Legend of Korra Book 3 Talkback - "Changes" (Spoilers)

[Ahriman238]

They tried to kidnap a child, for unknown reasons, and failed. Does that really sound like something that needs to be a capital punishment? Or do you want to argue that trying to harm the Avatar is different from attacking anyone else?

[bilateralrope]

[quote="FaxModem1"]Now, here's an honest question, considering that culturally, the four kingdoms and Republic City are at a cultural level of about say 1930 or so, why is there no death penalty for their dangerous prisoners? It just seems like an utter absurd commitment of resources to cage four people like that for decades, where with one slip up, they're free to wreak havoc again./quote]

Especially given Zaheer's cage when he wasn't a bender when they imprisoned him. Why does a non-bender get such an elaborate prison ?

There is something suspicious going on there.

[JME2]

My guess is they were kept alive in order for the White Lotus to figure out why they went after Korra.

My best bud has a theory that Team Zaheer's mission was to kill Korra under orders from the Earth Queen.

The next phase of the Cycle would have gone to the Earth Kingdom. And we know the Queen wants to take back territory she feels Zuko and Aang stole from her father.

[The Vortex Empire]

That sounds extremely plausible.

[JME2]

Yeah.

If they killed Korra, the Queen would have had a one-man army ready for grooming appear in the Earth Kingdom.

It would have been the perfect general to lead an army to retake the lost territories.

[Steve]

An interesting theory, although even if true I suspect Zaheer and his group had their own motivations.

It would also show how foolish she is; if her involvement got out, it would probably mean the Earth Kingdom ending up at war with the rest of the world and even an internal conflict against itself with various territories reacting with horror at the Earth Queen's attempt to go after the Avatar.

[bilateralrope]

Remember that the plan was to kidnap Korra. Not kill her. Maybe the plan was to indoctrinate her into "restoring the order that the fire nation disrupted". AKA giving the Earth Kingdom back its traditional lands. The next avatar being born into the Earth Kingdom is just a backup plan.

Though I can't see a plan like that, or even a plan of killing Korra and grabbing the next Avatar coming from the Earth Queen. Though I could see it coming from the Dai Lai.

[Lord Revan]

tbh I dout the Earth Queen is as much in control as she thinks she is but rather is manipulated from behind the scenes, she seems too obviously the main villian while being clearly just a person and not even a bender to actually be it (Zhao and Azula were just the minions and Fire Lord/Phoenix king Ozai was more of a presense then an actual person until the last few episodes of ATLA).

[bilateralrope]

Just like the Earth King, the Dai Lai look like the people who are really in power in the Earth Kingdom.

Question is, is the Earth Kingdom having internal trouble because the Dai Lai are screwing up or because new technology has given the Earth Queen more power than she can handle ?
For example, radio letting the Queen give out orders that don't pass through the Dai Lai's filters.

[The Nomad]

Now, here's an honest question, considering that culturally, the four kingdoms and Republic City are at a cultural level of about say 1930 or so, why is there no death penalty for their dangerous prisoners? It just seems like an utter absurd commitment of resources to cage four people like that for decades, where with one slip up, they're free to wreak havoc again.

I'm not arguing for the death penalty here, but this does seem like a case where killing them off would be the more pragmatic solution. It made sense for the Fire Nation not to do so with the Avatar, because the new one would just roll around in a few years, but what's so special about this gang?

Remember all the qualms that Aang had about killing? It's probable the Avatar that founded the Republic would have influenced its outlook on people.

Besides, kids' show.

[JME2]

It's been nice to see Lin's backstory finally fleshed out over the last two weeks.

So many facets of her character now make sense.

[Ahriman238]

My best bud has a theory that Team Zaheer's mission was to kill Korra under orders from the Earth Queen.

The next phase of the Cycle would have gone to the Earth Kingdom. And we know the Queen wants to take back territory she feels Zuko and Aang stole from her father.

I suspect in ten thousand years of the Avatar cycle, people have tried to control the Avatar this way before. I also suspect such efforts have failed hilariously. Whether or not the spirit that was originally Wan's is truly incorruptible or not, the Avatar needs to wander the world and train with members of each nation, both because benders of one element make poor teachers of another, and because such a system is probably in place specifically to prevent one nation from controlling the Avatar. If the Avatar didn't show, wouldn't the other nations grow suspicious?

But most of all, because sooner or later the spirits of the past Avatars would appear to the present one and set them straight. There's just no way to prevent a loyally raised, indoctrinated Avatar from pulling a Zuko.

[bilateralrope]

If the Avatar didn't show, wouldn't the other nations grow suspicious?

That depends on how long it typically takes for the Avatar to be announced. Think back to the monks of the air temple discussing if they should tell Aang that he is the Avatar or not. Telling him he was the Avatar directly led to him getting frozen for a century.

When Korra was discovered, she was much younger than Aang. Keeping her secret while indoctrinating her for a few years would not have aroused suspicion.

[Steve]

On the one hand, the diversion in Episode 7 might seem to detract from the main storyline. OTOH... it was an excellent episode and Book 3 continus to be the best one yet

[bilateralrope]

Is anyone else finding it odd that Toph became chief of police for Republic City ?

Two things stand out. The first is that the police force use written reports, reports that Toph is unable to read because she is blind. The second is that her attitude of not caring about rules and boundaries in regards to her family seems at odds with a position on the police upholding societies rules and boundaries.

The first makes me think someone was spending a lot of political effort to keep her there, reinforced by her position being shaky enough that Suyin being arrested could threaten her position. The second makes me think someone convinced her to join the police instead of it being a career decision she made on her own.

[JME2]

On the one hand, the diversion in Episode 7 might seem to detract from the main storyline. OTOH... it was an excellent episode and Book 3 continus to be the best one yet

Yeah, it was filler, but decent character development for Tenzin and Bumi.

And this is the best season since Book One.

[Ahriman238]

Tenzin continues to try too hard. One problem the old Air Nomads didn't seem to have was taking themselves too seriously. Tenzin needs to learn to laugh and play and let the new Airbenders revel in their powers, experience flight and super-leaping and even that airbending game from way back when. Get them to think of themselves as both Airbenders and Air Nomads before he starts getting into the deeper parts of the culture and spirituality. Still, triumphing over a common enemy has helped a lot, and they're even getting used to the idea of shaved heads.

But he did get a nice moment with Bumi, who did after all grow up with his father's culture, however much he chose to pursue it or was permitted by Aang and Tenzin.

Whether Jinora is ready for her mastery tattoos, I'm not prepared to say. We haven't exactly seen epic feats of airbending out of her, but she is very spiritual and, frankly, they gave the tats to Aang when he was twelve.


I do wonder that Aang never took the time to learn metalbending from Toph, who was already his teacher and a good friend. For that matter, shouldn't Korra ask Mako for tips on shooting lightning from her hands? It's been useful in a couple of fights, even if I suspect she'd shy like Aang from a one-hit kill move.

I found the conflict between Su and Lin very believable, and a metalbending brawl was pretty entertaining too. I couldn't help but think that Lin, today, could stop a whipping out-of-control cable with a flick of her wrist. But then, she's had plenty of incentive to learn that rapid and easy control, hasn't she?

Jinora could find Korra and Kai because she had a connection to them. Zaheer seems to be able to use the same technique, so what's his connection to Korra? Granted it's a major problem that he has a way to track her that they probably can't stop, and is coming to wreak havoc on the Metal Clan (I forget the name of their city and won't try to approximate).

[Lord Revan]

Aang was a special case though due to being the Avatar and it was clearly implied it was not typical for air nomads to get their master tattoos that young.

as for why Aang never tried to learn metal bending or Korra tried to learn Lightining generation you got to remember that in the end the avatar first and fore most the bender of the nation they were born to, so Aang as first and foremost an air bender and thus earth was the hardest for him and Korra is first and foremost a water bender and tbh I can't recall her ever using anything but the basics in fire and I would suspect that the White Lotus would focus on training her in the opposite of her natural element as it's suppose to be the hardest to learn.

[bilateralrope]

Aang was a special case though due to being the Avatar and it was clearly implied it was not typical for air nomads to get their master tattoos that young.

as for why Aang never tried to learn metal bending or Korra tried to learn Lightining generation you got to remember that in the end the avatar first and fore most the bender of the nation they were born to, so Aang as first and foremost an air bender and thus earth was the hardest for him and Korra is first and foremost a water bender and tbh I can't recall her ever using anything but the basics in fire and I would suspect that the White Lotus would focus on training her in the opposite of her natural element as it's suppose to be the hardest to learn.

The hardest element for Korra was never fire. It was air.

I suspect the reason is that the White Lotus were too focused on tradition and ignored the newer techniques. Especially when Korra's difficulties with airbending would be more important for them to solve.

Aang might have had trouble with metalbending because he had a lot of trouble with earthbending.

[avatarxprime]

Well Aang got his mastery tattoos so early because he was just that good. To earn the tattoos you needed to display mastery of the all the different airbender techniques/forms, or (as Aang did) master most of them and develop a new and unique one of your own (Aang's air scooter).

[Steve]

Only one new episode last night. They apparently gave the fans a heart attack by a statement that Korra was being taken off the TV channel.... and at SDCC the creators had to specify that the plan is to do only digital releases for now on, as Korra gets much higher ratings on the internet or some such.

As for the story... this book is shaping up to be the best one yet. Yes, I'm repeating myself, but I thought it should be mentioned. Zaheer's team is frighteningly good with how well they're coordinated, which explains a lot of why they pasted Zuko, Tonraq, and the Angst Twins in the North Pole; that group wasn't as synced up. Team Korra and the Metalbenders worked better as a team.

And with the treachery in the city... it appears Zaheer has more supporters than apparent. The symbolism of the Book 3 trailer, with the White Lotus insignia turning red, seems to be particularly fitting now.

Also... they're still trying to take Korra alive. This poses some very interesting possibilities as to Zaheer's motive; it's one thing to kidnap a four year old girl, since you could conceivably mold her as wanted. But now? That's obviously not their purpose.

[Koolaidkirby]

Am I the only one who was really glad the anonymous metal bender guards were really competent compared to most of the anonymous guards in this show? *cough* white lotus *cough*

I mean seriously how often do you see a pair of anonymous guards keeping the main villain of the series busy for THAT long, they climbed all the way to the roof of the flower and they were still fighting him.

[Steve]

They may be more experienced, given the collapsing fabric of the Earth Kingdom at this point, and we can see they were acting with far more coordination than White Lotus was.

That's what makes Zaheer's gang so dangerous. They're not just powerful, they fight as a coordinated unit. See bits like the lavabender and waterbender giving combustion lady cover fire when it was clear Bolin was going after her.

[bilateralrope]

Those metal flowers that cover the buildings at night must be there to defend against something. I wonder if we will ever see what it is.

Also... they're still trying to take Korra alive. This poses some very interesting possibilities as to Zaheer's motive; it's one thing to kidnap a four year old girl, since you could conceivably mold her as wanted. But now? That's obviously not their purpose.

I wonder if they have any link to Vaatu.

[Lord Revan]

Is anyone else finding it odd that Toph became chief of police for Republic City ?

Two things stand out. The first is that the police force use written reports, reports that Toph is unable to read because she is blind. The second is that her attitude of not caring about rules and boundaries in regards to her family seems at odds with a position on the police upholding societies rules and boundaries.

The first makes me think someone was spending a lot of political effort to keep her there, reinforced by her position being shaky enough that Suyin being arrested could threaten her position. The second makes me think someone convinced her to join the police instead of it being a career decision she made on her own.

You got to remember that while Toph did not like rules and boundaries all that much thanks to her parents she did have fairly strong sense of right and wrong, so it's not that odd for her to become the police chief.

For the reports I'd assume they're a formality imposed by someone else and it's probably easy enough to get someone to read them for Toph (assuming they weren't writen in an equilevant of braile).