Bit of Lit: the Dresden Files

[Ralin]

'Vignette' was literally just three pages of Bob and Harry bickering because Harry's advertising doesn't capture the glamour in what he does.

Was that the one where Butcher lost track of the deadline and ended up writing the entire thing the morning it was due?

[Ahriman238]

'Vignette' was literally just three pages of Bob and Harry bickering because Harry's advertising doesn't capture the glamour in what he does.

Was that the one where Butcher lost track of the deadline and ended up writing the entire thing the morning it was due?

I believe so.

[Ralin]

So here's a thought. What is the big thing we're repeatedly told the White God and by extension his angels care about? Free will and letting mortals make choices.

And what's the one thing we know Nemesis does?

Yeah. And Nicodemus seems to oppose Nemesis somehow.

[LadyTevar]

So here's a thought. What is the big thing we're repeatedly told the White God and by extension his angels care about? Free will and letting mortals make choices.

And what's the one thing we know Nemesis does?

Yeah. And Nicodemus seems to oppose Nemesis somehow.

I do think that Nicodemus was referring to the White God when he said "Nemesis", wasn't he?

[Not A Pipe]

So here's a thought. What is the big thing we're repeatedly told the White God and by extension his angels care about? Free will and letting mortals make choices.

And what's the one thing we know Nemesis does?

Yeah. And Nicodemus seems to oppose Nemesis somehow.

I do think that Nicodemus was referring to the White God when he said "Nemesis", wasn't he?

I don't recall Nicodemus every actually saying Nemesis, do you remember where that happened? I do recall him referring to keeping a character safe from the "Enemy". That could be Nemesis, but given the context it seems more likely that he is referring to the White God and is possibly a C.S. Lewis reference.

[Ralin]

I do think that Nicodemus was referring to the White God when he said "Nemesis", wasn't he?

Which book are you referring to?

[spoiler="Skin Game spoilers]If it's the latest one, he tells Deidre that she'll be protected from 'the Adversary,' which presumably means Satan, God or Nemesis. I don't think he ever uses the name Nemesis in Skin Game. Since these are fallen angels and their pawns we're talking about I'm betting he meant God[/spoiler]

[Gaidin]

I do think that Nicodemus was referring to the White God when he said "Nemesis", wasn't he?

Which book are you referring to?

[spoiler="Skin Game spoilers]If it's the latest one, he tells Deidre that she'll be protected from 'the Adversary,' which presumably means Satan, God or Nemesis. I don't think he ever uses the name Nemesis in Skin Game. Since these are fallen angels and their pawns we're talking about I'm betting he meant God[/spoiler]

Spoiler

Nemesis is the Outsiders I think is confirmed in Cold Days, and I think Adversary is a new term specific to Nicodemus from Skin Game. Nemesis I think is interesting because I think this whole story puts up the idea that Nicodemus will fight the Outsiders, just in his own way, and not alongside anyone else, and while doing his own thing and pursuing his own agenda. As far as Adversary, I think that one is specific to the White God. Not Satan, who's another fallen angel, theoretically, in this series. Albeit probably a much more powerful one.

[Ralin]

Spoiler

Nemesis is the Outsiders I think is confirmed in Cold Days, and I think Adversary is a new term specific to Nicodemus from Skin Game. Nemesis I think is interesting because I think this whole story puts up the idea that Nicodemus will fight the Outsiders, just in his own way, and not alongside anyone else, and while doing his own thing and pursuing his own agenda. As far as Adversary, I think that one is specific to the White God. Not Satan, who's another fallen angel, theoretically, in this series. Albeit probably a much more powerful one.

[spoiler="Skin Game]Indeed, thus the "these are fallen angels" bit. Christians refer to Satan as "the Adversary." Makes sense that Satan's homies like the Denarians would use the same term in reverse.[/spoiler]

[Ahriman238]

Read "Something Borrowed" "It's my Birthday too" and "Heorot."

First, Will and Georgia get married but a fairy named Jenny Greenteeth replaces the blushing bride (a changeling bride, wasn't this an episode of My Little Pony?) and Harry and Murphy have to sort things out. Decent enough, Harry's failing to be tactful with Bill's new in-laws was pretty funny.

Then Harry goes to all the trouble to get a birthday present for his brother, who isn't home. He's at a vampire LARP game in a mostly-closed mall. Then one of the LARPers is now a real Black Court Vamp returned to revenge herself on the group. Harry and Thomas get involved and next thing you know, the baddy is dead, the mall is in ruins and the present is gone. You'd think a long-term vamp LARPer would be a bit more cautious, particularly approaching people who know all the weaknesses of her vampire type.

Heorot Dresden teams up with Ms. Gard to track a grendelkin, as in, actual descendent of Grendel, who stole a young woman and a keg of mead . Good times are had by all, except the grendelkin, and the malks.

[LadyTevar]

I was going over the books as I rearrange my shelves (the Dresden Files broke the shelf from the weight!). In book 1, Dresden summoned a demon, and in exchange for information gave the demon part of his True Name.

Now, that is one thread that has YET to be returned to. I really don't think that Butcher would forget it, as he'd pulled on threads we never thought about before (Waldo kills a former Denarian, then becomes a Knight for example). So, this leads to the question -- when will that Demon be back with Dresden's True Name. "Hell's Bells" maybe?

[Gaidin]

Curiously, we may or may not directly be back to that thread. Dresden has changed.

We have visited it indirectly in Ghost Story when Harry attempts to familiarize Uriel's name and Uriel just spits his name out full bore in a manner that unnerved him. The thing is, I'm willing to bet that at this stage the people that need to know already know, the people that don't don't. The demon that was attempting to get a name by literally having him speak it? That name's old hat because Dresden's a mortal and in the past decade...fifteen years or so of book time, Dresden has changed massively from just PI to Warden to THE Warden to Winter Knight. How he thinks of his name, how he says it? Especially as the Winter Knight now? If he tries to continue that deal, it might be starting over from scratch.

Your best reason for his name coming up is literally when he had to shout the whole damn thing out in Cold Days against the Outsiders mind spell. They might try something. As I said, those that have a need to know, have a possible way of knowing it. At least so I'm willing to bet.

[White Haven]

The fact that there's been a demon trying to get his name, coupled with Gaidin's point about the name being variable, does lend itself to a hilarious scene down the road. A 'target neutralized...waitwait, target not neutralized, target angry, target angry!' scene.

[Gaidin]

The fact that there's been a demon trying to get his name, coupled with Gaidin's point about the name being variable, does lend itself to a hilarious scene down the road. A 'target neutralized...waitwait, target not neutralized, target angry, target angry!' scene.

I could almost picture that as a book's opening scene in a move against Winter from the mortal side.

[Darth Yan]

Sorry if I'm flogging a dead horse, but some reviewers have....interesting opinions about the dresden files.

http://dragon-quill.blogspot.com/search ... rm%20Front


To sum it up the series is sexist, harry's a sociopath and the potion scene must say all women are gold digging whores simply because harry doesn't say otherwise.

[Vendetta]

Butcher has been asked about the portrayal of women particularly in the early books and his response was basically "I was a bit childish and not very good back then".

So yeah, there are problems with the presentation of the first few books in particular.

[Crazedwraith]

Huh. That's interesting. We'd had quite the debate on the topic previously I think. (Though with people who'd not actually read the books)

And I'd always taken the view that 'Dresden is sexist character. That doesn't mean Butcher's a misogynist'. And Harry is sexist and later books have character development where he improves on that front. So it's interesting to hear what Butcher has said on the topic.

[Ralin]

I think it's clearly a mixture of both. How much of each, that's a lot less clear. Butcher said something to the effect that he started writing the series in his mid twenties and that he hadn't yet emerged from the testosterone haze and realized that titties might not be the most important thing in the world. So clearly he knows he had issues and just as clearly he's wised up by some amount since.

And really part of it is just that he's a good enough writer to make a good story out of elements that by all rights should be stupid and obnoxious. Much like the fact that Harry is basically this big awkward aspie geek who makes constant nerd references in between totally pwning people who are way older and stronger than him. Let's not forget how his other series was born.

[LadyTevar]

How was Butcher's other series born??

[Steve]

Is this about Codex Alera and how it was supposedly formed because someone dared Butcher to write something mixing Pokemon with Romans?

[Vaporous]

I was going over the books as I rearrange my shelves (the Dresden Files broke the shelf from the weight!). In book 1, Dresden summoned a demon, and in exchange for information gave the demon part of his True Name.

Now, that is one thread that has YET to be returned to. I really don't think that Butcher would forget it, as he'd pulled on threads we never thought about before (Waldo kills a former Denarian, then becomes a Knight for example). So, this leads to the question -- when will that Demon be back with Dresden's True Name. "Hell's Bells" maybe?

I think he gave himself an out someplace by suggesting that True Names change subtly over time, but that's too good a plot hook to waste.

[Ralin]

Apparently Butcher got into this long, drawn out online debate over what was more important: good writing or good ideas, with Butcher insisting that a good writer could make a good story out of any premise. The other party finally challenged Butcher to write a story based on a terrible premise of their choosing. Butcher said no.

"Give me two retarded premises."

"Pokemon meets Roman legions."

"...You're on."

[Vendetta]

Also officially Butcher lost the bet.

Because he didn't post the story on the online forum he was having the argument on like he said he was going to, he got it published instead.

[Gaidin]

Trying to hold that lame a technicality against him makes me think you're the one on the other forum. Just sayin'.

[LadyTevar]

While he may have TECHNICALLY Lost, because it wasn't on the Forum, Butcher totally won the bet, because it was good enough to not only get printed but to become a SERIES of novels.

So, yeah, he lost and is laughing all the way to the bank over it

[Steve]

I've been avoiding that series since, well, I'm not into Pokémon "gotta catch em all" stuff. But I've checked out book 1 from the library and I think I will see what it's like.

I know he's doing a steampunkish airship setting now. Which is clearly unacceptable because I NEED MOAR DRESDEN RAAAAR!

....yes, I'm kidding.

Although now I'm wondering about if any more short stories will be coming out. Especially if any are coming out with alternate viewpoints. We've already had Dresden short stories from the POVs of Thomas, Murphy, Molly, and Marcone. Might be interesting to see another from some other Dresden ally. William or Georgia, perhaps. Butters. Or, heh, to keep that theme of "M" names.... Mouse.