Avengers 2 (Spoilers)

[GuppyShark]

The whole "lullaby" thing between Black Widow and Hulk also seemed odd. I'm not doubting that they could form a relationship, but there was no setup for it - why would Hulk/Banner have this kind of rapport, even given how Hulk attacked her in Avengers. What about Betty Ross?

I believe that would be hypnotic suggestion given to Banner and its meant to allow Widow reach Banner, and it works specifically because Banner and Widow are getting closer. They even said the lullaby was becoming more effective.

I found this whole turnaround fascinating and I hope they cover it in the Director's Cut.

In the previous Avengers, the Hulk terrifies Black Widow. She is always in control even when facing down a god, but dealing with Banner and the Hulk are the only times she shows fear.

In this one, she has the Hulk wrapped around her finger....

[FSTargetDrone]

More of a scene-setter than a thorough review from me... I saw it at a 10:20 show this past Thursday night. The place was about 80% full and we all got to sit through the trailer for Fantastic Four without no picture, only sound. The issue was corrected, but after that people (it was a youngish crowd, mostly high-schoolers/college kids) started really getting antsy as each successive preview played, more and more murmuring and noise and it felt like everyone was just wanting to get to the main event already.

Until the preview for The Force Awakens played. The first few notes of familiar music sent a hush over the place and by the end, people were roaring with approval as the TIE Fighter chased the Falcon into the wreck and then the whole place erupted in cheers when Han and Chewie appeared. I've never seen that kind of reaction for a preview!

So on to Avengers 2 itself... I enjoyed it quite a bit. Renner was the standout surprise and he got plenty of good lines. I didn't have any real problems with the movie overall, but it would have been nice for Quicksilver to survive, given this was his first full-fledged appearance. Assuming he somehow doesn't show up again, it's a bit of a letdown. As fun as the other version of the Quicksilver character's scene was in Days Of the Future Past (and the best part of that movie, for me), this one was just more interesting because we saw more of him in action. As with The Walking Dead, the background of the various characters in the comics is irrelevant to me and I liked the pairing of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver quite a bit. Some of the action was very dense and there was a lot to miss if you blinked but that isn't really a problem. It's going to make re-watching it worthwhile.

The crowd definitely enjoyed the movie too. There was lots of cheering and positive reactions at key points (sometimes drowning out a bit of dialogue!) but it was an entertaining experience with such an enthusiastic crowd. Hulk busting the bunker, Rogers' virginity allusion and and Renner's "I could shoot him right now and no one would know" (or whatever the exact wording was) probably drew the biggest laughs. The Vision's wielding Mjolnir resulted in lots of "Whoa!" and "Yeah!" from everyone. There was a very healthy applause at the end and then the mid-credits appearance of Thanos drew just about a big a cheer as Chewie and Han. That sort of reaction doesn't happen too often at the movies and it's fun to be a part of.

(Edit: added a few thoughts)

[Kojiro]

Well there is a line from Jacosta (the JARVIS replacement) when Ultron's control panel erupts out of the ground saying 'There's the rest of the vibranium' while scanning the entire structure, down several hundred meters of rock. Whether she's referring to the new Ultron's form or the known amount used in Vision is again unclear.

Of course why Ultron needed a build a 2,500ft* vibranium core for his plans- especially since it is the weak point that defeats him- is utterly unclear. Either way it's a fuckload of the supposedly incredibly rare vibranium.






*Based on a screen cap when Jocasta scans the core. As the length is scanned it ends up at 2,500 though the unit is of measurement is unclear. 2,500ft is 762 meters which seems like a fair estimation based on the visuals.

[Gaidin]

Personally I think Hawkeye and Vision owned that movie. Not because of lines, but because of sheer development. Hell, I just had to look up the name J.A.R.V.I.S. on wikipedia because the character development and transition seemed that damn complete the way they did it and it wasn't really registering with me. It was just Vision. After just a day. Whether that makes sense to anybody, I don't know. And Hawkeye, as the one with a very personal life distinctly outside the Avengers but was choosing to take the risk anyway because it was the right thing to do, it said a lot about him compared to all the others. Other than those two I think the next were basically Black Widow and Hulk for characters. Lesser, but still pretty interesting. The usual trio of Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America seemed to get relegated to, well, a vehicle to move the story as the ones noted got developed. I liked that for this round.

[Guardsman Bass]

I saw it earlier yesterday, and enjoyed it - although I'll third and fourth the pacing issues. Parts of it dragged on for too long, and it felt like it didn't do as good of a job as the first Avengers movie in handling all the "Avengers vs Cannon Fodder" fights. Near the end I started feeling a little bit of "okay, get on with it!".

I really liked the interactions between Ultron and the Vision, especially at the end. I wish they could have had a longer fight scene than what we got.

[FedRebel]

Why did Scarlet Witch let Tony leave with the staff at the beigining? She thought Stark would destroy himself with it...that's what she told Ultron when they first met

The Stark artillery barrage that's the twins motivation? Sokovia has an anti-American attitude, likely it was an American peacekeeping mission (not unlike America's past "vacations" in the Balkans) where the Artillery was intended for another target (like the B-2 strike in 1999 that accidentally hit the Chinese Embassy in Serbia.) Stark munitions, Hammer targeting systems...maybe.

Aside from the final scene in 'Dirty Half Dozen' the AoS tie-in is nonexistant. Without the Maria Hill teleconference, the episode is far from "it's all connected". Maybe if the next episode has Fury beat Gonzales with his cane for mucking up Coulson's operations while claiming to be the "REAL Shield" ...maybe there'd be something. Think they should've had Gonzales' ship be the Helicarrier instead of a stock Nimitz, would set up the "Here...go nuts, atleast until Fury comes to ask for it back...Spoiler Alert!"

[Coop D'etat]

Well there is a line from Jacosta (the JARVIS replacement) when Ultron's control panel erupts out of the ground saying 'There's the rest of the vibranium' while scanning the entire structure, down several hundred meters of rock. Whether she's referring to the new Ultron's form or the known amount used in Vision is again unclear.

Of course why Ultron needed a build a 2,500ft* vibranium core for his plans- especially since it is the weak point that defeats him- is utterly unclear. Either way it's a fuckload of the supposedly incredibly rare vibranium.






*Based on a screen cap when Jocasta scans the core. As the length is scanned it ends up at 2,500 though the unit is of measurement is unclear. 2,500ft is 762 meters which seems like a fair estimation based on the visuals.

Stark's backup program was named F.R.I.D.A.Y., as in "his girl Friday." Not Jocasta, which is the name of a female AI Ultron makes to be his girlfriend in the comics.

[Lost Soal]

Well there is a line from Jacosta (the JARVIS replacement) when Ultron's control panel erupts out of the ground saying 'There's the rest of the vibranium' while scanning the entire structure, down several hundred meters of rock. Whether she's referring to the new Ultron's form or the known amount used in Vision is again unclear.

Of course why Ultron needed a build a 2,500ft* vibranium core for his plans- especially since it is the weak point that defeats him- is utterly unclear. Either way it's a fuckload of the supposedly incredibly rare vibranium.

*Based on a screen cap when Jocasta scans the core. As the length is scanned it ends up at 2,500 though the unit is of measurement is unclear. 2,500ft is 762 meters which seems like a fair estimation based on the visuals.

Stark's backup program was named F.R.I.D.A.Y., as in "his girl Friday." Not Jocasta, which is the name of a female AI Ultron makes to be his girlfriend in the comics.

Just got back from rewatching it. The Vibranium core was generating a field which was keeping the mass together. Without it the city would have broken apart.
Yes, the A.I he plugs in was F.R.I.D.A.Y., however I'm believe one of the other chips said Jocasta. Was just a quick flash so can't be totally sure, will have to wait either for the DVD/BR or someone to "find" the scene on the net somewhere.

[Gaidin]

Of course why Ultron needed a build a 2,500ft* vibranium core for his plans- especially since it is the weak point that defeats him- is utterly unclear. Either way it's a fuckload of the supposedly incredibly rare vibranium.

It should be noted, an AI able to scour the internet(likely including all darknets) for all sources and sellers of vibranium had only one choice of where to go to get enough for his two projects. I'd say it's pretty damn rare enough. Just a thought.

[Lord Revan]

I dunno about MCU but IIRC in the comics Vibranium wasn't rare cause there was very little of it but rather most of it was in Wakandan soil and Wakanda was powerful enough to prevent others getting access to that if the Wakandan goverment didn't want that, so if you didn't want to deal with the Black Panther one way or another you had to scrounge what little vibranium there was outside of Wakanda.

[Nephtys]

A friend mentioned to me there were a number of little hidden nerd-details in some other parts too. Like apparently when the team is at the party and trying to pick up the Hammer, Nat passes. But apparently she /is/ worthy to hold it from some later comic thing. And that Rogers can make it barely budge since he too gets it at some point?

Still, a nice way to get the audience to trust weird plastic british man.

I did have a little bit of 'oh thats convenient' when Quicksilver gets a boyish look in his eye at a billion tons of flying US taxpayer dollars coming to save them.

[Crazedwraith]

huh. Apparently there's been tremendous backlash at Joss Whedon about Black Widow in this film. To the extend he's left Twitter. Heard He's not doing Avengers 3 either...

[The Romulan Republic]

Its either misinformed or dishonest to suggest that Whedon is not making Avengers three because of the response to Age of Ultron. I've been hearing rumours (and I think it was confirmed) that he was not making the next film for a long time.

Incidentally, why are people pissed at the portrayal of Black Widow? I haven't seen the film, but I'm curious enough that I don't mind a few spoilers in this case.

[Lost Soal]

Partly because of what Black Widow said to Banner about her being a monster, idiots heard "sterilised" and "who's the monster now" and decided to ignore everything else she was saying and lose their heads. I also saw cries of transphobic, racist & something about a rape joke, all of which I am clueless about.

[The Romulan Republic]

I wouldn't put it past Whedon to make a rape joke, not necessarily because he condones rape but because he has a tendency toward twisted, dark comedy.

The sterilization thing sounds bad, but I'll wait until I've seen it in context to judge it.

[Crazedwraith]

Also BW is captured by Ultron at one point in the film and rescued by Banner.

[Lost Soal]

Also BW is captured by Ultron at one point in the film and rescued by Banner.

The fact that she stole The Vision & led the avengers to Ultron even while captured seems to escape these morons

[Mr Bean]

Also BW is captured by Ultron at one point in the film and rescued by Banner.

The fact that she stole The Vision & led the avengers to Ultron even while captured seems to escape these morons

Also the fact she got kidnapped by Ultron was purely a function of Ultron wanting someone... anyone to show off to.

[Lost Soal]

Also BW is captured by Ultron at one point in the film and rescued by Banner.

The fact that she stole The Vision & led the avengers to Ultron even while captured seems to escape these morons

Also the fact she got kidnapped by Ultron was purely a function of Ultron wanting someone... anyone to show off to.

As for needing saving, Hawkeye (Twice) and Thor, both needed saving. Does that destroy their characters?

[Sinewmire]

Also BW is captured by Ultron at one point in the film and rescued by Banner.

The fact that she stole The Vision & led the avengers to Ultron even while captured seems to escape these morons

That's her thing. She pretends vulnerability and then exploits.

Like how Loki used her girlish love for Hawkeye and made her cry in the first Avengers. Oh wait.

[Kojiro]

Whedon was never going to do Infinity War, that's going to the Russo brothers (who incidentally are also doing Cap 3: Civil War and did Cap 2: The Winter Soldier).

The rape joke people are up in arms about comes from the scene where Tony tries to lift Mjolnir. After being told he gets to rule Asgard if successful, he quips he'll be reintroducing prima nocta. This is obviously a joke about how terrible and evil a ruler he'd be by using rape as the benchmark of evil because as we all know, rape is a fucking terrible crime.

As for why Whedon left this has been put together. Patton Oswald and Jewel Staite have also suggested his leaving is due to the backlash. It certainly seems like he had some fickle supporters.

As for needing saving, Hawkeye (Twice) and Thor, both needed saving. Does that destroy their characters?

Being vulnerable and needing help doesn't destroy any character. If anything it helps develop the character and is only a problem with it becomes the default state. BW is a stone cold killer and has been for several films. Whedon was trying to show more of her than the emotionless assassin.

[Lost Soal]

Whedon was never going to do Infinity War, that's going to the Russo brothers (who incidentally are also doing Cap 3: Civil War and did Cap 2: The Winter Soldier).

The rape joke people are up in arms about comes from the scene where Tony tries to lift Mjolnir. After being told he gets to rule Asgard if successful, he quips he'll be reintroducing prima nocta. This is obviously a joke about how terrible and evil a ruler he'd be by using rape as the benchmark of evil because as we all know, rape is a fucking terrible crime.

Okay. Stupid over-reaction. What a surprise. Incidentally, no outcry about the impotency joke?

As for why Whedon left this has been put together. Patton Oswald and Jewel Staite have also suggested his leaving is due to the backlash. It certainly seems like he had some fickle supporters.

Bullshit. He announced before it was ever released and follow-up interviews make it seam apparent its because he was tired of fighting Marvels executive orders.

As for needing saving, Hawkeye (Twice) and Thor, both needed saving. Does that destroy their characters?

Being vulnerable and needing help doesn't destroy any character. If anything it helps develop the character and is only a problem with it becomes the default state. BW is a stone cold killer and has been for several films. Whedon was trying to show more of her than the emotionless assassin.

I know that. Tell that to the people who seem to think that if a women ever needs saving then its sexism, regardless of the situation or anything else she's done

[The Romulan Republic]

Because an impotency joke is entirely equivalent to a rape joke.

Do you even have any idea how sexist you sound?

Edit: Basically, it appears that you think that if someone gets pissed off by a rape joke, its hypocritical for them not to be pissed off by an impotency joke, which implies that impotency and rape are somehow at least equivalent in seriousness.

[Lost Soal]

Because an impotency joke is entirely equivalent to a rape joke.

Do you even have any idea how sexist you sound?

Edit: Basically, it appears that you think that if someone gets pissed off by a rape joke, its hypocritical for them not to be pissed off by an impotency joke, which implies that impotency and rape are somehow at least equivalent in seriousness.

I asked a question because I'm not following all the bullshit outrage. That is not stating an equivalence, its asking a fucking question jackass.

[Gaidin]

This is the first time I've ever heard of that equivalency, just saying.