The next season is nothing but building up the Dragon queen of the west the problem with Season 2 is the House of the Undying occurred in Episode 10 rather than episode 7, there was more material for her actually leaving on her ship in Episode 10.

At the end of the book she runs into messengers from Magister IIyrio who've come to take her back to Westeros along with three good ships to carry her people, instead she takes the ships and the messengers and makes for another destination so she can meet the Magister with an army at her back instead of as a supplicant. But they decided to end the Season where they did because I assume next Season they are going to be showing all of this meaning this Season she largely went to waste. I assume because of what happens in book 4/5 where she does dumb thing after dumb thing, I'm guessing lots of that is going to be cut.

I don't mind the House of the Undying dropping a lot of the book stuff, since, for example, the wolf-king would look incredibly obvious on television, and Rhaegar talking to Elia probably wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

However, if it had been my choice, I think the wisest thing would have been to have Daenerys enter the House of the Undying in episode 6, with about the same 'going to the tower' scene we had in this episode, but like, say that as soon as she found her dragons were stolen, the Warlock said 'haha we took them they're in our magic tower toodles' so she could say 'aight' and get on it.

Then spend all of her time in episodes 7 and 8 that was spent having her wander around an ill-defined political scene no one cared about whining about MAH DRAGONS to instead wander around looking at all kinds of weird illusions. It would be more interesting, and instead of making her very anemic storyline look all the more drawn-out and limp, provide something different each week while also giving the implication of some strange time warp in the tower. Then when she frees the dragons and gets out you could either have Jorah be like 'you were only in there for a few hours khaleesi woahohoh' or have him sitting there all bearded like he's been waiting there for weeks to emphasize Jorah's eterna-loyal puppy-bear nature.

As for what she sees while in the House, I'd be happy with stuff from the book, but also just any kind of phantasmagorical meetings would do fine. Maybe even put her temptations to power and love with the throne and Drogo in episode 7, then bring back Hary Lloyd so she can encounter Viserys in episode 8, then in episode 10 have her meet Rhaegar and/or Aerys in some way, so even if it's still confusing for viewers who these people are they can still fill in by apples to apples that she's going back through time meeting the dead men who have been her 'family'. That would be cool. I dunno, I'm a total monday night quarterback when it comes to this show.

Interesting idea, Amoeba. What I don't like is she feels a bit like a 19th century heroine, someone the story is happening around, not someone who is shaping events. She's shooting the rapids in a barrel and only luck will save her when it should feel more like she's in a kayak, a dangerous situation but her own efforts will see her emerge victorious.

Huh?
What is that reference?
Couldn't find anything useful googling.

refers to sunday night football and the proper term is Monday Morning Quarterback, someone who criticizes a football team's proformace the following morning at work, with perfect 20/20 hindsight.

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The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin

Jon's actions make little and less sense. There's no way that Ygritte and the wildlings should have freed him for killing Halfhand, Ygritte knows that he's not a traitor. It's not like it was in the books, he didn't yield and he killed Halfhand in a battle that Qhorin started.

Dany is just...meh. She's displaying the same ridiculous propensity of bible "justice" but apart from that she does nothing worthwhile.

Shae...ugh. The show just glosses over how dysfunctional their relationship is supposed to be in order to have some more true wove bullshit. Hopefully they don't go through with her arc as written because it seems ridiculously unplausible now, just like her romance to Tyrion, which just isn't believable.

The season wasn't bad. Not as good as the first one, but this episode...ugh.

Agree. It's not much of a test of his willingness to leave the Watch behind if he only has to kill the Halfhand in self-defense. It was also fitting with the whole "duty before honor" attitude that Qhorin was trying to impress on Jon in the book before his death.



I think she learned a lesson about the willingness of others to use her for their own political purposes, as well as the potential risks to her dragons. It ends with her finally taking some degree of active control over her fate.

It was a hard adaptation, though. Dany just doesn't have much to do in A Clash of Kings, and the whole situation in Qarth has a strange, almost otherworldly vibe to it.



Are you certain that that's what they're intending? I think it's possible that her rather dispassionate reactions to Tyrion's affections are proof that she's just playing along with the paid-for fantasy girlfriend role - he shows much more emotion. I'll admit that the whole "let's flee to Pentos" thing was annoying (if also foreshadowing), but that's also because Shae's realizing that her position in King's Landing is precarious (particularly after Cersei's suspicious inquiries).

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"You can't hammer tin into iron, no matter how hard you beat it, but that doesn't mean that tin is worthless."
-Jon Snow, A Game of Thrones

"I prefer my history dead. The dead sort is written in ink, the living in blood."
-Rodrik Greyjoy, A Song of Ice and Fire

I might have missed them or just forgotten, but I think that that's the best thing about Halfhand (he's pretty much the one character I love unconditionally) and I don't think I heard it in the series.I think it's the lesson that Jon should have learned, and he would be one of the few to do so, yet it's kinda diluted.

It's not just that he didn't choose to kill Halfhand at the urging of the wildlings. It's that it shouldn't have worked. Ygritte is right there, she was with him the whole time, he was no traitor and she knew it.

quote]

I think she learned a lesson about the willingness of others to use her for their own political purposes, as well as the potential risks to her dragons. It ends with her finally taking some degree of active control over her fate.

It was a hard adaptation, though. Dany just doesn't have much to do in A Clash of Kings, and the whole situation in Qarth has a strange, almost otherworldly vibe to it. [/quote]

I'm surprised by this honestly. I personally never felt it when reading it but as I watched Dany I came to understand some of the complaints about her and Qarth. Nothing really happens, the House of the Undying was the best part of that sequence, and they couldn't show it.

[/quote]

Hm, I just assumed that the actor didn't have good range in that area. I've seen her be bitchy and I've seen her be sunny-bright but not much else honestly.

That is one way they can salvage the arc. Tyrion is being selfish here, so I'll not be surprised if his refusal to leave comes back to bite him in the ass. They have perhaps two seasons to build up to it so it makes sense. As it stands now I'm not sure I buy it, but they can cram a lot in 20 episodes.

Unknown. She didn't have all that many to begin with, so what we see onscreen may well be all that she has.

My impression was that there was no wealth. He claimed that he had a vault full of riches and people believed him. After all, power resides where men believe it resides, that was the theme of the season


I imagine they didn't think they could breathe fire quite so soon.


In what way is Stannis a pirate?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

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My Fundie Guide The World Has Ended.....Life Goes On

Davos who was a pirate turned Knight... well he was a smuggler not a Pirate but he does have Sallador San who is a Pirate but not a Knight.

Stannis's right hand man strikes me as someone with the bearing of a Knight/Honorable person despite his successful smuggling career and smuggling is I think if I recall an act of piracy depending on the laws back then in our world. So it's why I call him Pirate-Knight It's to draw a funny comparison between the two men because their roles are similar which I certain is more than coincidence.

They dropped the ball on that one because Qhorin is a nobody to non book readers. They didn't build him up and didn't stress how big a deal breaking their vows are. They should of had that conversation after one of Qhorin's fake fights with Jon, and Jon being hesitant to go through with his plan stating what about the vows etc etc. They should have made Rattleshirt and the wildlings more cautious and fearful around him.

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Phil Ken Sebben: Birdman, this is Dvd, our new efficiency expert.
Harvey Birdman: Interesting name. Norweg...?
Dvd: Was "David". I eliminated the vowels to save time.
Phil Ken Sebben: Brllnt!

It felt like there was a ton of slack in the Jon bits this season, at least what was presented on-screen, but from what I'm hearing about the books, there wouldn't have been enough time to justify everything.

I'm trying to keep myself relatively spoiler-free about what happens after what's aired, only spoiling myself on finding out more of what happens in the book after a given episode airs. I don't know what he's supposed to be doing up in the north but at least what we've seen of it has fallen short of the promise of the unknown last season left us with.

I just watched the first two seasons again, and a few questions and thoughts popped into my head:

1) Tyrion's dagger: I noticed the nasty look Tyrion gave Littlefinger at the council meeting. It's obvious that Tyrion knows that Littlefinger told Catelyn Stark that the dagger was his. But then, nothing. I hope Tyrion sticks it to that pimp, who is #1 on my list of characters I most want to see die horribly.

On the subject of the dagger, I'm pretty sure Joffrey and/or Cersei had the weapon planted on the assassin who tried to kill Bran, but failed thanks to dire wolf puppy-fu. Tyrion bitch-slapped Joffrey repeatedly over the little sadist's refusal to offer condolences to Bran's parents, and Cersei is scared shitless that Bran might recover, tell what he saw and her head would be on a stick next to Dubya's. Speaking of Bran's wolf, I love how he growled at Theon -who is #4 on my list.

2) Cersei is great at swinging between ice queen and sobbing, emotional parent, and this kinda gives me a hint about Jon Snow's real backstory. Right before Blackwater, she's sobbing to Tyrion about what a monster she pushed out of her womb (Malissandre's evil kid only killed one person -and that fucking twat Renly deserved it!), but later she's abducting and beating up on poor Ros and threatening to kill her before she has a chance to show her fabulous tits again. On top of that, her guard tries to kill Tyrion in the middle of the battle. So her M.O. is to try to be all sympathetic before she strikes.

Now, after Bran is pushed out the window, but before Creepy Fucker tries to stab him, Cersei has a talk with Catelyn about the death of her first son, who died as an infant. She describes the baby as having Robert's black hair. Given that Cersei and Jaime have this weird fixation on wanting their incest babies on the throne, and Cersei (like Hera) wants to kill off her horndog husband's other offspring, is it a stretch to think that Cersei might have killed her own kid conceived with Robert?

So my theory is that black-haired Jon Snow is Robert's bastard with Ned's sister (the one Robert goes on and on about), and that somehow Robert got her goodies (sorry, I just watched Your Highness again) before he had a chance to marry her. Ned can't let Robert know because the Lannisters (serial child-killers) would kill the offspring of Robert and Ned's sister if they ever found out. The Lannisters might have been the ones who killed Lyanna when they were killing every Targaryan they could find. Indiscriminate murder is their calling card, after all.

In this case, Ned isn't quite as much of a putz as I thought, since he's willing to risk his own rank, honor and even his life to avoid the murder of a child. He's still a fucking dumbass, though.

3) Why doesn't Stannis crank out more demon babies? One for Loras, one for each of the main Lannisters. Not only is this tactic more effective than nighttime amphibious assaults, but it means he gets to boink Carice Van Houten on a regular basis:




4)

It's obvious from the moment Jon shows misgiving about killing Ygritte that he's smitten by her, and her constant teasing and flirting with him wasn't just a ruse to get him to let his guard down. Clearly she likes him -so much so that my girlfriend was nonplussed that he didn't try to kiss her, and wondered if Jon was supposed to be gay. The consensus among female viewers is that maybe Ygritte could fuck some of the boring out of Jon Snow. They might be on to something, since he showed a glimmer of a sense of humor when Ygritte was jokingly offering him some pussy and he asked if she wanted to do it in the mud right there.

5) Catelyn's scheme looks dumber and dumber. What does she think is going to happen if Brienne should make it to King's Landing and drop off Jaime? The Lannisters will just let Brienne go and take Sansa back with her? Sansa still has value even though Joffrey isn't going to marry her. If the Lannisters and Tyrells should somehow get their act together and kill Robb and Catelyn, that makes Sansa the next in line to inherit Winterfell (or what's left after Theon's men looted and burned the place). She's been rather compliant for the Lannisters and using her as a puppet in the North would make things easier.

6) Why doesn't Danerys just take over Qarth? All the leaders are dead and empty vault or no empty vault, she and her followers can sack Doxos' belongings, as well as those of the rest of the Qarth Chamber of Commerce. Besides, Qarth seems like a much better place to live than Westeros, with its long winters. When her dragons grow big enough, then she can administer an ass-kicking to her enemies in Westeros.

It's explained in the books: the shadowbabies drain life force from their father. Stannis has to do it twice there, and is described as looking like he aged a decade.



This sequence of events plays out a lot more sensically in the novel, but the long and short of it is that Catelyn was hoping for Tyrion to honor the trade whatever Joffrey or Cersei might have wanted.

Plus she's going crazy from losing Bran and Rickon.

Short version: She really is thick
Long Version:

The series manages to make the decision look even dumber than it was in the books, which is a fairly good achievement. In the series, all she has is the words of Littlefinger - the man who betrayed her husband and ensured his death. At least in the books there is some reasoning behind it, with her only letting him go after she gets the news of Bran and Rickon dying at Winterfell, believing that she is losing all her children and she needs to get them back - not exactly the best reason, but better her doing it as a mother that is mad with grief, rather than blindly trusting their word and calmly letting the Kingslayer go.

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“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that the English language is as pure as a crib-house whore. It not only borrows words from other languages; it has on occasion chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary. “
- James Nicoll

That's the problem with going from a long form to short form, you lose nuance. But is there any way to make her not look like an idiot without completely changing the story?

Move the bit where she frees Jaime to next season, after she gets word that Rickon and Bran are dead?

I don't think either version makes Mrs Stark look like anything other than a desperate fool. The TV version does make some sense though. It was obvious that Jaime was going to be lynched before Robb got back, and if that happens (as far as Catelyn knows) Sansa and Arya are dead.

I'm really trying to understand this, but why did Renly deserve it? Because he was going to ally with the Starks, because he didn't want Joffrey the little shit or Stannis the uncompromising bloodthirsty and hypocrite to rule?

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed,or numbered. I am a free man. My life is my own" Number 6
The Prisoner

By refusing to support his brother's right to the crown, not only did Renly cause Ned Stark to get his head cut off, but he announced his intention to kill Stannis too. He couldn't leave an older brother with a better claim alive and everyone knew it.

Stannis gave Renly every opportunity to join him -including naming him as next in line- but Renly got it into his head (egged on by Loras) that he should be king and fuck over his own brother. Imagine if Renly wasn't a complete twat out to usurp the crown from Stannis:

He and Ned could have fled to Dragonstone and combined they would have crushed Tywin, Joffrey and the other Lannisters. Or, if Renly really did have a hundred or so men available for a palace coup on his own behalf, he could have snuffed out Joffrey, Cersei and The Pimp all at once and left only Tywin to deal with. Any war with him would have been over quickly and just in time to face the horde of zombies from north of the wall. But it wasn't to be because Renly was a backstabbing prick.

So fuck Renly.

I hate Cersei most of all. She is just the most colossally incompetent ruler of all time. I know many say that Joffrey is King but it is she who's making all the big decisions, and oh what decisions she's made. She placed her illegitimate and blatantly psychotic son on the throne. Not only are his early decisions to the complete detriment of the Lannister family in every way, but with his new found power he is even in the position to threaten his mother. He killed Ned Stark and as Tyrion pointed out, she did nothing to stop this. She dismisses Robb Stark's sweeping successes on the battlefield when he's been doing so much damage to the Lannisters that even Tywin is concerned. She fires Barristan Selmy for no reason other than to surround herself with more members of her family so she has to deal with even fewer challenges to her rule. Why? Because fuck everyone else that's why. She spies on the entire Small Council, and places bullshit puppets and informants like Pycell on the council. Totally undermining the office and yet again, removing any challenge and question to her marvelously irresponsible rule.

But here's the thing, if you're going to be a tyrant, at least be good at controlling people. Cersei's decisions about the city's refugee crisis leads to rioting. The riots place a strain on the already overwhelmed King's Gaurd who must now be prepared to fight Stannis, Robb, and their own fucking city. Her plans to fight Stannis Baratheon are non-existent. She knows nothing about him or the city and places total reliance on the wildfire chemical. Even Tyrion, who was faaaaar better prepared for the battle didn't beat Stannis single handedly with it. If her and Joffrey had been the only ones handling the battle by morning King's Landing would have been covered in Flaming Stag Flags. By antagonizing the Small Council with her paranoid delusional bullshit, Cersei is in fact in a constant state of war with her own staff, Varys, Littlefinger, and Tyrion. So instead of ruling, she has to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to remain a step ahead of people she's supposed to working with. When that fails her, she just flat out threatens them openly. Yeah, that's a *great* way to ensure people's loyalty and hard work.

Bad news? A letter of dire warning? Tear that shit up of course! Poor wittle Cersei isn't having a good day and if you try to bring a serious concern to her (ignorance of which would most likely hurt her as well) she basically just plugs her fingers in her ears and screams "LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

I love it, she's the prime example of everything you don't do in a position of power. Regardless of morals.

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Best care anywhere.

What is Project Zohar?

Fucking A.



The frustrating thing about the show so far is that it didn't cover, in one of the last chapters of Ned's POV in AGOT (he's executed from Arya's POV) the part where he has a flashback/ dream that's very instructive on this point. Who Jon's mother really is has yet to be revealed, but yours is 50% of the overwhelmingly popular fan theory



You know that's one thing about all dramas that frustrate me - you know when you know a good reason why a character did something, it clearly is at least one of the reasons they had in mind, and yet they just decide, when called on that decision, not to defend their fucking actions? That's Catelyn when Robb berates her for freeing the Kingslayer. Pisses me off no end - she should've just said that was the reason.

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I suspect Renly didn't think it through enough to realize that.



Ned wasn't likely to flee regardless. Remember, he thought he had the upper hand, and he wanted to give Cersei a chance to escape.