Think we will just change that title to Spoilers in about two weeks.
In the mean time, I got A Memory of the Light this morning when my Iphone informed me Audible had downloaded my pre-order and I've been listening all of about two minutes now. Figured we could use a separate thread for book discussions and a place to post as many fake spoilers as possible in time honored tradition. Spoiler
Turns out Rand gets reborn as a Optimums Prime, would not have called that one.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
The bookshop did not have my copy despite saying it will arrive today and they will SMS me.
I have already read spoilers from another site, so I am looking forward to reading the relevant passages. Apparently its a giant battle done well. Heck even the characters of the "good guys" who I dislike get clobbered or killed. No spoilers because I haven't told you who I dislike.
Hopefully I can get a copy by Thursday.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Where have these guys been all series, two adult humans who can have conversations with each other? And the more we here about Androl the most interesting he becomes. Apparently he's a cross between Marco Polo/Tedd Roosevelt/and Spartacus. This guy is great when Pevara(The Red sister) is asking him about why he kept moving and changing trades and that he can't be doing it just to experience new things, I mean come on you might want to know what it's like to jump of a cliff but you don't do it. To which he responds that yes he has in fact jumped off of cliffs, several of them into the sea because that's one of the Seafolk things to do to prove your man cred is to find a big cliff and jump off into the ocean. Every single conversation with him we find out some tiny little tidbit. Tom the Gleeman was pitched as being interesting as he is but 90% of the time the text says "And he told an interesting story" while Androl TELLS an interesting story, or the tiny scrap of one and we get a tiny glimpse into the most interesting man in the Westlands
Spoiler
The intro was long but it all tied together with Talmanes and the sickness, he starts bad gets worse, things get worse then everything gets better but he gets worse then we learn why walled city states died after the canon was introduced and then he faceplants end of the intro. But the single most interesting thing was the tiny little look at "The Town" the tiny little city in the shadow of Evil McBadland/Mount Doom
Still lots of reading to go
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Idiot goes off to try and assassinate Demandred by himself. Armed with super ter'angreal which makes him too fast for Demandred to hit directly with weaves. However Demandred's swordsmanship has improved since the age of Legends and he out fights Gawyn despite being slower. There is a scene where Gawyn mentions that its not fair because Demandred uses channelling to throw a rock at him. Demandred then replies along the lines of you tried to assassinate me from behind.
I am not sad to see Gawyn go. I hated him since he supported Elaida's coup and threaten to see Rand Dead in book six. If Jordan wanted to make people hate him, he did a good job.
Galad
Spoiler
Is given the foxhead medallion by Mat and manages to kill several channelers as the medallion makes him immune directly to the weaves. Tries to avenge Gawyn and attacks Demandred. The Forsaken mentions that he is better than his brother, but he still manages to beat the crap out of Galad. So far not dead, just wounded, and spoilers report he survives. Anyone who joins the Children of the light has earned my disdain, so there.
Lan
Spoiler
Attacks Demandred directly with the foxhead medallion from Galad. Lan notes that Demandred is the better swordsman, although there are some mitigating circumstances, like Lan being exhausted while Demandred is still reasonably fresh. The forsaken realises Lan is the best of those blademasters who attacked him, and asks who he is? Lan replies that he is the man that will kill him. At the end Demandred has an opening and wounds Lan, and gloats. Then Lan has the memorable line of saying that you didn't listen to me. I did not come here to win, I came here to kill you. Death is lighter than a feather." Lan then kills Demandred. Lan still lives but horribly wounded. I don't know if it was Sanderson or Jordan who wrote that scene, but it was fucking awesome.
Demandred
Spoiler
Interestingly he is consumed by his hatred of Lews Therin that he admits he doesn't even feel love for a hot chick, although he nearly does. Arms with a powerful Sa'angreal bonded to him so no one else can use it against him. Gets killed by Lan, because Lan is a badass.
Matzim Taim
Spoiler
Is a new Chosen and wields the true power better than Demandred can. Taim can travel with the true power, while Demandred can only use it to spy from the eyes of birds. However despite his ability he is arseraped by Demandred and his Sharran allies. They shield him from Saidin, bind him in air, while Demandred mixes spirit weaves from saidin with a bit from the True Power to shield him from the True power. Not only does shielding work differently, it allows him to drain Taim's power.
Is lent Demandred's Sa'angrel and goes to battle Egwene who has her own Sa'angreal. Taim creates so much balefire it threatens the Pattern. So Egwene creates a super weave which counters bale fire, and crystallises Taim which kind of kills him.
Egwene
Spoiler
After defeating Taim, Egwene shows her prowess as a suicide bomber, by drawing up more one of the one power than she can hold, and releases it to repair the pattern, and taking out the Sharran channellers. So despite being out numbered, the Aes Sedai prevail but IIRC at a cost of a third of their number.
Gateways are cool. Just like Fezes.
Spoiler
1. Used as a scrying device by opening a gateway over the battlefield. This is mentioned by Demandred as a new weave invented in this age.
2. This allows dragons (cannons) to fire while hidden in cave. They literally open a gateway to where they want to attack, fire and close the gateway with no method of retaliation. Its implied this was Mat's idea.
3. While Shadowspawn can't survive the gateways, they can still send weapons through it to their armies on the other side to help with logistics.
Sanderson has pretty much said he didn't create new weaves per se, but just extrapolated existing ones, and he did pretty much all these new ideas with gateways.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Rand uses Callandor and a combination of Saidar, Saidin, and the True Power to completely remake the Dark One's prison anew. He had the capability to kill him, but while he was effectively outside of Time battling with the Dark One, he could see how the Pattern would weave several potential futures (including three where the Dark One won). In the one where he successfully killed the Dark One forever, the world became an awful place because it was essentially him forcing the choice of Good on to people - like the opposite of Turning people that a circle of myrrdraal and channelers can do.
Honestly, just describing it doesn't do it justice. Rand's reaction to that future - and the others - is much better read than summarized. Sanderson does a good job with it.
The ending is interesting. He is somehow placed into Moridin's body, and the ending is him riding off with some possessions that his three lovers have given him (only they know that he has survived in a way, although Cadsuane suspects something - his actual body gets burned after the Last Battle). He's no longer a ta'veren, and he can't channel - but he has a pipe that he can light just by mentally visualizing that it is lit.
It's ends with a version of the opening paragraph of every Wheel of Time novel.
The ending (speculation): Spoiler
1. One theory I've heard is that the weakness in the Pattern caused by rampant balefire use, and which was patched over by Egwene with the Flame of Tar Valon weave before she died, will end up being the "thinness" in the Pattern through which the Dark One will be detected next time the Second Age rolls around. Her weave is expressly described as a healing "patch" over it, not a full re-make like what Rand did at Shayol Ghul.
2. Rand made some changes to the Dragon's Peace, which, if his favored future is any indication, manage to avoid the collapse and Seanchan conquest seen in Aviendha's vision. More than a century into the Fourth Age, the world is largely peaceful outside of some persistent conflict in what was Shara (the Aiel plus a coalition of rifle-wielding soldiers are trying to keep the peace there), and Emond's Field has become a Caemlyn-sized city with schools and people from all over the World. Perrin's great-granddaughter is the Mayor.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.” -Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." -Margaret Atwood
Finally on day 2 part two of the audiobook we get to the first Matt chapter. Which is a shame I had to wait till chapter 9 or so in the book to get back to the reason why I kept reading the Wheel of Time even when everything else was dross.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
This begs the question - how powerful is the Dark one really Spoiler
He tries to cut off the true source from Moridin once he figures out Moridin's body has been taken over, but is unsuccessful because he cannot cut off such a strong flow with Callandor acting to draw on more of the true source.
Rand with the power magnification of Callandor plus Nynaeve and Moraine linked can hold him in a barrier. Rand even toys with the idea of killing him while held, so Rand had plenty more strength than him.
This would suggest the Dark One's power in terms of raw energy might be around the level of a strong channeler armed with Callandor. Maybe two Callandor's if we are generous and assume Rand was sucking out half his power to use against him. A strong channeller can hold enough energy to destroy a farm (book 6 when Rand tries to guess how much Taim can hold). Moraine has stated that armed with Callandor you can destroy an entire city. Assuming an age of legends city it would most probably be bigger than a city in the age of prophecy, but lets assume close of a modern day city in our world. So the Dark One might have enough power of a nuke, maybe two.
Before someone says he can destroy the pattern, keep in mind Taim with that sceptre Sa'angreal most probably had enough power to destroy most of the pattern if Egwene didn't repair it. Taim estimated that the Sa'angreal was equivalent or maybe slightly stronger than Callandor. So I think that still puts the Dark One around that power level.
So the DO's power would be dwarfed by the power you can draw from the Chedon Kal or whatever they are called, and you would think if he is the whole of the true power, the true power must be dwarfed by Saidin and Saidar.
I must say, I was somewhat disappointed that he wasn't that much stronger. He does have some advantages of course in a straight up fight. He can taint the one power, he can disrupt channelling the one power, and the true power can do things the one power cannot do an equivalent- view through the eyes of a bird, destroy Cuendillar etc.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Well with the Chedon Kal, a channeler can hold ALL of Saidin or Saidar.
Really? I remember in book four Rand and Asmodean fought over the male one, with each one using half of the power. Rand gets the upper hand by using his an'greal to supplement the power he is drawing and makes a sword of the one power to defeat Asmodean. They certainly weren't drawing all of Saidin, or else Rand would not be able to draw more, yet alone prevent all the other male channellers in the world (ie the Sharrans) drawing on saidin.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Rand couldn't hold all of Saidin or Saidar at one time, but he and Nynaeve were able to channel it through a "filter" IIRC to rid Saidin of the Dark One's corruption.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.” -Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." -Margaret Atwood
So the DO's power would be dwarfed by the power you can draw from the Chedon Kal or whatever they are called, and you would think if he is the whole of the true power, the true power must be dwarfed by Saidin and Saidar.
I must say, I was somewhat disappointed that he wasn't that much stronger. He does have some advantages of course in a straight up fight. He can taint the one power, he can disrupt channelling the one power, and the true power can do things the one power cannot do an equivalent- view through the eyes of a bird, destroy Cuendillar etc.
Spoiler
Seems like you don't use the TP for sheer power. You use it to blindside the other guy, and they sort of lost that advantage when Rand got access and subsequently beat the corruption in TGS.
Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions had managed to temporarily seal the Dark One's prison back in the Age of Legends (by somehow "pressing" the seal against him, which allowed the Dark One to taint Saidin), so while he's powerful in terms of his influence, he's not unbeatable once he's been dragged into the Pattern (where he can apparently be killed).
As for the Choeden Kal, the Big White Book Encyclopedia mentions that the leader of the female half of the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends wanted to try and use them to put a barrier around Shayol Ghul until they could figure out what to do to decisively seal off the Bore.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.” -Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." -Margaret Atwood
"If brute force is not solving your problems, you are obviously not using enough"
-Common Imperial Guard saying
"Scripture also says 'Render unto Caesar what Caesar demands.' And right now, Caesar demands a building permit,"
-County Commisioner Mike Whitehead to Dr. Dino
"If brute force is not solving your problems, you are obviously not using enough"
-Common Imperial Guard saying
"Scripture also says 'Render unto Caesar what Caesar demands.' And right now, Caesar demands a building permit,"
-County Commisioner Mike Whitehead to Dr. Dino
Regarding the Asha'man saving the day at Cairhien: NOW YOU'RE THINKING WITH PORTALS. Jesus, why did it take them this long?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
Regarding the Asha'man saving the day at Cairhien: NOW YOU'RE THINKING WITH PORTALS. Jesus, why did it take them this long?
Spoiler
Agreed. I suppose there always has to be a first person to think of it.
I can sort of see why they were slow to come up with it - they're used to thinking in terms of using the One Power directly to battle, not using it indirectly. Androl just put it together to compensate for his weak talent and special ability to open extremely large portals.
It looks like Channeling survives into the Fourth Age. One of my pre-release speculations was that something Rand did would start the beginning of the end for Channeling, since Robert Jordan mentioned that there are Ages where nobody knows about the One Power (and presumably no one with the "spark" for Channeling is being born). Turns out I was wrong - the Fourth Age looks more like an eventual return of the Age of Legends, with more modern-looking architecture and near-universal peace outside of Shara.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.” -Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." -Margaret Atwood
Got three hours left before I'm done with WoT forever. So many things I wish had been used ten books ago. We finally get an Aes Sedi/Ashaman paring that's interesting in Androl and Pevara, we get an interesting soldier finally in Talmanes (Matt's second in the band of the red hand) and the peaks into dozens of charaters heads that tiny bit that makes them interesting now we could have used a long time ago. The problem with most Wheel of Time characters is how fundamentally fixed they are. Lots of characters have bad things happen to them but don't change a damn bit like a certain Daughter Heir then current Queen of Andor who has been hit by a clue bat so many times and refuses to take a single damn hint. Her incompetence has literally killed tens of thousands of people and she's regarding as being wise and clever despite being a massive idiot.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
CC wrote:Well with the Chedon Kal, a channeler can hold ALL of Saidin or Saidar.
I don't think so. In Winter's Heart, Rand set up a saidar conduit between saidin and Shadar Logoth. Then he pulled as much as he could through the Choeden Kal and directed it through the conduit. He didn't have to pull all of saidin through Shadar Logoth, he just pulled enough through that the taint started to slide off of saidin into Shadar Logoth. Tere were also other channelers using saidin and saidar while Rand and Nynaeve were drawing as much as they could through the Choeden Kal.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
