Legend of Korra "Republic City + Leaf in the Wind" Talkback

[Steve]

Since I didn't see a thread for it, and I figure people who didn't catch the online sneak peek a few weeks ago saw it today, I figured I'd start a Talkback thread in the finest tradition of SDN's Fantasy forum.

I'll post my thoughts and in depth review later. Suffice to say I loved it.

[Batman]

The visual style is virtually if at all indistinguishable from AtlA, the music follows the same themes, the world as presented is the same as the AtLA one where it should be and NOT the same where it shouldn't. Apparently either Appa is not the last Sky Bison or they reproduce asexually, and I'm looking forward to them integrating the Bending tournaments into a society with a very active anti-bender movement.
As far as I'm concerned, quality-wise this is AtlA season four so far.

[Mr Bean]

The visual style is virtually if at all indistinguishable from AtlA,

See I have to disagree with you here a touch, while the art style is identical the animation style has been greatly improved and smoothed out. You can smell the extra budget and the much better CGI with the intro of the Metal-bending Spidercops. Even season 4 AtlA had very obvious CGI because of how much it poped out of the scene anytime we saw the fire bending tanks. But yes this is season four in art style but this almost feels like a totally different animation studio with how fluid EVERYTHING is.

[LadyTevar]

LOVED IT!!! Caught the premiere tonight, and yeah it lives up to the hype so far.


I think the White Lotus did Korra a disservice by locking her up 'for protection'. Obviously the world has changed majorly since Aang's youth. Republic City is absolutely HUGE, as well as thoroughly 1940s Steampunk New York, complete with Harbour Statue and skyscraper skyline. I adored it. Korra's "Fresh off the IceFloe" wonder at the town is a good contrast, especially with the Interview/Introduction to the City.
BTW: Lin BeiFong looks like she'll be a great "hardass" character, ad it will be interesting to see how she differs from Toph. Tenzin, well, he's too stiff in RC, even to his mother, which I find sad.
Katara was still beautiful, and totally believable as Korra's mentor. The love she shows for Aang's successor is obvious. Nice touch: The Story of Zuko's mother once again left a mystery. So far Kya and Bumi, Tenzin's siblings, are also a mystery


Korra's troubles with AirBending are very understandable, and amusingly shown. She is far too aggressive to learn passively, as it seems Tenzin was taught and is teaching. Once I saw where the plot was going with Pro-Bending, I knew that would trigger her understanding of Airbending evasion. It may take a while longer for actual Bending, but its' a start. Tenzin's little "woohoo!" as the FireFerrets win is a good sign that he's not as straight-laced as the first episode.

Pro-Bending itself is a 'simple' but very interesting game. The discs used by the Earthbenders are obviously fed from the bottom so they have a steady supply, while the water doubles as a safety feature. I have to wonder how many years its been since this sport began, as "Pro" seems to imply there are/were amateur events prior to this. One has to wonder how Air Bending would fit in, once there are more of them, but I think any ProBender would benefit from training in AirBending evasive techniques. Either way, its' obviously THE GAME of the city, and probably getting some notice outside the region.


Finally: MAKO. A Firebender. And a tribute to Mako, voice of Iroh up until his death.

[Batman]

The visual style is virtually if at all indistinguishable from AtlA,

See I have to disagree with you here a touch, while the art style is identical the animation style has been greatly improved and smoothed out.

I'll take your word for it. Even if I'm wrong, that's a positive thing.

You can smell the extra budget and the much better CGI with the intro of the Metal-bending Spidercops. Even season 4 AtlA had very obvious CGI because of how much it poped out of the scene anytime we saw the fire bending tanks.

Um-AtlA didn't have a season 4.

[Mr Bean]

Um-AtlA didn't have a season 4.

Excuse me season 3, watch something like The Day of Black Sun and watch the tanks and benders going at it and then watch the first two fights in Legend of Korra in her fire bending training or fighting the thugs. Watch her air bending training in episode 2 when the daughter goes first and moves through the spinners effortlessly. Even if the art is the same the animation has been greatly improved. Many more key-frames much smoother. To my eye it's the kind of jump from something like Captain Planet to Batman the Animated Series. You can see Korra moving even when's she's standing still.

Watch a live action show with a great cast and see how much the actors move around even in a talky scene. Then watch AtlA from Season 1 or Season 2 for a talky scene and you see people pretty much static unless they are saying something. Now watch Legend of Korra and you can see the background characters moving around, the scene in the crowed if you want you can slow it down and see members of the crowed blinking. That might not seem like much but for those who watch enough animation the simple fact they took the time to do that for a 3 second shot indicates a massive jump in the animation quality.

[JME2]

I loved it. This was worth the wait and I'm glad that there are still more stories to be told in the Bender-verse.

I've got a feeling I might end up liking this more than the original show due to the new elements: the 1920's atmosphere, even more steam-punk, a villainous secret society and triads, etc.

The continuity nods were great; I loved seeing Kyoshi and Roku in the opening credits. The Zuko's mother bit had me laughing my ass off. Gotta hand it to the creators to poke fun at themselves and the fandom again.

The Lin Beinfong/Korra dynamic reminds me of the strained relationship between Commissioner Barbara Gordon and Terry 'Batman 2' McGinnis in Batman Beyond. I'm very curious to see how Lin became such a hardass with someone like Toph as her mother.

If the animation was great on the first series, it's absolutely gorgeous here. These are just the first 2 episodes and it's already on par with what we saw in "Sozin's Comet".

Finally, I'm glad that Korra's not a carbon clone of Aang -- and while Mako and Bolin are seemingly Zuko/Sokka 2.0, I hope their development makes them different enough. If anything, Korra's character bears many similarities to Kuruk, of going with the flow.

While I'm glad that Korra has her own animal mount, I couldn't help snickering anytime I heard the name Naga. Anyone who's seen the Japanese anime The Slayers - or rather, the movies -- will understand why.

It's also neat that unlike Aang, she hasn't embraced the spiritual side of the Avatar. It was such a defining part of Aang's character and I think her development on that path will differentiate her from her predecessor more than anything else.

It gives me hope that the Spirit World hasn't been forgotten in this new timeframe -- and that if Korra's venturing into it, a certain Face-Stealer might pop up to menace another incarnation of the Avatar. After all, Koh's one of the few characters from the original series who could make a legitimate appearance.

I would also be very sur[rised if Korra doesn't interact with Kuruk's spirit at some point. Kuruk was the most recent Avatar to hail from the Water Tribe after all. While Aang is her immediate predecessor, Korra may feel a greater connection to this particular past life. She may also try to see how Kuruk's Water Tribe viewpoint reconciles with her training, much as Aang tried to do with Avatar Yangchen in "Sozin's Comet".

[Steve]

Alright, fresh from a rewatching of it this morning, time for me to get all pretentious and analytical.

First off.... I love Korra. She is a fun character to watch and has a lot of potential for development as the series progresses. As I stated in the other thread, I think one of the important aspects of her character is that she has almost nothing in common with Aang, which heavily reinforces the individuality of each Avatar and makes them each something special. She's an aggressive, direct, forceful personality. Hearing her shriek "I'm the Avatar and you've got to deal with it!" as a four year old to the stuffy White Lotus officials was both hilarious and insightful to her core being. And she loves fighting, too. In the Firebending trial she was there to win, not just pass. Her argument to Tenzin on why she should be in Pro Bending amounted to learning "modern fighting styles", not stuffy old techniques that didn't apply in the modern world. Because of her personality, she's easily taken to the first three elements off her training cycle, even the diametrically opposed elements of Water and Fire.

But not Air.

And this is good. This gives us a chance to see how Airbending is taught, which the prior show barely touched upon for obvious reasons; furthermore, giving her such a diametrically opposed personality to Aang and making Airbending her big block means it'll provide for the all-important character development.

That Pro Bending is the "perfect teaching tool" for Korra to learn Airbending isn't shocking. Again, she's aggressive, forceful, competitive. Normal Airbending training is the exact opposite, emphasizing the spiritual basis of the art, passivity and flexibility. It doesn't mesh with her personality at all. Toph had to adjust herself to get Aang to grip Earthbending. All in all, I'm really curious as to where they're going to take this storyline with Korra, and the when and how she learns the spiritual side of being the Avatar.

And, I guess it also doesn't hurt that Korra's got a high kick that would make Chuck Norris nod in approval. As that waterbending thug found out...

Before I get back to the triad, let's move on to Tenzin. As Tev noted, he's stiff, formal, restrained. Nothing like his father at all. Again, I like this; it makes him something other than a non-Avatar Older Aang. That said, he clearly does have emotional feelings, his protectiveness of his family especially. A part of me wonders how much of his seriousness has come from his learning, at an early age, that he was the future of Airbending, his father's sole hope to see the Air Nomad ways passed on. That if he faltered, if he failed, Airbending would disappear from the world and permanently wreck the balance of the elements. Now combine this crushing burden with trying to protect his father's legacy as Republic City begins to crack under the weight of factionalism... and it's no wonder that the headstrong Korra quickly pushes him to the limits of his patience. The Tenzin-Korra teacher-student relationship is, I feel, going to be the most important one of the series.

And now, the White Lotus. I think Iroh and King Bumi would have probably had words with the fellow in charge of Korra's incarcerat.... protection. The White Lotus is not meant to be custodians of the Avatar, they're meant to encourage philosophy and cooperation between the four nations. Pakku was the most conservative of the Masters we saw in the first series, and even he relented when confronted with the foolishness of unwavering devotion to tradition and command. Unfortunately, the tendency of old Masters to become set in their ways led to the inflexibility of the White Lotus masters and their attitude toward Korra. I highly doubt Aang had a prison in mind when he charged them with protecting his successor.

I find the lack of a White Lotus mantle on Katara to be curious. She is apparently not following in her step-granddad's footsteps. It makes one wonder how many of the first series' protagonists actually joined the organization. Sokka and Suki might have been the only ones.

And now, for the big issue at hand: Republic City. Aang and Zuko founded it, and the United Republic of Nations, as an answer to the tricky question of the century-old Fire Nation colonies on the Earth Kingdom Continent. It was perhaps the best solution anyone could have found, and it seems to have mostly worked. There appears to be no strong distinction of nation at Republic City, save recognizing newcomers like Korra by their national origins. Hell, we even have a pair of brothers who bend different elements (whether such is common or not is yet to be seen).

But as Kant once pointed out, the solution to one generation's problem doesn't prevent new problems from plaguing the next. It can even be the cause of the next generation's problem. Now Republic City is being shaken to its foundation by organized crime and particularly the anti-bending revolution, which is demanding "equality" between bender and non-bender.

And.... the anti-benders might even have a good point.

We haven't seen much of Republic City yet. In the words of Mister Spock, we have "insufficient data" to determine the full extent of the issue. But let's look at what we have seen. We've seen homelessness and poverty - unsurprising as it is - that can create social strife and division. (Oh, did anyone catch how the park vagrant's bush sparkled when he referred to it? Hilarious little bit of humor there). We've seen criminals with bending abilities (The Triple Threat Triad) engaging in racketeering against local businesses. The police are all-bender (Metalbending Earthbenders at that) and are led by a stern and arrogant woman who's attitude toward citizen involvement in crime prevention is "Call the police and walk away". (Granted, Korra did go too far when she actively attacked the Triad's car). Tenzin is a City Councilman, and one wonders if he was democratically elected or an appointee due to his parentage. Again, we haven't seen quite everything yet, but as of now every leader of the city we've seen has been a bender. The press even directly asked Korra if she was going to go after the anti-benders as well as the triads; the implication that they're no different from criminal thugs makes me wonder if we have some bias on the part of the press concerning the issue as well.

So imagine you're a non-bender. A city leadership (possibly) dominated by benders. The police are all benders. Criminal thugs with bending powers feel perfectly safe in attacking you in broad daylight, on a public street, even with police zeppelins in the air and able to quickly respond (look at how quickly they responded when Korra caused the Triads to crash into a building). The newspapers and radio news shows dismiss your concerns about bender domination and imply those who oppose bender domination of the Republic are to the level of organized crime gangs. And now this fellow Amon's coming along, saying you don't have to accept bender superiority, that you have rights too and the right to being equal to benders. As his spokesman is talking, this arrogant Water Tribe girl trots up on a polar bear dog and acts all huffy about how cool bending is and that she's thinking of using her power to attack a man who's only "crime" is to demand equal rights. Then you recognize her voice again on the radio; she was the Avatar. So much for the Avatars being guardians of peace and justice and balance, yes?

(Of course, in truth the inexperienced, aggressive Korra was steered into that response by a perceptive and crafty public speaker, but you have to think of the mindset of someone who lives every day feeling like a second class citizen because they can't bend an element).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week's episode. By its description it appears we'll finally get to see Amon make an early move. I can't wait to see the central conflict begin shaping up.

Oh, and finally... yeah, JME, I'm getting vibes of Terry and Babs' rocky relationship too.

[Bright]

And she loves fighting, too. In the Firebending trial she was there to win, not just pass.

I think that scene did a wonderful job of reaffirming her core personality. There was actually a moment where she was standing between her two opponents and trading fire with both of them. It immediately struck me that this is something Aang would never have done. He'd have evaded and dodged, let them blast each other - something like that. Korra stood her ground and took it. It's great that her personality's seeping through everything she does, including her fighting style.

That Pro Bending is the "perfect teaching tool" for Korra to learn Airbending isn't shocking. Again, she's aggressive, forceful, competitive. Normal Airbending training is the exact opposite, emphasizing the spiritual basis of the art, passivity and flexibility. It doesn't mesh with her personality at all. Toph had to adjust herself to get Aang to grip Earthbending. All in all, I'm really curious as to where they're going to take this storyline with Korra, and the when and how she learns the spiritual side of being the Avatar.

Well, Mike and Bryan have said in interviews that they tried to craft a conflict that couldn't be solved just by fighting. So I think that while Korra's going to dismantle Amon's plot directly, she's also going to have to learn and grow to address the underlying social concerns of non-benders with diplomacy. (Considering there's two Councilmen in the cast, this might even involve legislation.) That's how I think her spirituality's going to play a role in the resolution of the confict.

The White Lotus is not meant to be custodians of the Avatar, they're meant to encourage philosophy and cooperation between the four nations.

Yeah, but that was back in the day. I'm guessing most of the infrastructure that existed to guide and monitor the Avatar didn't survive the Hundred Year War, so the White Lotus took on a new function to fill the gap.

The police are all-bender (Metalbending Earthbenders at that) and are led by a stern and arrogant woman who's attitude toward citizen involvement in crime prevention is "Call the police and walk away".

The beat cop that chased Korra away from the park seemed like a non-bender. I'd say odds are good that the metalbenders are a special division.

Tenzin is a City Councilman, and one wonders if he was democratically elected or an appointee due to his parentage. Again, we haven't seen quite everything yet, but as of now every leader of the city we've seen has been a bender.

Just wondering, are you familiar with the guide to Republic City (which unfortunately isn't all open yet) on Nickelodeon's site? Among other things, it gives some insight into the City Council. It seems to consist of:

Air (Tenzin) - bender.
Northern Water (Tarrlok) - bender.
Southern Water - unknown.
Fire - bender.
Earth - possibly non-bender. He seems to disapprove of the Fire Nation representative's display of fire-bending, which could either mean antipathy towards the Fire Nation or towards bending.

[Haruko]

When I think about the anti-bender bias that seems great enough to cause a lot of motivated, creative, and hardworking men and women to found or work for a powerful group aimed at revolutionizing society for the benefit of non-benders, I think about the irony of how many of the people responsible for creating that society were non-benders. Makes me wonder how much the founders and other influential figures were involved in creating a new set of laws for the new republic (if at all), and how much thought was given to protections for non-benders. Maybe the thought did not even occur to them; they never became conscious of the need.

[Steve]

Seems reasonable. It's a problem that hasn't yet existed in any of the four nations. Non-benders still identified heavily with their nationalities and thus with the benders they lived with. The Fire Nation's campaigns against the other nations were even explicitly geared toward removing and eliminating the Earth and Waterbenders.

But now the United Republic has created a new multinational identity with an industrialized society and a higher standard of living (things like, heh, modern plumbing). The bender/non-bender distinction is thus more likely to arise.

Will be interesting to see if Amon has ulterior motives or not. He could simply be a revolutionary who truly believes in the "equality" (I use quotes because I fully suspect that much like the old joke about countries with "Democratic" and "People's" adjectives in their legal names, the Equalist Movement isn't really dedicated to true equality) or he could have other reasons for disrupting Republic City.

[JME2]

Will be interesting to see if Amon has ulterior motives or not. He could simply be a revolutionary who truly believes in the "equality" (I use quotes because I fully suspect that much like the old joke about countries with "Democratic" and "People's" adjectives in their legal names, the Equalist Movement isn't really dedicated to true equality) or he could have other reasons for disrupting Republic City.

Yeah, I'm wondering if any of our theories regarding the Equalists from last summer will turn out to be right. It's impossible to guess Amon's motivations as of now because he's only had one scene. But, somebody pointed out that mechanical blueprints for a vehicle or automaton can can be seen on the wall of Amon's HQ in the last scene of the pilot. Based on the trailers for Book 1, this isn't going to end well and the revolution will not be civilized.

I also think that even with only 1 episode so far, the Equalists are the right choice for a new antagonist. Harmony and cooperation were themes of the original series and while the Equalists may have a point, they're still perverting those ideals and themes. Also, no one wants the Fire Nation 2.0; the Water Tribe isn't a threat and we've already seen an evil Earth Kingdom thanks to the Dai Li. It also wouldn't work anyway because the story of Korra isn't a globe-trotting fight against an imperialist empire; it's a struggle to prevent a social revolution from destroying a city and the nation it inhabits. I also like the Equalists are more of a movement/secret society than an Empire. It differentiates them from Ozai's regime.

It also makes fighting them more difficult. With the Fire Nation, anyone bending fire or wearing red was presumed to be 'evil'. Here, cultures have merged and there's no initial way of discerning differences. If the Equalists are played up as a secret society and if they're as well connected as the trailer for next week is implying, then it means any non-Bender in the City could be an Equalist -- and the jobs of Korra, Tenzin, Lin, and the rest just got harder.

On a side note Steve, I think you absolutely nailed why Tenzin is so stiff and formal. Not only does it differentiate him from his father, but the burden he's carrying would be overwhelming to anyone. Interacting with a rebellious, stubborn reincarnation of your father wouldn't help matters either. Two episodes in and J.K. Simmons is perfect for the role.

[SirNitram]

Will be interesting to see if Amon has ulterior motives or not. He could simply be a revolutionary who truly believes in the "equality" (I use quotes because I fully suspect that much like the old joke about countries with "Democratic" and "People's" adjectives in their legal names, the Equalist Movement isn't really dedicated to true equality) or he could have other reasons for disrupting Republic City.

Yeah, I'm wondering if any of our theories regarding the Equalists from last summer will turn out to be right. It's impossible to guess Amon's motivations as of now because he's only had one scene. But, somebody pointed out that mechanical blueprints for a vehicle or automaton can can be seen on the wall of Amon's HQ in the last scene of the pilot. Based on the trailers for Book 1, this isn't going to end well and the revolution will not be civilized.

If Last Airbender taught me anything: If you can make out what the sketch, blueprint, etc is, it will turn out to be noticably important. The drilling machine, the white lotus tile, the bison whistle, the schematics for a prototype war balloon, the The Lionturtle...

[Haruko]

Will be interesting to see if Amon has ulterior motives or not. He could simply be a revolutionary who truly believes in the "equality" (I use quotes because I fully suspect that much like the old joke about countries with "Democratic" and "People's" adjectives in their legal names, the Equalist Movement isn't really dedicated to true equality) or he could have other reasons for disrupting Republic City.

I truly hope that even if he is misguided or brutal that he has this belief in his heart that what he is doing is for the better of those around him. And of course you can hold this belief while also holding less "noble" motives. I hope Amon has this complexity.

By the way, regarding the term Equalist and your allusion to communism, there is an interesting footnote in the Barnes & Noble edition of The Communist Manifesto:

François-Noël Babeus (1760-1797) supported the French Revolution and advocated increasingly radical reforms; he formed a secret society, the Conspiracy of the Equals, to overthrow the government and was finally executed.

Ha. I immediately thought of the Equalists and specifically Amon and was compelled to ask the series creators if they ever heard of Mr. Babeus.

[noncredible]

I found about this show purely by chance yesterday: I was cleaning up my Lego, and found Zuko's ship, and remembered wondering why Zuko's ship was so small. I went to the AtlA wiki, and found out about AtlK.

I've only seen a small snippet that I found on YouTube, but the show looks like it is and will be awesome. I'll post more later, once I've seen more of it

[Batman]

There were AtlA LEGO sets?

[JME2]

Yep.

[Themightytom]

I found about this show purely by chance yesterday: I was cleaning up my Lego, and found Zuko's ship, and remembered wondering why Zuko's ship was so small. I went to the AtlA wiki, and found out about AtlK.

I've only seen a small snippet that I found on YouTube, but the show looks like it is and will be awesome. I'll post more later, once I've seen more of it

http://www.nick.com/videos/legend-of-ko ... id=showNav

get started buddy

[JME2]

Will be interesting to see if Amon has ulterior motives or not. He could simply be a revolutionary who truly believes in the "equality" (I use quotes because I fully suspect that much like the old joke about countries with "Democratic" and "People's" adjectives in their legal names, the Equalist Movement isn't really dedicated to true equality) or he could have other reasons for disrupting Republic City.

Yeah, I'm wondering if any of our theories regarding the Equalists from last summer will turn out to be right. It's impossible to guess Amon's motivations as of now because he's only had one scene. But, somebody pointed out that mechanical blueprints for a vehicle or automaton can can be seen on the wall of Amon's HQ in the last scene of the pilot. Based on the trailers for Book 1, this isn't going to end well and the revolution will not be civilized.

If Last Airbender taught me anything: If you can make out what the sketch, blueprint, etc is, it will turn out to be noticably important. The drilling machine, the white lotus tile, the bison whistle, the schematics for a prototype war balloon, the The Lionturtle...

Good point -- and that the Equalists have the resources to build something like that hints they have powerful backing or resources.

[noncredible]

I found about this show purely by chance yesterday: I was cleaning up my Lego, and found Zuko's ship, and remembered wondering why Zuko's ship was so small. I went to the AtlA wiki, and found out about AtlK.

I've only seen a small snippet that I found on YouTube, but the show looks like it is and will be awesome. I'll post more later, once I've seen more of it

http://www.nick.com/videos/legend-of-ko ... id=showNav

get started buddy

Thanks

There were AtlA LEGO sets?

Yep, two of them: Zuko's ship and an air temple.

[hongi]

Seems reasonable. It's a problem that hasn't yet existed in any of the four nations. Non-benders still identified heavily with their nationalities and thus with the benders they lived with. The Fire Nation's campaigns against the other nations were even explicitly geared toward removing and eliminating the Earth and Waterbenders.

But now the United Republic has created a new multinational identity with an industrialized society and a higher standard of living (things like, heh, modern plumbing). The bender/non-bender distinction is thus more likely to arise.

Will be interesting to see if Amon has ulterior motives or not. He could simply be a revolutionary who truly believes in the "equality" (I use quotes because I fully suspect that much like the old joke about countries with "Democratic" and "People's" adjectives in their legal names, the Equalist Movement isn't really dedicated to true equality) or he could have other reasons for disrupting Republic City.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The previous war was about nationalism. With the nations taken away, there's something more fundamental at stake...

Personally, I think people are being too sympathetic to the Equalists, too early on. We have very little to go on. I wonder if an unconscious reason for siding with the non-benders is because that's what they themselves would do in a situation where people have superpowers. Discomfort, fear, jealousy are natural reactions to a neighbour who can control the elements. Of course, for thematic reasons, it'd be nice for the enemy to be sympathetic so that we get more complex villians.

[Steve]

Oh, I'm under no illusions that the Equalists are "really the good guys", etc, and we certainly don't know enough about their planned policies or even the Republic's political structure to know how justified they are. I was just postulating that there might be a legitimate reason for non-benders to be willing to politically organize as anti-benders.

Frankly with the commercial bits that have been shown of Amon's statements, I can't help but feel that "equality" is going to be more like the Jacobin or Marxist idea of it... namely in which it's gained by terrorizing and killing anyone who disagrees or who seems to inherently break equality.

[SAMAS]

The Equalists smell like a normal grass-roots movement that's getting jacked by a guy with "Big Plans". He seems to be pushing the Harisson Burgeon idea of Equality (ref: Handicapper General).

[noncredible]

So I watched the first two episodes, and they're pretty good. The show seems a tad more childish than AtlA, but still pretty good.

[Chirios]

So I watched the first two episodes, and they're pretty good. The show seems a tad more childish than AtlA, but still pretty good.

First season of AtlA was pretty childish as well.

Haven't seen these yet, anybody know when they're coming out in the UK?