Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Moderator: Steve
- Enola Straight
- Jedi Knight
- Posts: 793
- Joined: 2002-12-04 11:01pm
- Location: Somers Point, NJ
Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Paul Atreides...Kwizatz-Haderach...Muad'Dib to the masses and Usul to the inner circle.
Has metaphysical abilities on par with a Jedi Master.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Atreides
Ozymandias...Adrian Veidt...member of the Watchmen and "Smartest Man in the World".
Can knock around fellow Watchmen...each with near-Batman level hand-to-hand combat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias_%28comics%29
Which would win?
Has metaphysical abilities on par with a Jedi Master.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Atreides
Ozymandias...Adrian Veidt...member of the Watchmen and "Smartest Man in the World".
Can knock around fellow Watchmen...each with near-Batman level hand-to-hand combat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias_%28comics%29
Which would win?
Masochist to Sadist: "Hurt me."
Sadist to Masochist: "No."
Sadist to Masochist: "No."
- Sarevok
- The Fearless One
- Posts: 10681
- Joined: 2002-12-24 07:29am
- Location: The Covenants last and final line of defense
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Paul wins ? He has superpowers + prescience. Other guy does not.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
- Batman
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 16351
- Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
- Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Adrian goes down, and goes down hard.The one and only reason I'm a threat to the superpowered members of our club is because they want me to. Batman is everybody's Plan B. Not so for Paul Atreides.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
- Terralthra
- Requiescat in Pace
- Posts: 4741
- Joined: 2007-10-05 09:55pm
- Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Hasn't Paul's prescience been shown to be useless in a fight? Consistently?
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Paul actually can't fight hand-to-hand, because he's used to fighting with shields which require slow stabbing movements, as opposed to quick ones.
Paul will sadly die, even if he is a Bene Gesserit witch.
Paul will sadly die, even if he is a Bene Gesserit witch.
Suffering from the diminishing marginal utility of wealth.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Ozymandias might be the "Smartest Man in the World", but Paul is a prescient human computer with the memories of a significant fraction of the human race.
Paul Muad'Dib introduces himself... and Ozymandias dies.Enola Straight wrote:Which would win?
Even in Paul's first unshielded fight, to the death, the question wasn't whether Jamis might actually win, only what took Paul so long to go ahead and kill him.ryacko wrote:Paul actually can't fight hand-to-hand, because he's used to fighting with shields which require slow stabbing movements, as opposed to quick ones.
Paul will sadly die, even if he is a Bene Gesserit witch.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
When Paul declares himself Duke to unite the Fremen he explicitly points out that there is not a single man there who could stand against him in single combat, Stilgar included. The Fremen are fully capable of besting Sardaukar, who in turn Baron Harkonnen considers could easily turn on his House troops during their joint attack on House Atreides and rout them even on the wrong side of 10-1 odds. By Dune Messiah, Paul's sister (and its implied Paul himself) has practiced against a training bot at levels that would kill other master swordsmen.ryacko wrote:Paul actually can't fight hand-to-hand, because he's used to fighting with shields which require slow stabbing movements, as opposed to quick ones.
Paul will sadly die, even if he is a Bene Gesserit witch.
At age 15 when he bested Jamis,
Lady Jessica wrote:And it came to Jessica that Paul had been trained in prana and bindu, the nerve and the fiber -- that he had been taught fighting in a deadly school, his teachers men like Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck, men who were legends in their own lifetimes. The boy knew the devious ways of the Bene Gesserit and he looked supple and confident.
Paul Muad'Dib is not just a trained hand-to-hand combatant, but an extremely deadly one.
"If you're caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you're going to jail. Evidently, if you launder nearly $1 billion for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night." Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)
The Noldor are the Wise, and the Golden, the Valiant, the Sword-elves, the Elves of the Earth, the Foes of Melkor, the Skilled of Hand, the Jewel-wrights, the Companions of Men, the Followers of Finwë.
The Noldor are the Wise, and the Golden, the Valiant, the Sword-elves, the Elves of the Earth, the Foes of Melkor, the Skilled of Hand, the Jewel-wrights, the Companions of Men, the Followers of Finwë.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Yeah. When he was 15. Not when he was emperor. When he killed a person who'd been fighting for years.ryacko wrote:Paul actually can't fight hand-to-hand, because he's used to fighting with shields which require slow stabbing movements, as opposed to quick ones.
Paul will sadly die, even if he is a Bene Gesserit witch.
Also, Paul could likely use Voice on Ozzy to make him kill himself.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Paul is not the deadliest person in a hand-to-hand fight. That honour belongs to Count Fenrig, who, if not for a sudden change of heart, would have killed him on the spot.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
After Paul had fought a large battle *and* just finished a duel against his cousin.Thanas wrote:Paul is not the deadliest person in a hand-to-hand fight. That honour belongs to Count Fenrig, who, if not for a sudden change of heart, would have killed him on the spot.
If he was fresh? Might have been different.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
That has no basis really. Paul himself acknowledges that he would lose against him. There is no guarantee the genocidal maniac would have won even if he had been fresh.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Never said there was a guarantee the father of the savior of the human race would have won, just that there were extenuating circumstances at the time.Thanas wrote:That has no basis really. Paul himself acknowledges that he would lose against him. There is no guarantee the genocidal maniac would have won even if he had been fresh.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
well, if the father of the great enslaver gets to claim that, so does everybody he defeated in battle. I tell you, Feyd-Rautha was under stress the whole time too.AMT wrote:Never said there was a guarantee the father of the savior of the human race would have won, just that there were extenuating circumstances at the time.
Pointless.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Well of course Feyd was under stress. He was about to fight the liberator of the universe!Thanas wrote:well, if the father of the great enslaver gets to claim that, so does everybody he defeated in battle. I tell you, Feyd-Rautha was under stress the whole time too.AMT wrote:Never said there was a guarantee the father of the savior of the human race would have won, just that there were extenuating circumstances at the time.
Pointless.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
I am sure the jihad made people feel real liberated. No problem with oppression when you are dead after all.
Hooray for the Great Genocider.
Hooray for the Great Genocider.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
60 billion died so countless trillions could live.Thanas wrote:I am sure the jihad made people feel real liberated. No problem with oppression when you are dead after all.
Hooray for the Great Genocider.
Not everyone can be strong enough to make those kind of choices, but then again not everyone can be the savior of the race.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Why are you bringing this up here, of all places? Ozymandias pulled the same stunt, killing millions to set humanity on what he considered the least bad path.Thanas wrote:I am sure the jihad made people feel real liberated. No problem with oppression when you are dead after all.
Hooray for the Great Genocider.
- Themightytom
- Sith Devotee
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: 2007-12-22 11:11am
- Location: United States
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Wasn't Fenring an almost Kwizatch haderach? He would still be on a different level than Ozymandias..Thanas wrote:Paul is not the deadliest person in a hand-to-hand fight. That honour belongs to Count Fenrig, who, if not for a sudden change of heart, would have killed him on the spot.
oh hell the spelling of these names is ridiculous I'm out
"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon
"ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Just a friendly contest between me and AMT to see who can pull up the more extreme adjective (either positive or negative) for the Ultimate Tyrant.Grumman wrote:Why are you bringing this up here, of all places?Thanas wrote:I am sure the jihad made people feel real liberated. No problem with oppression when you are dead after all.
Hooray for the Great Genocider.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Don't you mean the Great Liberator?Thanas wrote:Just a friendly contest between me and AMT to see who can pull up the more extreme adjective (either positive or negative) for the Ultimate Tyrant.Grumman wrote:Why are you bringing this up here, of all places?Thanas wrote:I am sure the jihad made people feel real liberated. No problem with oppression when you are dead after all.
Hooray for the Great Genocider.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Evidently you're both talking about Ozymandias.AMT wrote:Don't you mean the Great Liberator?Thanas wrote:Just a friendly contest between me and AMT to see who can pull up the more extreme adjective (either positive or negative) for the Ultimate Tyrant.Grumman wrote: Why are you bringing this up here, of all places?
Come to think about it...
Wouldn't Paul have Ozymandias work as his under-secretary?
Suffering from the diminishing marginal utility of wealth.
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
Oh sure, if you meant the Great Adulterer. Paul Atreides has no family values. He is wrong for the country, and wrong for the galaxy.AMT wrote:Don't you mean the Great Liberator?Thanas wrote:Just a friendly contest between me and AMT to see who can pull up the more extreme adjective (either positive or negative) for the Ultimate Tyrant.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
...damnit. You win.Thanas wrote:Oh sure, if you meant the Great Adulterer. Paul Atreides has no family values. He is wrong for the country, and wrong for the galaxy.AMT wrote:Don't you mean the Great Liberator?Thanas wrote:Just a friendly contest between me and AMT to see who can pull up the more extreme adjective (either positive or negative) for the Ultimate Tyrant.
*bows*
- Enola Straight
- Jedi Knight
- Posts: 793
- Joined: 2002-12-04 11:01pm
- Location: Somers Point, NJ
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
HERES the spirited thread from another board.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/sh ... highlight=
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/sh ... highlight=
Masochist to Sadist: "Hurt me."
Sadist to Masochist: "No."
Sadist to Masochist: "No."
-
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 30165
- Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm
Re: Paul Atreides vs Ozymandias
This sounds... kind of stupid, really. The two characters come from such totally different settings that they're not really comparable.
Some versus are interesting because you're comparing two broadly similar beings. Say, Han Solo versus Malcolm Reynolds- they're not that different in terms of their character and abilities. Relative to their own settings, which have very different technology, they have similar resources, too.
Or you might have a matchup that's interesting because it pits asymmetric skills against each other.
But here, you're just taking "the world's smartest man" and throwing him against someone who takes that peak of physical perfection thing so far that he becomes a god. It just doesn't make a lot of sense unless you're trying to jump up and down and go "lol Paul would totally pwn Ozy lololol" or something vapid like that.
Some versus are interesting because you're comparing two broadly similar beings. Say, Han Solo versus Malcolm Reynolds- they're not that different in terms of their character and abilities. Relative to their own settings, which have very different technology, they have similar resources, too.
Or you might have a matchup that's interesting because it pits asymmetric skills against each other.
But here, you're just taking "the world's smartest man" and throwing him against someone who takes that peak of physical perfection thing so far that he becomes a god. It just doesn't make a lot of sense unless you're trying to jump up and down and go "lol Paul would totally pwn Ozy lololol" or something vapid like that.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov