Christopher Nolan to take over Superman.

[Havok]

Batman has some pretty different versions of his origins though. Yes his parents always get killed in crime alley, but by who and why varies. How does he become Batman, where does he train also varies. His personality as Batman has also been changed on several occasions. Even how Bruce Wayne is presented is different.

Superman is always the same... last survivor of Krypton. Lands in Kansas, raised by the Kents, finds his powers in high school, moves to Metropolis becomes a reporter, appears as Superman.
That is it, there is no variation. Unless you go into why Krypton exploded. Supes also always has the same 'yes ma'am, no ma'am' attitude and values. They also never change. Even in something like Kingdom Come, he is exactly the same, the only difference is that he has become disgusted with the LACK of those values in the world around him, but he is still the same. Oh and sometimes Lex is a classmate and sometimes he isn't.

Christ, even as a Commie he was the same fucking guy.

That is my point though, we don't need to be introduced to some writers slight tweak of the origin because invariably, they are almost always identical. We don't need to connect to something we never un connected from. Hell, the Donner/Singer Superman IS the same guy.

But for contrast, look at Nolan Bats Vs Burton Bats...
Burton Bats, has no origin story, just Viki Vale figuring out what happened as a reporter (which worked great by the way) His Bruce Wayne is a shrewd business man that runs his company well and efficiently. His Batman has a sense of humor and kills indiscriminately and has no issue with using guns. Now that is a fucking drastic change from most Batmans we know and would have deserved a new origin introduction, but as I said, we didn't get one and nobody had an issue connecting with the character.

Now you have Nolans Bats, who is actually standard fare Bats (No guns, no killing, plays up the ditzy Wayne and the ULTRA serious Bats) and we got an origin story, which admittedly by most, made for a movie that wasn't as good as the sequel which didn't bother with one.

The only watermark that anyone should worry about is making an interesting movie. Retelling an origin right off the bat, is completely unneeded. Again, especially for Superman, where you know it is going to be exactly the same as what we already know.

[Ghost Rider]

Theat's the point. Batman's origin is "Parents shot, Bruce shattered declaring vengeance". Superman is "Last survivor of Krypton, Clark uses his powers for good".

The variation exists upon what influence does his natural versus adopted parents. Also there is a decent variation where does he feel he should be and what does he do with his powers, and why he has his belief of helping his adopted worl. Superman has had more then a few variations upon which set of parents he believes in more, when does his power erupt and in what fashion and in fact more then a bit variation of why he is here.

Batman's by contrast is how does he go from Bruce Wayne 8/10 to Batman. Nolan made the journey his way, as Miller did, as Finger did, and many others.

This is why they do an origin.

[Oskuro]

I just think that it may be time to think a bit out of the box, as most of the traditional ideas have been done to death, and not very well at that.

The thing is where they've been done to death. If that's the comics, or the TV series, most of the mainstream viewers wouldn't have seen them. Take me, for example, I loved Supes as a kid (The Reeves movies) yet I never got into the comics or the TV series, so, for me, those angles haven't been done to death.

[Temujin]

I just think that it may be time to think a bit out of the box, as most of the traditional ideas have been done to death, and not very well at that.

The thing is where they've been done to death. If that's the comics, or the TV series, most of the mainstream viewers wouldn't have seen them. Take me, for example, I loved Supes as a kid (The Reeves movies) yet I never got into the comics or the TV series, so, for me, those angles haven't been done to death.

That makes sense. I myself am not up on everything that has occurred in the comics, but there certainly have been some good ideas from the comics medium; so its possible some of those ideas may be worthwhile in developing. For example, I did love the way the Timmverse handled the animated stories.

I think the issue with the ideas in the comics is more in their execution, especially over the course of multiple issues as writers come and go, and executive decisions from the fan boys higher up take a good idea and ruin it. As a result of being exposed to that, I guess I'm a bit jaded.

[open_sketchbook]

I would really like to see something more along the lines of presenting Superman as Superman, unchanged as a character, bright idealistic heroic adventuring and all that, but make the world's reaction to him more realistic and darker and confront what it means to have somebody with world-changing powers. Superman is a one-man superpower, a nation of his own. Nothing on Earth can stop him. He has the power to totally destroy and reshape the entire planet, but he restricts himself to fairly petty heroics. Thus, present a Superman story where the villians cannot be punched into submission; force are pushing on him to intervein overseas, to overthrow dictators, to stop genocide, while Superman just wants to help some people out. He's just a good, upstanding guy who happens to have the power of a god, and his attempts to help people are lost in a sea of humanity demanding he fix everyone's problems. The real challenge isn't slugging people in the face, it's existing in a world where you are at the same time the most powerful individual force in the universe and a simple man trying to what he feels is his part.

That, or dial his powers all the way to his first incarnation; jump hella high, run faster than a speeding train, let small arms fire bounce off you. That's plenty enough powers for heroics without having to wonder why Superman just doesn't take over or start getting worshipped as a god or something.

[Oskuro]

So you're suggesting the do Watchmen again with Supes instead of Dr. Manhattan?

[Old Plympto]

If they tighten up the plot a bit, I think All-Star Superman would be a great movie adaptation that showcases Superman's abilities (not just his physical ones) and how humans perceive him. Not sure if filmmakers would be crazy for its ending though.

[Temujin]

I would really like to see something more along the lines of presenting Superman as Superman, unchanged as a character, bright idealistic heroic adventuring and all that, but make the world's reaction to him more realistic and darker and confront what it means to have somebody with world-changing powers. Superman is a one-man superpower, a nation of his own. Nothing on Earth can stop him. He has the power to totally destroy and reshape the entire planet, but he restricts himself to fairly petty heroics. Thus, present a Superman story where the villians cannot be punched into submission; force are pushing on him to intervein overseas, to overthrow dictators, to stop genocide, while Superman just wants to help some people out. He's just a good, upstanding guy who happens to have the power of a god, and his attempts to help people are lost in a sea of humanity demanding he fix everyone's problems. The real challenge isn't slugging people in the face, it's existing in a world where you are at the same time the most powerful individual force in the universe and a simple man trying to what he feels is his part.

Sorry, no Silver Age Superman for me. I never could stand when they made him so uber powerful.

That, or dial his powers all the way to his first incarnation; jump hella high, run faster than a speeding train, let small arms fire bounce off you. That's plenty enough powers for heroics without having to wonder why Superman just doesn't take over or start getting worshipped as a god or something.

Now something like this I could go with, especially if they put some thought into how he uses his strength. In other words, no picking up a heavy object from just anywhere as if you have a magical telekinetic field, you have to lift it from a structural strong point or else watch it crumble and break apart.

[JME2]

If they tighten up the plot a bit, I think All-Star Superman would be a great movie adaptation that showcases Superman's abilities (not just his physical ones) and how humans perceive him. Not sure if filmmakers would be crazy for its ending though.

The perception could also take a page from both the aforementioned Secret Origin and Mark Waid's Birthright, with both the presence of General Lane and Lex playing off fears of invasion.

[TimothyC]

If they tighten up the plot a bit, I think All-Star Superman would be a great movie adaptation that showcases Superman's abilities (not just his physical ones) and how humans perceive him. Not sure if filmmakers would be crazy for its ending though.

The perception could also take a page from both the aforementioned Secret Origin and Mark Waid's Birthright, with both the presence of General Lane and Lex playing off fears of invasion.

*Digs out All Star Superman*

Yes, that with the Secret Origin1 background would work.

1. What has been released of Secret Origin that is.

[The Romulan Republic]

That, or dial his powers all the way to his first incarnation; jump hella high, run faster than a speeding train, let small arms fire bounce off you. That's plenty enough powers for heroics without having to wonder why Superman just doesn't take over or start getting worshipped as a god or something.

I would keep the flight as well, if only because its an iconic image of the character now.

Everything else I would gladly discard.

[JME2]

1. What has been released of Secret Origin that is.

Yeah, I'm not happy about the delays either.

[Temujin]

That, or dial his powers all the way to his first incarnation; jump hella high, run faster than a speeding train, let small arms fire bounce off you. That's plenty enough powers for heroics without having to wonder why Superman just doesn't take over or start getting worshipped as a god or something.

I would keep the flight as well, if only because its an iconic image of the character now.

Everything else I would gladly discard.

Yeah, the flight has to be retained.

I truly enjoyed the Timmverse take on Superman, at about what level was that version at. He didn't seem to powerful most of the time.

[Batman]

I'm hiding in the Timmster's desk for a REASON
And I think Team Timm DEpowering most of the 'Asteroid impact imminent? Let's just shove Earth out of the way' level heroes (nevermind how stupid that approach is to begin with) was a GOOD thing. You simply CAN'T challenge heroes like that outside The End Of The World Is Near scenarios and sometimes not even then. If memory serves (and I'm not at all sure it does) the Byrne reboot of Clark way back when (Gods, I'm feeling old now) had him peak at being barely able to lift a couple million tons, moving marginally hypersonic and he was knocked out cold by MT level events. That's definitely superhuman but something you can WORK with. A guy who can essentially ignore the whole real world's nuclear arsenal going off in his ear? And NOT NOTICE?

[The Romulan Republic]

That, or dial his powers all the way to his first incarnation; jump hella high, run faster than a speeding train, let small arms fire bounce off you. That's plenty enough powers for heroics without having to wonder why Superman just doesn't take over or start getting worshipped as a god or something.

I would keep the flight as well, if only because its an iconic image of the character now.

Everything else I would gladly discard.

Yeah, the flight has to be retained.

I'll add that the flight has a practical advantage as well. Not having flight largely limits Superman's heroics to one geographical region. He can't go saving the day in Antarctica or Afghanistan or whatever unless he flies.

[Meest]

Should be even more powered down to something like movie Hulk, forgot which one it was but he should feel pain while being really tough. Bullets could still be a low threat but hurt, can show more emotion and just can't ignore majority of threats. Key to every superhero story to me is the villain or sense of danger, you need to fear for his life or inaction causing fear/danger (to him or others).

[Temujin]

I'll add that the flight has a practical advantage as well. Not having flight largely limits Superman's heroics to one geographical region. He can't go saving the day in Antarctica or Afghanistan or whatever unless he flies.

Not to mention that super jumpy man would probably come across as pretty comedic.

[Temujin]

I'm hiding in the Timmster's desk for a REASON
And I think Team Timm DEpowering most of the 'Asteroid impact imminent? Let's just shove Earth out of the way' level heroes (nevermind how stupid that approach is to begin with) was a GOOD thing. You simply CAN'T challenge heroes like that outside The End Of The World Is Near scenarios and sometimes not even then. If memory serves (and I'm not at all sure it does) the Byrne reboot of Clark way back when (Gods, I'm feeling old now) had him peak at being barely able to lift a couple million tons, moving marginally hypersonic and he was knocked out cold by MT level events. That's definitely superhuman but something you can WORK with. A guy who can essentially ignore the whole real world's nuclear arsenal going off in his ear? And NOT NOTICE?

Yeah, while some fanboys love to wank over how powerful their pet characters are (exhibit A: Wolverine ), if they encountered someone with the abilities you outlined in real life they'd be fucking blown away. The sad thing is while this constant leveling up isn't new, it does seem to continually creep in to certain characters, even after they've to reset them to more sensible levels.

Should be even more powered down to something like movie Hulk, forgot which one it was but he should feel pain while being really tough. Bullets could still be a low threat but hurt, can show more emotion and just can't ignore majority of threats. Key to every superhero story to me is the villain or sense of danger, you need to fear for his life or inaction causing fear/danger (to him or others).

Well there is a certain threshold Supes shouldn't be brought below. Bullet bouncing harmlessly off his chest is one, though a high powered automatic cannon should be a different story.

[Ghost Rider]

It's simple. Superman along with every single book hero is as powerful or as weak as the flavor of the year wants him to be. Will they ever agree...fuck no. Why? Because almost everyone who writes for comics don't give a fuck about power levels, they give a fuck about their story. All they do is add whacky moral/technobabble/psychological reason that said character is doing better or worse.

Writers tend to also forget or selectively remember what they want, which is why any continuity goes apeshit nuts when said character is unable to perform a feat he did less then a year ago. Just like ST and most serialized shows of a fantastic nature.

[Batman]

Well there is a certain threshold Supes shouldn't be brought below. Bullet bouncing harmlessly off his chest is one, though a high powered automatic cannon should be a different story.

Clark being able to ignore conventional explosives is something I'm perfectly happy with. He IS Superman afterall. It's when he can casually go FTL and ignore firepower that would cause a Star Destroyer captain worry that things get out of hand.

[Oskuro]

I'm not too worried about him being extremely powerful, as with Dr.Manhattan, it offers a chance for different story types instead of the usual "Hero punches problems away".

And even if he doesn't have cosmic powers (wich I don't like either), Supes should be drastically superior to most other movie heroes (so far). He's the guy who punches asteroids off course, making him comparable to recent movie heroes would be like making a caped Spider Man.

[Ghost Rider]

Even Timmverse fails in this perspective, they never use the whole of Superman very well. Even in his depowered form, he has incredible sensory upgrades, speed, endurance, flight, strength, and a host of ranged abilities. Yet they use him so many times as some inept flying Hulk with possible laser vision when he cares to remember it.

Whatever power level, I'd like someone to fucking realize his entire array and use them intelligently rather then "Shit! He can't punch something down...whatever can he do!!!!". That would make for a good start.

[Batman]

You'll get no argument from me there. One of my more common reactions on watching Clark on STAS/JL/JLU was 'HELLO? HEAT VISION?'
Nevermind superspeed. But at least the Timmverse powered him down to where being too Valendamned stupid to make the best of his abilities would actually HURT him. COMICS Superman being too stupid to use his heat vision to kill or using his superspeed to avoid being HIT by a even a NUCLEAR warhead will result in him going 'Bugger.'

[Ghost Rider]

You'll get no argument from me there. One of my more common reactions on watching Clark on STAS/JL/JLU was 'HELLO? HEAT VISION?'
Nevermind superspeed. But at least the Timmverse powered him down to where being too Valendamned stupid to make the best of his abilities would actually HURT him. COMICS Superman being too stupid to use his heat vision to kill or using his superspeed to avoid being HIT by a even a NUCLEAR warhead will result in him going 'Bugger.'

Actually the Timmverse had some massive issues with his invulnerability and powers in general. He takes on big guys...no sweat. Hit with an electric grate...and BAM! He's in pain. Flying through whatever at incredible speed. Doesn't even side track his spit curl. Get hit through a single wall and stumble...oooooh look he's strugging to get up. Stop a train? Cool. Need him to actually doing something he lifted in an earlier episode of less mass? Sorry, too weak.

Like I said, every single writer makes Superman as strong as they want him to be, fuck actually giving him a baseline that writer can agree with consistency. I won't even broach the idea of multiple writers grasping that simple of an idea.

[Batman]

I won't even pretend I can argue any of that But at least Timmverse Clark was massively inconsistent on a NOT planet shattering power level.