Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (SPOILERS)

[Broomstick]

Anyone else a bit tired of the mind controlled guy apologizing to the girl cliche? If this was a man enchanting a woman and having sex with her, it would be viewed as rape, and that's what the Enchantress did to Ward, and yet, for some reason, he's the one trying to apologize to May about it.

Societal double-standard, which is a reason why in real-life men who are raped are often more traumatized than women. Imagine the outrage if the script called for a woman to apologize for being raped!

[Tsyroc]

Anyone else a bit tired of the mind controlled guy apologizing to the girl cliche? If this was a man enchanting a woman and having sex with her, it would be viewed as rape, and that's what the Enchantress did to Ward, and yet, for some reason, he's the one trying to apologize to May about it.

Lorelei is the Enchantress' sister not actually the Enchantress, but I agree with your point. It'll be interesting if Ward having sex with an Asgardian comes up again, either in regard to mind control or just one of the guys asking because it's something of the sort guys would ask each other about.

So, Ward either likes Skye, Simmons, or if they're really pulling a left turn, Coulson or Fitz. Place your bets.

My first impression would be Skye but if the writers feel that enough people think the same way I'm sure they will move heaven and Earth to take that left turn.

[Tsyroc]

I'm not sure what I think of this episode with Sif.

A few thoughts... Spoiler

Asgardian strength is all over the show. Assuming Sif and Lorelei weren't holding back they should have been smashing each other all over that cell. This wouldn't be so bad if they didn't show half a dozen people getting smashed about in just such a way. I really wish super strength was portrayed consistently. I'd also liked to have seen a fight between one of Asgards premier warriors and a schemer be far more decisive.

Spoiler

I think they tried to preemptively answer that by having Sif state that Lorelei was a skilled fighter earlier in the episode. I still think their "cage match" was pretty weak.

Spoiler

Lorelei seems utterly technologically inept, unable to realise a motorcycle is a primitive (by her standards) transport device while Sif seems to think a state of the art 3d interface is antiquated. There seems to be an odd thing with Asgardians being medieval and advanced the MCU is struggling with.

Spoiler

Agreed. It seemed pretty evident in Thor: the Dark World. They had flying boats, force fields, some sort of anti aircraft weapons, some sort of missiles, but no personal projectile weapons. They did something to high tech the swords and shields a bit but it still is a bit weird.

Spoiler

Sif's claim that Lorelei uses outright sorcery (though it appears to be counterable with tech) didn't seem to phase anyone nearly as much as it should given their skepticism at psychics. It did explain why it was Sif and not any of the other Warriors Three though which was nice. I wonder if it's intended (ignoring more complex sexual identities because I seriously doubt they considered them) to work on straight men only or all men. Oddly there is something it affects found both in Asgardian and human men (to say nothing of other species).

Spoiler

I thought there was a subtle bit of shock to Sif's revelation but it certainly could have used more reactions or comments later, or in future episodes. Hopefully Fitz and Simmons will be bitching about "sorcery" while they work on other things.

Spoiler

May is ... traitor isn't the right word but it seems very similar to the thing they had going with Skye, enemy within type thing. Feels a bit early to reuse it.

Spoiler

My assumption was that she was recording a message that is supposed to only be accessible by Fury. Fury convincing her to join Coulson on "The Bus" adds a little bit more to her character's reasons for being on the team when it seemed that in the first episode she didn't want to be in the field anymore. It fits with the comics that Fury has a lot of people who are super loyal to him beyond just their loyalty to SHIELD.

Spoiler

And holy crap Jamie Alexander's acting was terrible which sucks cos I like her in the Thor movies. It's actually interesting to see the same character in the same universe played by the same actor under different direction.

Spoiler

I was thinking the same thing at first but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that it was a combination of the direction and how the character was written for this episode. I also thought she looked better in Thor: The Dark World. They went more with how she looked in the first movie.

Sif also might not be at her best knowing that Thor has been spending the last several months on Earth with a human woman instead of on Asgard. Now she's on Earth but she's got a mission to accomplish that doesn't include looking for him, and I'm tend to think that she wouldn't anyway.

I did like that Coulson described how Sif took on the Destroyer in the first Thor movie.

Spoiler

Sif also mentioned Kree as being a blue life form, making the GH a possible Kree.

Spoiler

Since Kree were mentioned in the middle of her list I'm thinking it is still a possibility. If she is correct in her statement that no blue skinned aliens have been to Earth then that would make it more likely that GH was an Inhuman or a Atlantean. I'm more inclined to think that Sif's information was just not correct even if she thought it was.

[Tsyroc]

So I'm going to go ahead and classify Ward as dumb muscle. I'm trying to think of any scenario that would lead to him allowing someone he knows can mind control him with her voice (and maybe her touch if he's super lucky) to walk up to him and grab him by the arm. While he is pointing the worlds most stunningly effective tranquilliser gun at her. And demanding she surrender.

Other than that, it was an OK episode. Started rocky, improved a bit toward the end.

I couldn't understand why he didn't shoot her with the ICE rounds right off the bat. Considering that regular bullets have so far appeared to just bounce off of Asgardians (or at least their clothing) it would have been perfectly acceptable that the ICE rounds wouldn't do anything to her either. Even if they hit her skin and did what they were supposed to maybe it takes more than 1 of those bullets to incapacitate an Asgardian? Instead the scene just made Ward look stupid. If he was supposed to be somewhat under her spell before she touched him then they didn't get that across in how the scene was done.

[Batman]

Anyone else a bit tired of the mind controlled guy apologizing to the girl cliche? If this was a man enchanting a woman and having sex with her, it would be viewed as rape, and that's what the Enchantress did to Ward, and yet, for some reason, he's the one trying to apologize to May about it.

Societal double-standard, which is a reason why in real-life men who are raped are often more traumatized than women. Imagine the outrage if the script called for a woman to apologize for being raped!

I think part of it is 'she's gorgeous, like hell you wouldn't have laid her if she'd let you'. Some random jerk forcing himself onto some random female is rape. A supermodel forcing herself on that same jerk is supposed to be the guy's dream come true.

[Eframepilot]

So I'm going to go ahead and classify Ward as dumb muscle. I'm trying to think of any scenario that would lead to him allowing someone he knows can mind control him with her voice (and maybe her touch if he's super lucky) to walk up to him and grab him by the arm. While he is pointing the worlds most stunningly effective tranquilliser gun at her. And demanding she surrender.

She was probably already affecting him. Also, he may not have had confidence that the tranq would work. Bullets don't work on Asgardians. He called for backup since he knew that he couldn't handle her alone.

So, Ward either likes Skye, Simmons, or if they're really pulling a left turn, Coulson or Fitz. Place your bets.

Well, Ward did seem jealous of May and Coulson's intimacy, and since he doesn't love May, that means...

Seriously, it's Skye.

I couldn't understand why he didn't shoot her with the ICE rounds right off the bat. Considering that regular bullets have so far appeared to just bounce off of Asgardians (or at least their clothing) it would have been perfectly acceptable that the ICE rounds wouldn't do anything to her either. Even if they hit her skin and did what they were supposed to maybe it takes more than 1 of those bullets to incapacitate an Asgardian? Instead the scene just made Ward look stupid. If he was supposed to be somewhat under her spell before she touched him then they didn't get that across in how the scene was done.

While he had the gun pointed on her, he had a hint of leverage to keep her at bay, but if he fired and it was ineffective, he'd have squat.

[Kojiro]

I think Ward's lack of firing was supposed to be due to her proximity but it could have easily been done better having her talk to ward from the rooftop. That at least would justify his hesitation in shooting and the crumbling of his resolve as she approached and still didn't shoot.

The real tactical blunder was sending Ward around back. Simmons would have been more useful back there (not that I'm suggesting using her) but Coulson has May at his disposal.

Rewatching the scene I actually asked myself where the bike keys came from. Ward sure didn't have them and I doubt Lorelei cared to memorise (if she's even aware of how the ignition works) which key was associated with which bike. Hot wired I suppose.

As to the whole female rapes male thing... yeah it's a double standard. If a girl was drugged and raped not only would she never have to apologise for it but retribution- like May slugging Ward in the face after knowing he was back to normal- would be utterly intolerable. But then I imagine there'd also be some one somewhere who would jump up and down if the premise of a show revolved around a villain who exploited a 'fundamental weakness inherent in all men'.

[Kojiro]

*I can't edit the above but that last line is supposed to be 'fundamental weakness inherent in all women'.

Thinking about it I believe Lorelei's power is of a similar nature to Loki's magic. Both of them seem to retain their powers- that is they can't be removed- despite Asgardian authorities having them in custody (Sif even says that death is the only way other than the device). Both of them were, when taken into custody given a sort of collar. Loki's looked more uncomfortable but the purpose was clearly to stop him speaking. I suspect that Lorelei's power isn't unique so much as it is a corruption of known secrets- like there's a prohibition on it due to obvious moral reasons.

Then again, maybe it is unique. Heimdall certainly seems to possess a unique gift I wouldn't even begin to try working out the mechanics of.

[Tsyroc]

While he had the gun pointed on her, he had a hint of leverage to keep her at bay, but if he fired and it was ineffective, he'd have squat.

Fair enough. I can see that as being logical tactical thinking. He probably should have tried a little bit to keep her from touching him but I think that is explained enough by the assumption that she was having at least some effect on him from a distance.

It might have been entertaining to see him try shooting her in the eye with the ICE rounds but that might be a bit too much for this show, and I'm thinking it would have most likely just ticked her off and ended up in Ward being dead instead of in Toy Boy mode.

[Grumman]

As to the whole female rapes male thing... yeah it's a double standard. If a girl was drugged and raped not only would she never have to apologise for it but retribution- like May slugging Ward in the face after knowing he was back to normal- would be utterly intolerable. But then I imagine there'd also be some one somewhere who would jump up and down if the premise of a show revolved around a villain who exploited a 'fundamental weakness inherent in all men'.

I have not seen the episode in question (due to it being cancelled here), but I think it could have been fine with only the first part. Ward did not need to apologise for it, but it makes sense that he would feel like he did. Having control of your own mind and body taken from you is likely to be a disconcerting experience at best, and that's going to cause your reaction to be a bit off.

Having May react by punching him is way out of line, if the extent of his "betrayal" was getting raped.

[Majin Gojira]

My own thought was that this was a rather flawed episode. It got better as it went on, but Act 2 (I think, the part where Ward gets zapped was just not well written or even sensibly plotted) was DEEPLY stupid to move it forward.

[Tsyroc]

My own thought was that this was a rather flawed episode. It got better as it went on, but Act 2 (I think, the part where Ward gets zapped was just not well written or even sensibly plotted) was DEEPLY stupid to move it forward.

I thought the one good thing that came out of Ward being zapped is that it showed what he was capable of. He had an effective plan and he did pretty well in his fight against May.

I think that in writing this episode the writers got too into having Ward take Lorelei to Vegas than making sure the story worked as well as it could.

[2000AD]

Regarding Ward apologising to May I got the feeling that it wasn't for having sex with Lorelei but for telling her he loved someone else, not May.

[Tsyroc]

Regarding Ward apologising to May I got the feeling that it wasn't for having sex with Lorelei but for telling her he loved someone else, not May.

I thought it was because he was on the verge of kicking her ass before the whammy wore off.

[Eleas]

I think part of it is 'she's gorgeous, like hell you wouldn't have laid her if she'd let you'. Some random jerk forcing himself onto some random female is rape. A supermodel forcing herself on that same jerk is supposed to be the guy's dream come true.

Whether she's a supermodel, a homo erectus, or a small, furred creature from Alpha Centauri is irrelevant. It is not an iota less rape because the perpetrator happened to meet some kind of arbitrary standard of beauty, nor would it be more okay because the victim "wasn't that hot." In fact, the argument in itself neatly encapsulates a good segment of rape culture.

As for the episode itself, it seemed a let-down from the preceding one. TAHITI was a tighter, more cohesive story and did a lot more for the story arc, even considering May's revelation by the end. Also, the gender stuff was not just insulting but tedious, which may actually be worse from the standpoint of entertainment.

[Batman]

I think part of it is 'she's gorgeous, like hell you wouldn't have laid her if she'd let you'. Some random jerk forcing himself onto some random female is rape. A supermodel forcing herself on that same jerk is supposed to be the guy's dream come true.

Whether she's a supermodel, a homo erectus, or a small, furred creature from Alpha Centauri is irrelevant. It is not an iota less rape because the perpetrator happened to meet some kind of arbitrary standard of beauty, nor would it be more okay because the victim "wasn't that hot." In fact, the argument in itself neatly encapsulates a good segment of rape culture.

That was sort of my point.

[Eleas]

Whether she's a supermodel, a homo erectus, or a small, furred creature from Alpha Centauri is irrelevant. It is not an iota less rape because the perpetrator happened to meet some kind of arbitrary standard of beauty, nor would it be more okay because the victim "wasn't that hot." In fact, the argument in itself neatly encapsulates a good segment of rape culture.

That was sort of my point.

Mm. Which is why I didn't attribute the point to your beliefs.

It's a bit sad though, because it's hardly the first time such sentiments arise on a Whedon show.

[Iroscato]

So, interesting developments this episode. I'm now fairly sure Centipede at least has links with HYDRA, if not directly serving under it - what with all the dirty business happening in SHIELD at the time of CA:TWS it wouldn't surprise me. Asuming she is the real face behind the Clairvoyent, I'm kinda dissappointed they didn't use an established character like The Leader, that would've been a neat twist as well as setting him up as a future enemy in the series.
Next week it looks as though the team is going rogue as SHIELD deals with the aftermath of TWS...

[JME2]

The Leader's still in SHIELD custory, if I remember the tie-in Avengers prelude comic correctly.

[JME2]

And speaking of HYDRA involvement, does anyone else now think they may have had some role in the Extremis conspiracy during Iron Man 3?

[The Romulan Republic]

So Ward just killed an innocent man?

[Tsyroc]

So Ward just killed an innocent man?

And it should be pretty certain that the person Ward has a thing for is Skye.


I also really liked the sort of x-ray video of Deathlock that Skye got off of one of Fitz' miniature flying drones.


It sure looked like they helped set up a whole bunch of stuff the remainder of the season.

[Majin Gojira]

I also really liked the sort of x-ray video of Deathlock that Skye got off of one of Fitz' miniature flying drones.

That was definitely a highlight of the episode. It really called out the original comic look of a Deathlock Unit with the faceplate and the such. All it needs now is a Hydra-tech Energy weapon and we're all set.

[Crazedwraith]

So we've just recently restarted in the series in UK. ~Up to episode 13? I think. Skye gets shot at the end and its surprisingly brutally done for a TV show but of course they're not going to kill just when they've advanced her plot line and she's the only one aside from Coulson who actually has a significant one.

[Grumman]

Good news and bad news: the series is showing again on Australian televison (Wednesdays @10 PM), but they skipped two episodes.