stabbing him, and only ending with Olly. Good.

Myrcella's death? Don't know what to think. What's Trystane going to do? Do we care? Probably not. Meh - Dorne. A distraction in the books, a distraction in the show.

[Mr Bean]

Just about to watch Episode 10 but I'll quote something I saw elsewhere.

What's the difference between the books and the Show? Hope
And I agree with that Reddit poster, everything to date, every ray of sunshine in the books is now fully missing from the show thanks to the changes made.

Here's the post spoiled Spoiler

So after watching the end of "mothers mercy" I feel.....depressed.

This show, at this point, is just about the bad guys winning again and again and again with no real hope of vengeance.

LSH? The literal resurrection of stark justice and revenge? Gone.

Northern lords in winterfell that are clearly pro stark? Don't need them.

Frey pie? How about Sansa rape instead?

The quest for rickon stark? Why not just be sad at castle black.

D & D are heartless. I've always been annoyed at them getting criticized but I really feel like they only care about taking shit away from people. "Game of shocking bad guys win" is not a song of ice and fire.

[Mr Bean]

Just finished the episode between work.p
As stupid as I feared
Noooooo hooooopppeeeee
No hope for anyone except the Bolton's where everything is now 100% great.

[TheFeniX]

Crazy Bitch is crazy (and now dead): "We don't need all your pieces, so let's shoot you with this bow, even though there are exactly 0 places I could shoot you with said bow that don't risk death due to blood loss and/or infection." I just love how the only way Ramsey knows how to control a 120lbs girl is through violence. It doesn't mesh with how fucking super-awesome he is at everything else. He could, I don't know, pretend he gives a shit and treat her with some sense of decency if only so she doesn't kill herself or accidentally kill herself while trying to escape. Not that I care to watch more Theon-esque torture porn, but just chain her to the fucking wall in her room. I'm so glad this combination physical/psychological shit is over because it feels like Ramsey wants to do everything to Sansa except get her pregnant.

Half of Stannis' men desert as soon as the weather breaks. The flame God is a monkey's paw: giving Stannis the break in the weather he needed to march ahead AND give his men the chance to flee. Needed to fucking happen. I honestly wasn't expecting it. Figured he'd get the battle he wanted and just lose outright. Although, Stannis somehow escaping into the woods on foot from cavalry all so Brianne can stop being the most useless character (that I still enjoy watching) for 5 minutes. Still, how fucking cliche is it to be surprised by cavalry on a flat open field?

"Hey, I totally just tried to kill this chick and me and my brood are known for poisoning motherfuckers. Nothing weird about making out with her before she leaves because no one in Dorne has two brain-cells to rub together. Thank God the guards let known assassins carry around vials of anti-venom (or whatever), because that shit is normal here." What they fuck happens if the love-birds decide to make out on the ship, as they do all the fucking time?

Do the rest of the Crows just not believe in white-walkers? Not all of them have actually seen them, so I assume they either don't or will be fleeing Castle Black in droves after the Lord Commander has been murdered. Honestly, with everything that has been going on, there should only be like 20 Crows left anyways.

[TheHammer]

I see a lot of complaining, but the key question is, is anyone here not going to watch Season 6?

[Pelranius]

Davos, his 80 knights (I think it was 80?), not to mention Wun Wun and the Wildings are probably going to make the Nights Watch extinct, rendering Jon's oath moot, death or no death.

[Agent Fisher]

Nights Watch, you were mutinous scum at Craster's Keep, you are still mutinous scum. I hope you enjoy the White Walkers rolling south over you. Though with your current track record, I'm betting you all abandoned the wall and flee south. I mean, the last two Lord Commanders stabbed by mutineers? Surprised anyone even lasts when doing the job.

[TheHammer]

Davos, his 80 knights (I think it was 80?), not to mention Wun Wun and the Wildings are probably going to make the Nights Watch extinct, rendering Jon's oath moot, death or no death.

Depends on if they openly proclaim being the ones who did it, or simply leave it as an "unsolved murder of the Lord Commander". Jon still had a number of Nights watch supporters who also might seek revenge - not everyone was there to seek his death.

[Pelranius]

Davos, his 80 knights (I think it was 80?), not to mention Wun Wun and the Wildings are probably going to make the Nights Watch extinct, rendering Jon's oath moot, death or no death.

Depends on if they openly proclaim being the ones who did it, or simply leave it as an "unsolved murder of the Lord Commander". Jon still had a number of Nights watch supporters who also might seek revenge - not everyone was there to seek his death.

Davos and the Wildings strike me as rather suspicious people, and one of the "FTW" crowd is probably going to blab something sooner or later.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Olly's actions make perfect sense. Kid of maybe 12 watches a bunch of wildlings murder everyone he has ever known and one of the wildlings (I doubt he sees the Thenns as any different from the other groups of wildlings) gleefully states he's gonna eat the kid's parents. Then the Lord Commander goes and brings a bunch of them to Castle Black... Yeah, Jon's actions were based on long-term survival and likely were better than just giving the White Walkers an entire goddamn army to throw against humanity. But a lot of people didn't see it that way. Short-sighted of them? Sure. But their reaction makes complete sense. Jon wasn't exactly the most liked Lord Commander they've had. The behavior displayed on all accounts remained completely in character.

Ramsey's behavior toward Sansa... You need to keep in mind, this guy is a low-functioning sociopath. The show may have turned him into a brilliant tactician and combatant, but his social skills are non-existent. He has no sense of empathy. His behavior, once again, makes sense based off how he's behaved the entire time. His little girlfriend is also a low-functioning sociopath. Apparently Roose is really damn good at gathering a bunch of remorseless idiots.


I will agree that things get pretty goddamn GrimDark in this show, even comapred with the books.

[Simon_Jester]

Given that, canonically, the Night's Watch has been recruiting from convicted criminals all over Westeros, and that this is the main source of their recruits... Should we be surprised by this?

The wonder is that they hold together as large a fraction of the time as they actually do.

[Pelranius]

Given that, canonically, the Night's Watch has been recruiting from convicted criminals all over Westeros, and that this is the main source of their recruits... Should we be surprised by this?

The wonder is that they hold together as large a fraction of the time as they actually do.

You'd think they have some more survival instincts though. It'd be smarter of them to arrange an accident for Jon, say like falling out of the elevator or Wall, as opposed to stabbing him.

One of the Brothers who isn't in on "FTW" is likely to say something was amiss, and it's not like Davos and Melisandre will just nod politely in the morning when they find Jon's body, shrug, and ride off to whereever Gendry, the Tullys, Freys and the Greyjoys went.

[TheFeniX]

Ramsey's behavior toward Sansa... You need to keep in mind, this guy is a low-functioning sociopath. The show may have turned him into a brilliant tactician and combatant, but his social skills are non-existent. He has no sense of empathy. His behavior, once again, makes sense based off how he's behaved the entire time. His little girlfriend is also a low-functioning sociopath. Apparently Roose is really damn good at gathering a bunch of remorseless idiots.

The show paints him as extremely high-functioning. Like wizard level. But Roose has way too much invested in his plans to not step in and tell Ramsey to quit fucking it up. He stabbed the King in the North through the heart because the Lannisters had his back. The Lannisters are cratering. By his own admission, they have a lot invested in Sansa: kids now, lots of them.

Instead he just makes a few comments that Ramsey immediately ignores. I can buy that Ramsey will torture anything he gets his hands on. I just can't buy that Bolton would play this loose with his best shot to get legitimacy for his claim as Warden of the North. As part of this, why would he let Ramsey leave the keep to do his anti-Stannis magic camp burning? If Ramsey gets offed for any reason, he's only got one bun in the oven and no Stark heirs.

Jesus, the Starks left 2 heirs at Winterfell for safekeeping and look how that turned out. Westeros is a bad place to be heir to anything really.

Given that, canonically, the Night's Watch has been recruiting from convicted criminals all over Westeros, and that this is the main source of their recruits... Should we be surprised by this?

The wonder is that they hold together as large a fraction of the time as they actually do.

I think it had a lot to do with the Black sucking shit, but actually being a pretty safe job aside from Ranging North of the wall, which they didn't just let any asshole do. But now, what good is sentencing someone to death for desertion when the odds are, if you stay, you'll die a death a lot more horrible than just a beheading? Further, I doubt the Boltons even give a fuck about deserting Crows and it's the perfect time to just disappear. It's not like a random peasent rapist or murderer from King's Landing is easy to spot. Only recognizable people like Thorne are truly fucked.

[TheHammer]

Given that, canonically, the Night's Watch has been recruiting from convicted criminals all over Westeros, and that this is the main source of their recruits... Should we be surprised by this?

The wonder is that they hold together as large a fraction of the time as they actually do.

Well they do elect their leaders rather than have them simply assigned, which would help with mutinies. But then, the last two LC's met their end at the hands of their own men.

[streetad]

Well, I guess next season we'll see who has the stronger plot armour - Baelish or Bolton. My money is on Littlefinger, if only because he's a more interesting villain.

I'm not sure what the NW conspirators were thinking letting Jon and the wildlings through the wall in the first place. Tormund and his remaining raiders outnumber the nights watch by close to 100-1; assuming that a bunch of them are the elderly, women and children, they should still be able to handle what is left of the watch if they try anything.

[fgalkin]

Well, I guess next season we'll see who has the stronger plot armour - Baelish or Bolton. My money is on Littlefinger, if only because he's a more interesting villain.

I'm not sure what the NW conspirators were thinking letting Jon and the wildlings through the wall in the first place. Tormund and his remaining raiders outnumber the nights watch by close to 100-1; assuming that a bunch of them are the elderly, women and children, they should still be able to handle what is left of the watch if they try anything.

If they didn't let them in, they'd have another Battle of Castle Black on their hands, except this time they are not ready.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Irbis]

So, is "20 good men" a new meme now? Everyone seems to bitch about that

Also, at this rate GRRM needs not bother to write WoW anymore, Season 6 will be here first

[Napoleon the Clown]

Ramsey's behavior toward Sansa... You need to keep in mind, this guy is a low-functioning sociopath. The show may have turned him into a brilliant tactician and combatant, but his social skills are non-existent. He has no sense of empathy. His behavior, once again, makes sense based off how he's behaved the entire time. His little girlfriend is also a low-functioning sociopath. Apparently Roose is really damn good at gathering a bunch of remorseless idiots.

The show paints him as extremely high-functioning. Like wizard level. But Roose has way too much invested in his plans to not step in and tell Ramsey to quit fucking it up. He stabbed the King in the North through the heart because the Lannisters had his back. The Lannisters are cratering. By his own admission, they have a lot invested in Sansa: kids now, lots of them.

Instead he just makes a few comments that Ramsey immediately ignores. I can buy that Ramsey will torture anything he gets his hands on. I just can't buy that Bolton would play this loose with his best shot to get legitimacy for his claim as Warden of the North. As part of this, why would he let Ramsey leave the keep to do his anti-Stannis magic camp burning? If Ramsey gets offed for any reason, he's only got one bun in the oven and no Stark heirs.

Jesus, the Starks left 2 heirs at Winterfell for safekeeping and look how that turned out. Westeros is a bad place to be heir to anything really.

I don't mean low-functioning as "He can't dress himself or speak in coherent sentences." I mean it in the sense that his impulse control is practically non-existent and the kinds of behavior he most enjoys are those that society is most repulsed by. If he had been just some commoner and behaved how he did, he would have been hanged years ago. Roose, on the other hand, feels no remorse about his actions and is every bit as cold as Ramsey. Difference being, Roose is able to know when to refrain from killing someone, or torturing them. Roose is just as horrible underneath it all as Ramsey, but he's socially aware enough to pretend to be a part of polite society.

Ramsey is utterly remorseless and enjoys making others suffer. He either doesn't realize that society expects you to behave a certain way, or he just doesn't care. Roose is utterly remorseless and enjoys making others suffer, too. But he knows how society thinks you should behave, an he's willing to put on the mask as needed. Just look to the little dinner party where Ramsey brings Theon in. Everything about how Ramsey behaves. He has no idea that what he's doing is completely and totally inappropriate. His actions are guided largely by feeding his immediate wants. That's why I say he's low-functioning. He isn't even able to pretend at being normal. Roose, on the other hand, can come across as any lord should. Educated, eloquent, polite... Yeah, his house is known for being brutal even by Westerosi standards. But he can put on the airs of a respectable gentleman. That's the difference. Low-functioning gets thrown in prison or executed in very short order. High-functioning can manage to go well into adulthood without people suspecting them of skinning lives animals for funsies. Roose... He strikes me as the sort that smothered his conscience with a pillow to get ahead in life. Ramsey never had one to begin with.

[Simon_Jester]

Instead he just makes a few comments that Ramsey immediately ignores. I can buy that Ramsey will torture anything he gets his hands on. I just can't buy that Bolton would play this loose with his best shot to get legitimacy for his claim as Warden of the North. As part of this, why would he let Ramsey leave the keep to do his anti-Stannis magic camp burning? If Ramsey gets offed for any reason, he's only got one bun in the oven and no Stark heirs.

Hm. Yeah, I'm not sure what he'd do then... unless, hm.

He married Walda Frey recently.

Unless this is actually against prevailing religious laws in Westeros... Roose is ruthless enough to seriously consider setting Walda aside and marry Sansa himself.

Sure, it'd permanently alienate Walder Frey, but his alliance with the Freys is far less important to him if he's secure in charge of the North. The Freys will probably fall apart anyway within the next few years- Walder can't live that much longer, none of his heirs are worthy or capable of holding together his extended clan, and they've alienated pretty much every one of their neighbors who isn't a Frey thanks to their reputation for treachery against both the Tullys and the Starks.

Moreover, the Lannisters are as you say cratering. If the Lannisters collapse the odds are the southern kingdoms will simply dissolve into chaos, and the Freys are even more screwed and irrelevant than they would be otherwise.

So if that happened- and frankly it seems likely- then by the time spring comes, Roose might well be in position to crown himself King of the North with Sansa as his queen.

And you know, that might actually be a better situation for Roose in almost every possible respect than the current situation. Because then he'd have direct control over both the Stark heir (so far as he knows the only surviving Stark), and the heirs of the heir (his own children). He wouldn't have to deal with Ramsay's utter unfitness to rule screwing up all his plans for the next couple of decades.

Headcanon: that's his backup plan and he's been considering it for the last N episodes... in which case sending Ramsay off to go attack Stannis' whole army with twenty men might well have been exactly the kind of thing he wanted to do.

Given that, canonically, the Night's Watch has been recruiting from convicted criminals all over Westeros, and that this is the main source of their recruits... Should we be surprised by this?

The wonder is that they hold together as large a fraction of the time as they actually do.

I think it had a lot to do with the Black sucking shit, but actually being a pretty safe job aside from Ranging North of the wall, which they didn't just let any asshole do. But now, what good is sentencing someone to death for desertion when the odds are, if you stay, you'll die a death a lot more horrible than just a beheading? Further, I doubt the Boltons even give a fuck about deserting Crows and it's the perfect time to just disappear. It's not like a random peasent rapist or murderer from King's Landing is easy to spot. Only recognizable people like Thorne are truly fucked.

Well, the point is that a few hundred years ago the Watch had more men, and more of them were good men who would remain loyal and true to their oaths even when the situation looked ugly. Now, they're probably majority criminal by volume, so it's no wonder they fall apart.

A Watch composed mainly of men like, oh... Jon Snow, Thorne, and even guys like Tarly or Waymar Royce*, a group like that would have pretty good unit cohesion even in the face of overwhelming odds, because those are (or were) men who'd stand by their oaths and their brothers.

But recruit from the scum of the earth, and eventually discipline just breaks, well before it would break in an equal-sized body of similarly dedicated soldiers facing similar circumstances.

*(that knight who died in the prologue of the first book fighting a White Walker- at least the guy knew how to die gallantly...)

Well they do elect their leaders rather than have them simply assigned, which would help with mutinies. But then, the last two LC's met their end at the hands of their own men.

The problem is that they can't recall a lord commander they're not satisfied with, so it doesn't guarantee they agree with their leaders. Unit cohesion and discipline are still needed. And electing your leaders doesn't create unit cohesion, and in some cases actively undermines it. Think about Age of Sail pirates; electing captains was commonplace and it hardly guaranteed that any one captain would remain in charge in the face of serious defeats.

[Elfdart]

Just about to watch Episode 10 but I'll quote something I saw elsewhere.

What's the difference between the books and the Show? Hope
And I agree with that Reddit poster, everything to date, every ray of sunshine in the books is now fully missing from the show thanks to the changes made.

Here's the post spoiled Spoiler

So after watching the end of "mothers mercy" I feel.....depressed.

This show, at this point, is just about the bad guys winning again and again and again with no real hope of vengeance.

LSH? The literal resurrection of stark justice and revenge? Gone.

Northern lords in winterfell that are clearly pro stark? Don't need them.

Frey pie? How about Sansa rape instead?

The quest for rickon stark? Why not just be sad at castle black.

D & D are heartless. I've always been annoyed at them getting criticized but I really feel like they only care about taking shit away from people. "Game of shocking bad guys win" is not a song of ice and fire.

GoT is basically pro wrestling: People watch the heels doing bad things to the babyfaces, get all angry about it, and gladly tune in next week to watch more. The producers know that the audience will keep tuning in on the off chance that a heel might get comeuppance.

[Mr Bean]

GoT is basically pro wrestling: People watch the heels doing bad things to the babyfaces, get all angry about it, and gladly tune in next week to watch more. The producers know that the audience will keep tuning in on the off chance that a heel might get comeuppance.

Except during the Title Match the Babyface wins and the crowd gets to cheer, if they don't it's only so a greater win is set up down the line.
Shame Game of Thrones murders all the wrestlers so we need a new truckload of babyfaces.