The 300 vs. Dawn of the Dead

[General Zod]

Would the Spartans be able to fight them in shifts during the day? Maybe have 100 Spartans fight while the other 200 rest/eat, giving them 3 fighting shifts. This might at least be possible once the bodies start to pile up, giving the Spartans defensive structures to work with and slowing down the zombie horde considerably.

This was already addressed. Unless you timed things very carefully you would have a good deal of your fighting forces worn out by the end of the day when night hits, screwing you over that much quicker.

[lance]

Do we have any numbers on the Persian army?

[starfury]

Do we have any numbers on the Persian army?

Well in 300 They Deliberately Exaggerate to 1 Million, So You get One million zombies, who have all the advantages of being undead, unless you truly think the Spartan Slow-mo Powers equates to a character shield that would make Ripped shirt Kirk seemed weak by comparsion.

[Revan's Fire]

If they simply backed into a corner, and stabbed at heads frantically, I find it very hard to believe that any horde of zombies could overcome the combined phalanx and sol-mo nakedness of the 300. If they came out into an open field, it might be more of a problem, but I doubt the zombies are intelligent enough to maneuver the 300 into that situation.

[General Zod]

If they simply backed into a corner, and stabbed at heads frantically, I find it very hard to believe that any horde of zombies could overcome the combined phalanx and sol-mo nakedness of the 300. If they came out into an open field, it might be more of a problem, but I doubt the zombies are intelligent enough to maneuver the 300 into that situation.

The hoard doesn't have to beat the Spartans through tactics. Simply being able to pile body on top of body around them would be sufficient to drown them and make them immobile. (We're talking thousands of relentless, tireless zombies here, after all . . .).

[Revan's Fire]

If they simply backed into a corner, and stabbed at heads frantically, I find it very hard to believe that any horde of zombies could overcome the combined phalanx and sol-mo nakedness of the 300. If they came out into an open field, it might be more of a problem, but I doubt the zombies are intelligent enough to maneuver the 300 into that situation.

The hoard doesn't have to beat the Spartans through tactics. Simply being able to pile body on top of body around them would be sufficient to drown them and make them immobile. (We're talking thousands of relentless, tireless zombies here, after all . . .).

Having never seen DotD, I'll take your word for it, but in the movie are there zombies piling up on each other to get through a door? Or is it the typical all shambling towards one general target area? Because unless they're actively climbing over each other in the movie, I see no reason why they would climb over dead bodies.

[General Zod]

Having never seen DotD, I'll take your word for it, but in the movie are there zombies piling up on each other to get through a door? Or is it the typical all shambling towards one general target area? Because unless they're actively climbing over each other in the movie, I see no reason why they would climb over dead bodies.

Dawn of the Dead zombies move at regular human speed, and they climb over fences to get at their victims. There's no reason to believe they wouldn't be perfectly capable of climbing over a pile of corpses to get at Spartans who don't have the luxury of shotguns.

[Duckie]

In DotD Remake, while not as insane as 28 Days Later, the Zombies will run, jump, and clamber over obstacles clumsily but with good speed compared to human beings. So making a waist high wall won't stop them unlike the average Romero Zombie.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Dawn of the Dead zombies move at regular human speed, and they climb over fences to get at their victims. There's no reason to believe they wouldn't be perfectly capable of climbing over a pile of corpses to get at Spartans who don't have the luxury of shotguns.

In DotD Remake, while not as insane as 28 Days Later, the Zombies will run, jump, and clamber over obstacles clumsily but with good speed compared to human beings. So making a waist high wall won't stop them unlike the average Romero Zombie.

Slight nitpick: DotD remake zombies have been shown to run fast. But they have never actually jumped or climbed over any objects. In fact there are quite a few situations where doing so would have enabled them to easily reach tasty humans and yet they didn't (Like when THE ENTIRE MALL PARKING LOT was full of zombies, yet they didn't pile on each other to reach the roof, which would have not only been relatively easy, given the height, but a natural result of mindless mob-action). I think it's safe to assume that they can't actually climb or jump.

Anyways, I'm giving this one to the Spartans.

Basically you're taking the Persians, a well-armed, well trained cohesive force under unified leadership that uses armor, short-range weapons, reach weapons, archer-support, seige artillery, cavalry, and fucking ELEPHANTS who only barely beat the Spartans...and replacing them with an equivalent number of 'soldiers' who are unarmed, unarmored, incapable of tactics, who are slightly more physically durable (though even that's debatable, considering their lack of armor), and whose main attack is 'run at enemy and bite them'.

It's been pointed out in nearly every goddamn zombie-vs. thread: Zombies *suck* as an army. Spartans take this, easily.

[General Zod]

Slight nitpick: DotD remake zombies have been shown to run fast. But they have never actually jumped or climbed over any objects. In fact there are quite a few situations where doing so would have enabled them to easily reach tasty humans and yet they didn't (Like when THE ENTIRE MALL PARKING LOT was full of zombies, yet they didn't pile on each other to reach the roof, which would have not only been relatively easy, given the height, but a natural result of mindless mob-action). I think it's safe to assume that they can't actually climb or jump.

I'm pretty sure there was a scene involving the zombies attempting to climb over razor wire fence to get at the characters trapped on top of some van with shotguns. As far as the piling on goes, I'm referencing to climbing what would be the result of the Spartans efforts of hacking away after several hours (piled up corpses).

Basically you're taking the Persians, a well-armed, well trained cohesive force under unified leadership that uses armor, short-range weapons, reach weapons, archer-support, seige artillery, cavalry, and fucking ELEPHANTS who only barely beat the Spartans...and replacing them with an equivalent number of 'soldiers' who are unarmed, unarmored, incapable of tactics, who are slightly more physically durable (though even that's debatable, considering their lack of armor), and whose main attack is 'run at enemy and bite them'.

It's been pointed out in nearly every goddamn zombie-vs. thread: Zombies *suck* as an army. Spartans take this, easily.

Spartans have no armor and their weaponry is primitive. Given that DotD zombies can survive gunshots to various extremities except the brains, they'd need pinpoint accuracy every time they want to kill one. Unless I'm not mistaken, the Spartans are trained to aim for the body and other easy to pierce vital spots, as opposed to the head. It's questionable how effective their swords would be in this, though their spears might be somewhat more useful with a lot of luck.

Also, when we see the Spartans clashing head on with the Persians, they're putting a lot of physical effort into simply repelling them and driving them back. The zombies won't die from a stab to the chest or the neck, so they'll be constantly pushing forward while the Spartans are trying to get a shot in. Not exactly the best situation to be in.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I'm pretty sure there was a scene involving the zombies attempting to climb over razor wire fence to get at the characters trapped on top of some van with shotguns.

The scene in question, the van had pretty much driven into a sea of zombies. Instead of tipping the van over, or climbing up its sides, or climbing over each other and simply burying the van underneath them, they just sort of of massed around it and shook it a little. Some got pushed a little ways up the side by the mass behind them, but *none* climbed on top. Later, while the van was moving again, there was one still on the side, but that one wasn't climbing, merely hanging on.

Spartans have no armor and their weaponry is primitive. Given that DotD zombies can survive gunshots to various extremities except the brains, they'd need pinpoint accuracy every time they want to kill one. Unless I'm not mistaken, the Spartans are trained to aim for the body and other easy to pierce vital spots, as opposed to the head. It's questionable how effective their swords would be in this, though their spears might be somewhat more useful with a lot of luck.

The problem is we're not dealing with historical Spartans here. We're dealing with 300 Spartans with superhero-level strength, speed, endurance and reaction times, who can magically swordfight a million-man Persian army to a standstill. This necessarily entails the ability to avoid dozens of incoming spears, swords and arrows at once while delivering aimed, fatal strikes to two or three opponents a second over the course of any given battle.

The OP states that Leonidas knows the zombies' weak spot. Now replaced trained, armed and armored Persians with a bunch of unarmored, weaponless corpses who are about as fast, have no cover-fire or skills, and no team-work other than mob-rushes, and they'll cut through them five times easier, just making their aimed shots at the head rather than in any chinks in the armor.

Also, when we see the Spartans clashing head on with the Persians, they're putting a lot of physical effort into simply repelling them and driving them back. The zombies won't die from a stab to the chest or the neck, so they'll be constantly pushing forward while the Spartans are trying to get a shot in. Not exactly the best situation to be in.

Even when they cut through the Persian's front line, the mass behind them continued pushing the corpses forward. The Spartans had to, essentially, push back the entirety of any Persian charge many times their size. There's no appreciable difference between this and an undead charge except that the undead have no weapons or armor, and no archer-fire covering them. Remember, the Spartans *know* their weak-spot before hand, and obviously are well-trained enough to hit them by the movie's standards.

[General Zod]

The problem is we're not dealing with historical Spartans here. We're dealing with 300 Spartans with superhero-level strength, speed, endurance and reaction times, who can magically swordfight a million-man Persian army to a standstill. This necessarily entails the ability to avoid dozens of incoming spears, swords and arrows at once while delivering aimed, fatal strikes to two or three opponents a second over the course of any given battle.

Did you see them going for specific parts of the body when they were being bummed rushed, or the most convenient part of the body to strike? I didn't see anything that suggests they'd have precision aim every single time they strike in the movie.

The OP states that Leonidas knows the zombies' weak spot. Now replaced trained, armed and armored Persians with a bunch of unarmored, weaponless corpses who are about as fast, have no cover-fire or skills, and no team-work other than mob-rushes, and they'll cut through them five times easier, just making their aimed shots at the head rather than in any chinks in the armor.

Armed and armored? Did we watch the same movie? Most of the Persians weren't wearing much more than cloth tunics or heavy robes, very light armor at the best, that didn't do much good against their spears.

Even when they cut through the Persian's front line, the mass behind them continued pushing the corpses forward. The Spartans had to, essentially, push back the entirety of any Persian charge many times their size. There's no appreciable difference between this and an undead charge except that the undead have no weapons or armor, and no archer-fire covering them. Remember, the Spartans *know* their weak-spot before hand, and obviously are well-trained enough to hit them by the movie's standards.

The undead don't need archer-fire though. Since there's only one way to kill them, any other wounds that happen to get them (like the Persians) won't affect them, and they're not going to relent in their onward charge by anything other than a straight blow to the head. How many times did we see the Persians relent to regroup again? Call me skeptical in the Spartan's ability to consistently land a solid blow to the head every single time while they have undead clawing at them from every possible angle. This isn't an enemy that's just going to back up after seeing a number of their troops mowed down, they'll just keep coming.

[CDiehl]

We're dealing with 300 Spartans with superhero-level strength, speed, endurance and reaction times, who can magically swordfight a million-man Persian army to a standstill.

Why does that matter? Their strength and stamina will eventually fade as the hours of constant hacking, slashing and stab add up. Their speed and reaction time will not be sufficient to dismember the flailing limbs of a zombie in the midst of constant battle (a zombie might be beatable by chopping apart every joint of every limb and the jaw, but all that effort would take down one zombie). Their weapons, being iron and not steel, will grow dull and break after hours of being constantly driven against bone and cartilage rather than flesh.

The zombies, unlike the Persians, are not attacking sporadically in single units, giving the Spartans time to recover between fights; they are driving their entire million against the 300 from dawn to dusk. Depsite the Spartans' great strength and skill, they just aren't capable of constantly swinging weapons and maneuvering for 10 or 12 hours at a stretch; I doubt anybody could do that. The zombies, also unlike the Persians, will not be intimidated by any losses they suffer, nor will they retreat or surrender. Even the Spartans' legendary courage will not stand up to the mental strain of fighting the seemingly endless, implacable horde before them. In addition, the sight of their comrades killed, then either eaten on the spot or becoming zombies and attacking them, not to mention the horrid appearance of the zombies, will break their resolve. Anyone capable of outrunning the horde will turn and bolt, until they wear out and the steady march of the undead overtakes them.

[Molyneux]

Call me skeptical in the Spartan's ability to consistently land a solid blow to the head every single time while they have undead clawing at them from every possible angle. This isn't an enemy that's just going to back up after seeing a number of their troops mowed down, they'll just keep coming.

They'll have zombies coming at them from precisely one angle - the front. That's what a 'choke point' is all about.

Seriously, though, it would be much smarter for the Spartans to just build a wall and then chuck rocks and spears down at the zombies. They could hold 'em that way for as long as the food supply lasted.

[General Zod]

They'll have zombies coming at them from precisely one angle - the front. That's what a 'choke point' is all about.

Until the zombies get a few bites in and start turning their members into the undead.

Seriously, though, it would be much smarter for the Spartans to just build a wall and then chuck rocks and spears down at the zombies. They could hold 'em that way for as long as the food supply lasted.

This is the same group that went into battle against the Persians with no armor except a helmet. Thinking is not their strong point.

[Jason]

Would the Spartans be able to fight them in shifts during the day? Maybe have 100 Spartans fight while the other 200 rest/eat, giving them 3 fighting shifts. This might at least be possible once the bodies start to pile up, giving the Spartans defensive structures to work with and slowing down the zombie horde considerably.

This was already addressed. Unless you timed things very carefully you would have a good deal of your fighting forces worn out by the end of the day when night hits, screwing you over that much quicker.

I'm not talking about a 24/7 round the clock fighting force (as was talked about earlier in the thread with the Spartans killing zombies at night) I'm talking about during the daylight hours the Spartans fight in shifts. 100-150 hold off the zombie horde while the remainder rest and eat. They can switch off every couple hours. Once the bodies pile up and form natural obstructions this would be easier I'd think.

I'm not up to speed on ancient warfare so I don't know how feasible this is though. That and the Spartans might still wear down.

[Molyneux]

They'll have zombies coming at them from precisely one angle - the front. That's what a 'choke point' is all about.

Until the zombies get a few bites in and start turning their members into the undead.

Seriously, though, it would be much smarter for the Spartans to just build a wall and then chuck rocks and spears down at the zombies. They could hold 'em that way for as long as the food supply lasted.

This is the same group that went into battle against the Persians with no armor except a helmet. Thinking is not their strong point.

...except that the first thing they did in the movie was to build a wall. They know about zombie bites and their eventual effects. They're going to build a wall.

[Jason]

This is the same group that went into battle against the Persians with no armor except a helmet. Thinking is not their strong point.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they did think enough to build a wall of dead bodies in the movie didn't they?

[General Zod]

...except that the first thing they did in the movie was to build a wall. They know about zombie bites and their eventual effects. They're going to build a wall.

The wall didn't prevent the majority of Persians from charging them, it just bottlenecked them more. Besides, if they go into battle as they did in the movie (nearly naked), they will lose some members to the zombie hoard.

[Alferd Packer]

Assuming the Spartans can't build natural barriers immediately, why not modify their phalanx? Set three ranks to handle their shields only. The first rank would hold their shields on the ground(perhaps kneeling behind them). The second would hold overlap their shields slightly above the first rank, bracing against them with their shoulder. The third rank is concerned wholly with bracing the first and second ranks. The fourth rank is armed only with spears and is what does the killing. Aspises were generally anywhere from 32 to 40 inches in diameter, and even accounting for the overlap, this should make a pretty complete shield wall.

You'd probably run the risk of a zombie grabbing the edge of a shield and trying to rip out of place. To counter this, you could drench the outer surfaces of the shields with oil (or Spartan manjuice), so that the zombies can't get a solid grip. This would also prevent them from climbing over the shield wall, as their hands and feet would simply slip off.

The main advantage to this is that now the spear-wielding Spartans can use both hands when thrusting, thus improving their accuracy and power. By depending upon others for shielding, their potential for killing is improved. Unfortunately, this tactic is probably pretty last-ditch, because if the shield wall fails in any one spot, the zombies will be able to break the whole thing in short order.

[Molyneux]

...except that the first thing they did in the movie was to build a wall. They know about zombie bites and their eventual effects. They're going to build a wall.

The wall didn't prevent the majority of Persians from charging them, it just bottlenecked them more. Besides, if they go into battle as they did in the movie (nearly naked), they will lose some members to the zombie hoard.

Zombie horde. And given that the Spartans know that they're not fighting human enemies, I'd think even they would err on the side of caution. The OP doesn't make clear whether they know the effects of even a single bite, but if they did they would have to be insane to actually try to fight zombies hand-to-hand - especially when we've seen them build a wall before.

[General Zod]

Zombie horde. And given that the Spartans know that they're not fighting human enemies, I'd think even they would err on the side of caution. The OP doesn't make clear whether they know the effects of even a single bite, but if they did they would have to be insane to actually try to fight zombies hand-to-hand - especially when we've seen them build a wall before.

Who said anything about hand to hand? Since this is the same scenario, they'll still be limited on their building materials and weapons unless you're going to magically give them more than they had to use in the movie, and they aren't going to have full body armor unless again you give them more than what they had the ability to bring or used. (They can't really carry enough building material for that big of a gap from the city on their own in the time allotted.)

[Molyneux]

Zombie horde. And given that the Spartans know that they're not fighting human enemies, I'd think even they would err on the side of caution. The OP doesn't make clear whether they know the effects of even a single bite, but if they did they would have to be insane to actually try to fight zombies hand-to-hand - especially when we've seen them build a wall before.

Who said anything about hand to hand? Since this is the same scenario, they'll still be limited on their building materials and weapons unless you're going to magically give them more than they had to use in the movie, and they aren't going to have full body armor unless again you give them more than what they had the ability to bring or used. (They can't really carry enough building material for that big of a gap from the city on their own in the time allotted.)

I wouldn't magically give them anything - but they had enough rocks in the film to make a wall. It seems reasonable they'd build a wall against a zombie foe.

[General Zod]

I wouldn't magically give them anything - but they had enough rocks in the film to make a wall. It seems reasonable they'd build a wall against a zombie foe.

The rocks/bodies in the film weren't enough to blockade the entire pass. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a need to form a phalanx against the remaining Persians.

[Nephtys]

I wouldn't magically give them anything - but they had enough rocks in the film to make a wall. It seems reasonable they'd build a wall against a zombie foe.

The rocks/bodies in the film weren't enough to blockade the entire pass. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a need to form a phalanx against the remaining Persians.

The Persians had the equipment and techniques to demolish any physical wall. That's what the elephants and explosives were for.

Zombies? Not nearly as smart. The movie depicted the opening for the pass as only a hundred feet wide or so. Close enough that 300 people could span it, while being several ranks deep.