"One More Day": Something occurs to me...

[18-Till-I-Die]

I was just sifting through the mire that is OMD and i realized something:

The whole plot would have worked fine, if May had DIED instead of being wounded. I mean really, i believe the real problem here is not that Spiderman and MJ were broken up (or at least it wasn't for me...i don't care about their marriage) but that the circumstances were so contrived it was laughable.

Spiderman goes to Dr. Strange to help him...the story should have ended there. But it didn't, Strange can't do shit, so he goes and asks like everybody, and no one can help. No one, not even Elixir who can regenerate someone after their heart gets torn out or Angel who can heal people with his blood (last i checked), even Reed Richards who can build interdimensional portals, not Dr. Strange who can summon Gods to help him if need be...seriously that's one of his powers. None of these people can mend a bullet wound? Really? Modern medicine can't do it, magic can't do it, metaphysical mutant abilities that can REGROW AN EXCISED HEART can't do it...really? No, really? This doesn't make sense even from a comic book or fantasy perspective...the only logical explanation here is that they're all lying to him for some reason, as no other explanation actually makes sense in-universe! It's not even a plot hole, or a continuity error, because these people are shown to be able to do these things but, here, they either can't or won't for some reason. So yeah, it onlymakes sense, if they were lying for some reason.

That i think is the problem, that the whole situation falls apart when you examine the underlying problem at the heart of it all. Now i think that the simple substitution of May being dead would change things. If her brains had ended up on the sidewalk after that sniper shot...then it all makes sense. Medicine, even superscience medicine, can't bring back the dead. Healers can't heal a corpse. Dr. Strange could say something about "the rules say i can't raise the dead" or some such...it would actually WORK on a naritive level. Then the story could progress logically from that...he asks the Devil to raise his dead Aunt's soul and bring her back. Ok fine it's corny and reeks of some kind of Twilight Zone episode but at least it makes sense in-universe, at least it's not some bizarre scenario where the only logical answer is that Spiderman's friends are lying to him because they don't WAN'T to bring her back. At least it requires some actual thought, no matter how absurd.

Anyone else agree here? Would it have at least made some sense, or "more" sense, if she had just been killed instead of wounded? I honestly think that is my only real issue with the whole thing...but mind, i honestly didn't care about Spiderman's marriage to MJ so their relationship or lackthereof now was irrelevent to me. But what i could never get over was the thought that, on it's face, the whole underlying premise just didn't function. Anyone else see what i mean? Would this scenario help the story at all...not make it "good" just make it "logical" in-universe?

[General Zod]

Isn't May like 80 billion years old? Maybe they refused because it would've only just bought her a few more years before she kicked the bucket from natural causes anyway?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Good question. Uh...I actually have no idea how old she is. Peter's in his thirties i think, so if i knew how old his mother was when he was concieved i could probably have an estimate since she couldn't be THAT much older. She's his aunt so his mom would be her sister, or sister by marriage in this case, but their ages couldn't be vastly off. Not by more than a decade anyway, at least i dont think so. If "Trouble" is any indication then she could be in her fifties-sixties, since Spiderman's mom was like twelve when she got knocked up in that comic so she would have been a teenager or early twenties at most, but thing is that's not canon i think. Also the thing is they draw her in such a way she LOOKS like she's lived through the War Between the States.

Jesus how old is May??

They keep all the time scales so vague in Marvel Comics you can never be sure of anything.

I'm gonna go with the actress who played her in the movie and say about 81, which is indeed pretty fucking ancient. But see, thing is she could very realistically live another decade after that. So, yeah...

[General Zod]

I'm also pretty sure there were a number of issues where May was suffering from some heart condition or another anyway, meaning she had a shortened life expectancy, though I don't know what timeline you're using offhand since I haven't kept tabs on Spiderman books for years.

[Vendetta]

Would this scenario help the story at all...not make it "good" just make it "logical" in-universe?

Not really. I mean death is pretty much a mild inconvenience to the vast majority of Marvel characters. Chances are, Peter knows at least three or four people who could bring her back without serious effort.

[Ghost Rider]

If May died, and Peter went emo it would be a piss poor redo of Peter David's bit with Rick Jones.

And Rick literally went across nearly every hero AND villain about this and several gave some bullshit in which he gave the classic thought that everyone had died at least once...even Dr. Strange's manservant, Wong. And they were all living and breathing.

Sorry, May dying would've been yet another "Who cares, she'll come back because no one dies in comic unless their name is Uncle Ben."

As for health issues? One of the oldest Spiderman cliches is Aunt May suffering something and going into the hospital as Spidey battles the evil villain wondering if his dear sweet old Aunt May will see it through the night.

[Jim Raynor]

The plot for OMD doesn't make sense, because OMD isn't a real and honest attempt to tell a story. It was just Joe Q pushing his agenda to make Peter single again, and May and Mephisto were just plot devices.

Really, why would any sane person make a deal with the devil? Hasn't Peter read enough stories or seen enough movies to suspect that he'll get double crossed? Who's to say Mephisto won't have Aunt May get hit by a car briefly after "saving" her? Why would Peter assume that the fucking devil has any honor? Why are we even talking about the devil in regards to "The Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man?" This is the kind of story that's appropriate for the character?

Notice that Mephisto claims after the deal is sealed that a small part of Peter and MJ's souls will remember the retcon and always scream in torment over what they've lost. They had to write that, because the devil making a deal without some amount of dickery would have been way to blatant. In a real story arc, the audience can expect for this dilemma to be solved in later issues. Except that will NEVER be mentioned again. Joe Q and Marvel have tried to sweep OMD under the rug as they tell stories of the new, "hip," and single Peter again. They hope that no one will remember or dwell on it, even though readers know that canonically Peter has been screwed and is still suffering from it. OMD isn't a story. It's just an excuse to retcon.

Good question. Uh...I actually have no idea how old she is. Peter's in his thirties i think, so if i knew how old his mother was when he was concieved i could probably have an estimate since she couldn't be THAT much older. She's his aunt so his mom would be her sister, or sister by marriage in this case, but their ages couldn't be vastly off. Not by more than a decade anyway, at least i dont think so.

It could be a lot older. I know of some people who are 15, 20 years older than their siblings. My mom is a year older than her uncle. Let's say Peter's mom was relatively old to have her first and only child (around 35), and May is 15 years older than that. Add 25-30 years and you get a May who's in her 70s or 80s.

[General Zod]

Really, why would any sane person make a deal with the devil? Hasn't Peter read enough stories or seen enough movies to suspect that he'll get double crossed? Who's to say Mephisto won't have Aunt May get hit by a car briefly after "saving" her? Why would Peter assume that the fucking devil has any honor? Why are we even talking about the devil in regards to "The Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man?" This is the kind of story that's appropriate for the character?

Why would any sane person make a deal? That's kind of a dumb question. The devil/satan/whatever often appeals to people when they're in a moment of weakness and does everything possible to make themselves seem sympathetic and make the deal seem not so bad. There's any number of reasons why someone otherwise sane might be seduced to taking that kind of deal. Guilt can cause otherwise sane people to do very irrational things.

[Grasscutter]

The plot for OMD doesn't make sense, because OMD isn't a real and honest attempt to tell a story. It was just Joe Q pushing his agenda to make Peter single again, and May and Mephisto were just plot devices.

It still boggles my mind that Queseda thought that restructuring the entire Marvel Universe and retconning decades worth of stories was somehow more compelling, believable, and logical than doing a storyline where Peter and MJ have marital problems and eventually divorce.

[General Zod]

The plot for OMD doesn't make sense, because OMD isn't a real and honest attempt to tell a story. It was just Joe Q pushing his agenda to make Peter single again, and May and Mephisto were just plot devices.

It still boggles my mind that Queseda thought that restructuring the entire Marvel Universe and retconning decades worth of stories was somehow more compelling, believable, and logical than doing a storyline where Peter and MJ have marital problems and eventually divorce.

I think Quesada was the one that thought hopeless nerds could identify with a single Peter Parker better than a married one.

[Grasscutter]

I think Quesada was the one that thought hopeless nerds could identify with a single Peter Parker better than a married one.

Which is complete bullshit to begin with. Taking Peter Parker back to his always-gets-shit-on roots basically says to me, "look you dumb nerds, it doesn't matter if you get superpowers, life still sucks and everybody is still going to hate you." I don't know about you other hopeless nerds, but I don't buy comics to get that kind of message thrown in my face .

But my point was more that if he really wanted to split Peter and MJ up, having them go through a rough point in their marriage and split up would have been a much better way to go, both in terms of storywriting and logistics, than reality-altering deus-ex-machina crap. With the first scenario, you get character development and a display of real human emotions that your readers can connect with. With the second scenario, you end up gunking up continuity and undoing the work of numerous other writers in non-Spiderman titles (basically any story that featured someone knowing Spiderman's identity as a plot point, like Civil War) as a result of your poorly thought out retcon.

[Ghost Rider]

To bring the divorce bit...Joey Q actually said he doesn't want to sully the purity of Peter in that fashion. A bit more verbose then what he said, but he did consider divorce WORSE then making a deal with Mephisto.

Says a lot about the dumbfuck.

[Steve]

How have Spidey sales been doing? I heard they surged as a result of the enthusiasm for BND before tapering off, but how have they done in the long-term?

I suspect that three-quarters, at least, of the people who bitch about OMD still buy Spider-Man comics. Because it's Spider-man, of course. Just like people who watched Enterprise every night because it was Star Trek even if they abhored it.

Yes, I pulled the three-quarters figure out of my ass. A compromise between my cynical side and the part of me thinking a huge majority was a tad too high a figure.

[Ghost Rider]

I believe Diamond has shown some loss of a consistent nature in comics over Spiderman. Nothing alarming but notable.

To be honest, unless Marvel lost somewhere in the venue of 10,000+ no one in the higher ups would bat an eye.

[lance]

I am pretty sure Aunt May was a teenager during WWII.

[Havok]

The thing is with Spidey (which I just canceled my subscription too) is that he is exactly the same as he has always been. Mary Jane, Aunt May or not. He still gets written as a fucking idiot. I mean, I look at a character like Professor X or Cyclops and how they have changed and matured and how their relationship has altered over the years, and then I look at Peter Parker, still hanging out with Harry Osbourne and working at the Daley Buglel/DB, and even now, at Front Line and he is still just a freelance photographer, one of the smartest people on the planet and he is still a fucking lackey. What the fuck... he is exactly the same. Even when he was married to MJ, there wasn't much variation from this... it was the same bull shit.

I would love for them to kill off his whole fucking family and friend base and have him move out to Los Angeles and become a coke addict just for something new. Give him some damn character. I mean, fuck, the guy can lift and press 10 tons, if not more. He can wipe the floor with the X-Men and probably most other heroes and villains in the Marvel U and his biggest adversaries are still purse snatchers. Thank god for Tony Stark being a prick or else Spidey would have been doing jack squat for the last three years.

Fuck.

[Steve]

Iconic characters are rarely permitted to have lasting changes unless a good writer with clout gets their hands on them, and even then they're usually not able to change things too greatly.

OTOH, when a writer who's allowing obsession with imagery and analogy to overtake his good sense has the clout to do this, you get... Batman RIP and Final Crisis.

[Tsyroc]

The thing is with Spidey (which I just canceled my subscription too) is that he is exactly the same as he has always been. Mary Jane, Aunt May or not. He still gets written as a fucking idiot. I mean, I look at a character like Professor X or Cyclops and how they have changed and matured and how their relationship has altered over the years, and then I look at Peter Parker, still hanging out with Harry Osbourne and working at the Daley Buglel/DB, and even now, at Front Line and he is still just a freelance photographer, one of the smartest people on the planet and he is still a fucking lackey. What the fuck... he is exactly the same. Even when he was married to MJ, there wasn't much variation from this... it was the same bull shit.

I would love for them to kill off his whole fucking family and friend base and have him move out to Los Angeles and become a coke addict just for something new. Give him some damn character. I mean, fuck, the guy can lift and press 10 tons, if not more. He can wipe the floor with the X-Men and probably most other heroes and villains in the Marvel U and his biggest adversaries are still purse snatchers. Thank god for Tony Stark being a prick or else Spidey would have been doing jack squat for the last three years.

Fuck.

I actually liked Peter's interaction with Stark before the Civil War bullshit. Stark was getting Peter to make some use of his brain. It was cool to see Peter in a not so shitty situation. Plus, I particularly liked Stark giving him crap for not making better use of his smarts.

[Havok]

That was my point about Stark. He actually brought out some positive change in Peter Parker. Then, HEY FUCK THAT SHIT! Angsty teenage screwup it is! Oh wait, except he is in his late 20s.

[Majin Gojira]

And if we want angsty screw-up spidey, we have Ultimate Spider-Man to work with!

Hell, from a draconian buisness sense, if Ult. Spidey was selling more, that might have been the impetus for the change. I don't think it was, but it'sa thought.

[General Zod]

And if we want angsty screw-up spidey, we have Ultimate Spider-Man to work with!

Hell, from a draconian buisness sense, if Ult. Spidey was selling more, that might have been the impetus for the change. I don't think it was, but it'sa thought.

The hilarious thing is ultimate spidey had even more going for him than regular spidey. Hell, he'd gotten an offer from Nick Fury to sign up for the Ultimates once he turned 18. That would've been a huge change in character direction alone.

[JME2]

OTOH, when a writer who's allowing obsession with imagery and analogy to overtake his good sense has the clout to do this, you get... Batman RIP and Final Crisis.

Not to mention the complete and utter fucking mess the Bat-books are in right now.

On the subject of Ultimate Spidey, the NYCC con reveals that the title will be canceled and relaunched in the wake of Ultimatum. Shouldn't stop it from remaining the only good Spidey book left, though.

[Havok]

Well honestly, at least for me, Spidey isn't bad right now. It's just dull and boring and monotonous. I've done all the Harry/Norman already. Aunt May should be DEAD. MJ was an empty shell of a character and I don't even miss her. There have been some good issues in the mix and some cool art, and someone new to Spidey would probably dig it, but yeah... just, been there done that already.