Doomsday in New York

[Solauren]

The question rapidly becomes; how fast to allies get pulled in?

The Marvel universe has shown this lovely ability to co-ordinate heroes when required.

Case in point; Onslaught

When it was obvious what a threat he was, the X-men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, and the Hulk team up to fight him. It got so bad, and obvious that group was losing, others showed up to help, including Doctor Doom. Excalibur was also considering going to assit.

The only reason everyone didn't team up on the Incredible Hulk in World War hulk is the post-civil war feelings and issues that were still there. That, and the Hulk demanding only a few people and that New York was evacuated. Hulk's absence from the 'Civil War', and then screaming for Iron Man + co probably helped considerably. (People figuring out what was going on).

Doomsday is going to show no such concern.

Doomsday is going to start attacking people, left, right and center, as he does in DC. That's going to let everyone know he's just a powerful killer. He's not after vengance/justice like the Hulk was. He's after destruction like Onslaught (more or less) was.

As heroes (and villians) get their asses handed to them physically, mental powers will be tried.

If they are not successful, or limited, they are going to call in reinforcements.

In Marvel, this can include several Intergalactic Empires, cosmic beings of incredible power, and alot of other stuff that makes the resources of the Justice League look pathetic by comparison.

[Grasscutter]

So are we to assume that Guy Gardner is a moron? His ring should allow him to telekinetic lift objects but he never tied it on Doomsday. So either it doesnt work, or Guy got himself whacked before he thought to try it. Beyond that I cannot of anyone lse that fought Doomsday the first time around that had that ability.

Not necessarily a moron, but not necessarily that bright, either. What DID hey try against Doomsday? It's been so long I don't remember. I can seem him just trying to knock Doomsday out, which would not be particularly successful, and getting smacked down himself before he tried any other approaches.

A Marvel teke might make the same mistake, of course, but in his first appearance, it would certainly seem feasible to neutralize Doomsday by keeping him from getting into contact with anything he could use for leverage or throw.

Do Lanterns (and telekinetics) fly by manipulating their mass (ala Starman or Light Lass from the Legion of Super Heroes), or do they lift themselves with a force field/physical bubble like the Invisible Woman? I always assumed it was the later given the way Lanterns and Marvel telekinetics are usually illustrated with a visible bubble around their bodies in flight.

[Ted C]

Do Lanterns (and telekinetics) fly by manipulating their mass (ala Starman or Light Lass from the Legion of Super Heroes), or do they lift themselves with a force field/physical bubble like the Invisible Woman? I always assumed it was the later given the way Lanterns and Marvel telekinetics are usually illustrated with a visible bubble around their bodies in flight.

Tekes that fly presumably do so by either lifting themselves or pushing themselves away from the Earth. Even if it were a bubble, I don't see how it would matter, since such bubbles can be made rather elastic, so Doomsday wouldn't be able to use his full strength against them.

[Galvatron]

What if he were dropped in the middle of the Hudson River? How much damage can he do when immersed in ~200 feet of water?

[Bilbo]

What if he were dropped in the middle of the Hudson River? How much damage can he do when immersed in ~200 feet of water?

Very little. But he will sink like a stone then slowly walk his way back to the shore where he will come out still very angry. If he hits a spot of the riverbed hard enough he may jump out. Unless I am remembering wrong Dommsday could do a similar Hulk high-speed jumping form of travel.

[Galvatron]

I'm assuming that the heroes will do more than wait for him to emerge. Hopefully Namor will be available to keep him occupied underwater. Others like Iron Man should be able to quickly follow him to the deep and continue pummelling him with his repulsors, etc.

[Rye]

Juggernaut will fail miserably as he got his ass handed to him in the DC Vs. Marvel by Mullet Superman.

I guess Juggernaut would fail miserably against Venom, too. Juggz at his strongest is appropriately stupid-strong with meaningless "dimension smashing" type stuff and can persevere through all sorts of silliness. He's a monumentally bad choice to fight doomsday, though, since he doesn't do much more than smash things.

The only two that I can think of that could at least go head to head is the Hulk (when mad enough) and Sentry (don't know much about him other than understanding that he is very powerful).

You don't really even need those. Just find one of the heroes that can make teleportation windows and dump one under him and put the "out" window somewhere in space. Sure, it'll be annoying when the next villain or hapless scientist brings him back to Earth, but Doomsday is phenomenally easy to deal with with a couple of seconds of reasonable thought and the sorts of powers available. He can't fly faster than light, someone like the Silver Surfer ought to be able to pick him up and dump him in a gas giant or a black hole or Hell itself. Someone like Strange could dump him with Dormammu or Shuma-Gorath.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Strange may do it but then maybe not. He did not do anything other than try to summon a really big demon to kill World War Hulk. Which suggests that he cannot just send Doomsday to another dimension.

Strange "exiled" the Hulk by sending him to an alternate dimension (the Crossroads) once before, so it's not out of the question.

I think Reed suggest that Reed just drop Hulk into another dimension during WWH, but Strange refuses, on the grounds that they're responsible for everything then should try to deal with it instead of just lobbing him into some different dimension.

[Stark]

The whole reason they made up the pile of stupid juvenile garbage that was the Hunter/Prey backstory was because Doomsday is so non-threatening. He's a really tough guy on foot. If he's on your planet, and you live on the back of big tracked cities, you're fine. He can jump a bit and punch things; you could just leave him behind. He's a nigh-worthless enemy until they made up stupid crap like 'is internally homogenous' (even though the orginal fight was based around his eyes and bones) and 'evolution is something we don't understand'.

Talking about fighting him is stupid because he's written to be invincible by almost inconcievably lazy and uninspired writers, but his lack of any other abilities makes him easy to defeat. Imagine what Ostermann would do to him!

[Enigma]

Juggernaut will fail miserably as he got his ass handed to him in the DC Vs. Marvel by Mullet Superman.

I guess Juggernaut would fail miserably against Venom, too. Juggz at his strongest is appropriately stupid-strong with meaningless "dimension smashing" type stuff and can persevere through all sorts of silliness. He's a monumentally bad choice to fight doomsday, though, since he doesn't do much more than smash things.

The only two that I can think of that could at least go head to head is the Hulk (when mad enough) and Sentry (don't know much about him other than understanding that he is very powerful).

You don't really even need those. Just find one of the heroes that can make teleportation windows and dump one under him and put the "out" window somewhere in space. Sure, it'll be annoying when the next villain or hapless scientist brings him back to Earth, but Doomsday is phenomenally easy to deal with with a couple of seconds of reasonable thought and the sorts of powers available. He can't fly faster than light, someone like the Silver Surfer ought to be able to pick him up and dump him in a gas giant or a black hole or Hell itself. Someone like Strange could dump him with Dormammu or Shuma-Gorath.

I'm reading through the Death of Superman and Doomsday is stronger than you think.

Here's what I wrote down from reading DoS.
1)Reflexes\agility faster than Flash. (Booster Gold, "He's...faster than...Flash!")Multiple times showing Doomsday acting faster than Supes and JLA could react.
2)Stated that his jumping speed is at least one half the speed of sound.
3)Singlehandedly was able to stop a truck transport without being moved.
4)Resistant to fire.
5)Went through the JLA like a hot knife through butter.
6)Guy Gardner "So fast I didn't see him mo-" (confirming DD superspeed)
7)Able to withstand a fully charged Bloodwynd(Martian Manhunter with the Blood Gem) (with the Blood Gem, he can use the plasma energies of the dead to charge himself)
7a) A side note, while googling the abilities of Bloodwynd, a wiki article mentions that he has the same type of ability as Ghost Rider's Penance Stare.
8 )DD is unharmed by the combined range powers of Booster Gold, Fire, Bloodwynd, Guy Gardner, and Superman.
9)Superman throws DD into a lake but few panels later is shown to jump out from the lake and takes out an attack chopper.
10)Gas station explodes knocking out Supes and Maxima(she gets a severe concussion) while DD is not harmed.
11)Unaffected to being thrown into a hill at a speed that is stated to be "few hundred miles an hour".
12)DD's reflexes\agility prevents Superman from sending DD into space.
13)Reading DD's mind, Dubbilex says"There is nothing in his mind but anger - no thought but destruction." This confirms Maxima's scan. "He's hate, death and blood lust personified! Nothing more."
14)Because DD can only jump not fly, Supes tried to keep him off balance by keeping him off the ground but fails due to DD's speed\agility.
15)Superman has trouble keeping up to DD's speed\agility\relexes.

I can think of several Marvel teams that would fail if not be completely steamrolled by Doomsday. To beat DD, two key things need to be overcome in order to stand a chance of defeating DD. One is that Superman surmises that if he coud keep him off the ground that he would have an advantage. But to do that one needs the second key which is speed\agility to match or surpass Doomsday. That is not easy as he is been stated to be faster than Flash.

DD gets even more wanked later on and basically becomes a Super Saiyan as he gets stronger after each encounter. Also he a bit like the Borg, what worked the first time will not work the second time around.

[The Yosemite Bear]

you know on the list of people we've never seen fight Doomsday, I wonder why no one paid the Main Man to take care of him?

[Solauren]

Maybe Lobo found out he wasted Supes and went 'no way, bitzh!"

[Enigma]

you know on the list of people we've never seen fight Doomsday, I wonder why no one paid the Main Man to take care of him?

Supes did mention Lobo but he even said that Doomsday was much worse.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I could just imagine someone telling Lobo that Doomsday was a threat to his beloved fishies....

Chain space harley, tow to nearest singularity....

[Praxis]

Thor could probably fight fairly with Doomsday, though Doomsday'd probably win in the end.

Hulk could potentially beat Doomsday if he got mad enough...but Doomsday outspeeds him.

Sentry would probably beat Doomsday.

The Fantastic Four might come up with some technobabble solution to defeat him; otherwise, they'd only slow him down.

Spider-Man would be able to avoid getting instantly killed thanks to Spider-Sense, but he really couldn't do anything to actually hurt Doomsday.

Iron Man's Hulkbuster armor could potentially hurt Doomsday too, but I think Doomsday'd win.

Put all of the Avengers together, and Doomsday loses. Only question is how much of New York gets nuked in the process.

Also, Professor X could probably just mentally control Doomsday, considering his animal nature and lack of intelligence.

[Stark]

The idea that Doomsday is as fast as Flash is retarded; he's never shown again doing anything remotely as fast. He might have very quick reflexes, but can anyone prove he moves quickly? Maybe he just CHOOSES to move slow most of the time because he watched so many Friday the 13th movies as a kid. Maybe he was killed by 'slow' once and now he's 'immune to slow'.

Hey Praxis, can you actually discuss anything? Saying 'Sentry could probably beat Doomsday' is a totally worthless unsupported statement. Your gut-feeling analysis is entertaining reading only, if that.

[Ford Prefect]

While discussing comic abilities is silly because of how wildly variable they are, I distinctly remember Doctor Strange going toe-to-toe with Adam Warlock casually playing around with the Infinity Gauntlet. He could stalemate each individual Infinity Gem, which is so much more than enough to to deal with a guy with 'fast reflexes', 'can stop a truck' and 'can jump at half the speed of sound'.

[Havok]

OK. Current Marvel Vs Death of Supes Doomsday.

No one Earth based hero or villain can beat Doomsday. It would take cooperation.

Ghost Rider needs a conscience for his Penance Stare to work on. Something which Galactus has, that DD does not.

The Hulk was been knocked out by Iron Man in his Mark IV armor. DD can deliver a strong enough blow to take Hulk out before he starts building up "HULK SMASH!" rage.

Dr. Strange and Dr. Doom would both just teleport him somewhere, but neither has the ability to beat him physically.

Juggernaut would be able to stand his ground as far as being moved, but he also has been beaten by the Hulk and IIRC Thor, and DD far outclasses either of them. Juggs would not be able to take the beating and would either lose or retreat.

Professor X is powerless as DD doesn't have a brain as far as what X can work with.

Sebastian Shaw, The White King, is able to absorb kinetic impact and channel them into his own strength and blows, however this power has been shown to have been overloaded or maxed out. He also still suffers damage, and like with "HULK RAGE" ho would probably be taken out before he could build up enough to deliver a significant blow. Plus the fact that he would have to keep "reloading" after each punch he threw.

Namor, perhaps one of the physically strongest of the non-gods of the Earth based heroes, may have the best chance. I can't recall him every being beaten into submission, although, I'm pretty positive it has happened. He also wouldn't wait and yapp his mouth allowing DD to get the drop on him.

Sentry, would just toss him into the sun if he could, assuming he doesn't have some sort of mental break down which is ridiculously easy to produce.

Tech wise, Richards and Stark would get together and devise some gadgets that could probably kill DD. They have been shown to not resort to killing in the past, but once the likes of Ben Grimm, Captain America, Colossus and others were corpses scattered around NY, they would change their tune.

As for the Gods like Thor, Hercules and Ares, they are all Superman types and would probably fair the same against DD as he did. However, the Gods would join forces for certain, and they may have a chance to take down DD.

Off Earth, the strongest non-cosmic heroes are Superman types like Gladiator. They could fight DD just as Supes did, but with probably the same outcome. Cosmic wise, any number of them could do something to either kill, incapacitate or remove DD from NY. Including the repowered Silver Surfer.

As far as the Nova Corp, unless they have reconstituted since Annihilation, there is only one left.

Basically, even though Marvel has always been more "GRIMDARK", they don't have heartless mass murdering villains like DC does, so they have never really had to go that final length to win battles. Even with people like Doom and Magneto, who have killed hundreds, if not thousands, they will try to place them on trial. An enemy like DD opens up new avenues, if you will, to the MU heroes, where they wouldn't have to hold back, but it would still take a large effort and many MU heroes would be bug splatter on sky scrappers before they figured that out.

[SylasGaunt]

No one Earth based hero or villain can beat Doomsday. It would take cooperation.

I beg to differ provided one tries solutions beyond punching/blasting/kapowing.

Sentry, would just toss him into the sun if he could, assuming he doesn't have some sort of mental break down which is ridiculously easy to produce.

That sounds rather like one hero beating him.

As for the Gods like Thor, Hercules and Ares, they are all Superman types and would probably fair the same against DD as he did. However, the Gods would join forces for certain, and they may have a chance to take down DD.

Thor/Beta Ray Bill could manage it. Bill is capable of some truly stupendous feats of power when he's pissed and Thor's supposed to be on level (or possibly stronger, did he get a power up after Ragnarok?)

As far as the Nova Corp, unless they have reconstituted since Annihilation, there is only one left.

That's started. There's a bunch of them on Earth (IIRC in Jersey) at the moment, one of which is a cousin of Fin fang foom's, and Centurion Ego just dropped in to report. Using Gravimetrics to just lift Doomsday up and throw him down the nearest black hole or off the edge of the universe should work fine.

[lance]

.

As for the Gods like Thor, Hercules and Ares, they are all Superman types and would probably fair the same against DD as he did. However, the Gods would join forces for certain, and they may have a chance to take down DD.

Thor might have a chance, but could also drop him into elf land something.

As far as the Nova Corp, unless they have reconstituted since Annihilation, there is only one left.

They are back and based in New Jersey. Members include Fin Fang Fooms little cousin and Ego, the planet centurion.

[Ted C]

I'd forgotten about Doomsday's speed (described in the original Death of Superman storyline, but not addressed much after, from what little I know). That would be a problem for a lot of Marvel heroes, although they're not exactly living in a speedster-free world.

I think a TK attack would still be the most effective. Lacking any independent flight ability, Doomsday will be pretty harmless if you keep him off the ground and out of reach of anything he might throw. Even superspeed wouldn't matter much at that point. From there, you just need to figure out how to move him to someplace that he can't do any harm.

[lance]

I think a TK attack would still be the most effective. Lacking any independent flight ability, Doomsday will be pretty harmless if you keep him off the ground and out of reach of anything he might throw. Even superspeed wouldn't matter much at that point. From there, you just need to figure out how to move him to someplace that he can't do any harm.

Can Doomsday do a "Hulk clap" and hit people with shock waves?

[Enigma]

Even Supes stated that to get an advantage over DD, you need to keep him off the ground. Supes tried but everytime he did that, DD would be too fast\agile\strong for him to succeed. I found it weird after reading DoS that many of the DC superheroes were not there. I mean Hal should've been able to levitate DD off the ground and let others pummel him. Flash, WW, Batman were nowhere to be seen. In fact the only heavy hitters that DC used to fight DD were Superman, Bloodwynd, Guy Gardner and Maxima. The rest were third rate superheroes at best. I'm pretty sure that if all of the heavy hitters were there then the first DD encounter could've been the last.

[Bilbo]

Even Supes stated that to get an advantage over DD, you need to keep him off the ground. Supes tried but everytime he did that, DD would be too fast\agile\strong for him to succeed. I found it weird after reading DoS that many of the DC superheroes were not there. I mean Hal should've been able to levitate DD off the ground and let others pummel him. Flash, WW, Batman were nowhere to be seen. In fact the only heavy hitters that DC used to fight DD were Superman, Bloodwynd, Guy Gardner and Maxima. The rest were third rate superheroes at best. I'm pretty sure that if all of the heavy hitters were there then the first DD encounter could've been the last.

Anything that Hal could have done Gardner could have done as well. Flash would have been toast. One hit and dead, sure DD may never hit him but Flash cannot hit DD anywhere near hard enough to hurt DD. Hell, Flash may hurt himself trying to hit DD hard enough to hurt him. Batman might be in the same situation, without prep time what is Bats going to do to DD.

Why were the rest of them not around? Probably because Supes, Gardner, Maxima, and Bloodwynd were there. They are all pretty heavy hitters. How often is there a problem too strong for the 4 of them to handle.

BTW, the rest of the crew that was there was Fire, Ice, Blue Beatle, and Booster Gold.

[Galvatron]

I think a TK attack would still be the most effective. Lacking any independent flight ability, Doomsday will be pretty harmless if you keep him off the ground and out of reach of anything he might throw. Even superspeed wouldn't matter much at that point. From there, you just need to figure out how to move him to someplace that he can't do any harm.

Can Doomsday do a "Hulk clap" and hit people with shock waves?

I'm sure he can. The question is what good will it do him if he's levitated far enough away from any solid object for it to be effective? Can he use it to propel himself through the air?