Xander vs Wash

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2005-08-15 07:06pm

Let's face it, these guys are both Joss Whedon. The question here is, which one does it better? Xander from Buffy, or Wash from Firefly?

It's a hard choice for me. I like Xander in the first few seasons, but not in the last two. He never seemed the same after the wedding episode. Wash isn't as prominent, but he had a few good lines. Plus, he actually had a valuable skill other than wisecracking.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-08-15 07:09pm

I dunno. Xander's carpentryis very useful for repairing things after they fall appart -- which is something he's pretty good at (or at least tries to).

But, yeah. For me it's to tough to call.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-08-15 07:11pm

Xander does have his conviently half-remembered military skills and can operate a mean wrecking ball.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-08-15 08:13pm

Wash. He's a good pilot and stayed that way. He's isn't the best fighter but didn't become the total joke that Xander became.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2005-08-16 05:55pm

neoolong wrote:Wash. He's a good pilot and stayed that way. He's isn't the best fighter but didn't become the total joke that Xander became.

He also didn't have 6 years in which to become a joke. It's kind of hard for a character to do that in only thirteen episodes.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-08-16 08:12pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
neoolong wrote:Wash. He's a good pilot and stayed that way. He's isn't the best fighter but didn't become the total joke that Xander became.
He also didn't have 6 years in which to become a joke. It's kind of hard for a character to do that in only thirteen episodes.

True. But in the episodes, however limited, he didn't become a joke.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-08-16 10:33pm

I don't think he ended up as a Joke. if your definition of Joke is that he was not as effective in combat, I counter that with the fact that Xander is the only one who has anything even remotly resembling a normal, supernatural-free life. And given all that's happened to him, that's quite an accomplisment.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-08-17 01:16am

Majin Gojira wrote:I don't think he ended up as a Joke. if your definition of Joke is that he was not as effective in combat, I counter that with the fact that Xander is the only one who has anything even remotly resembling a normal, supernatural-free life. And given all that's happened to him, that's quite an accomplisment.

I think that out of all the major characters who lived, including the ones that became major characters in Season 7, he gets the worst deal even though he's probably pretty high up on the good side of things. Andrew makes out better than Xander does. Andrew, a pretty unrepentant weak little man who was going to rape a girl, and who kills his best friend, gets a better deal at the end than Xander. When that happens, I think that the character is considered a joke.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2005-08-17 08:25am

I really don't understand where you're coming from, could you please elaborate?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-08-17 12:51pm

Majin Gojira wrote:I really don't understand where you're coming from, could you please elaborate?

When all is said and done, the show is fairly conventional in some ways. The good guys win over the bad guys and end up getting some type of reward, much of the time, and the bad guys get their comeuppance.

So the end of the series, and extended to Angel to know the fates of some of the characters in Buffy you see what happens to different characters.

Buffy gets a "normal" life in Rome with a new boyfriend. Dawn is also in Rome and would seem to be okay. Giles is now the head of the organization that had previously fired him and where he wasn't all that high up when he did work for it. Faith is free and has a new guy in Robin. Robin has Faith and presumably wasn't crippled since his injuries didn't seem worse than things that other characters survived. Willow is now a powerful witch and has Kennedy. Spike gets to come back, and at the end of Angel may still have survived, if he was to be in the proposed Season 6. Andrew, instead of being jailed or having to pay for his crimes, instead gets to play James Bond and is going out with two beautiful women. And Xander, well Xander at least has his health. Wait, no he doesn't. He loses Anya, and he loses an eye. His reward for his actions it to lose the girl he kind of loves and to be maimed.

When you consider the various actions of these characters it also becomes a matter of what they deserve. Like I said before, the bad guys get what's coming to them and the good guys get rewarded. Pretty much all of the main characters get a reward, or at least stay at the status quo which isn't to bad in itself. Xander is the only one that is worse off, despite the fact that he is much more of a good guy, or at least didn't do as much evil as a number of the other characters. My point is that these are supposed to be the heroes, and you see everyone get something good except for him, even ones that are more undeserving than Xander is.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-08-17 12:55pm

Edit: Oh, and as for fighting, I do find it a bit odd that Cordelia and Harmony can pick up seemingly advanced fighting skills in 4 years, see the episode where Cordelia comes back in Season 4 and the Harmony episode in Season 5 of Angel, while Xander doesn't seem to be all that great, in fact he seems to get worse, compare "The Zeppo" to "The Initiative," and then make amazing shots with a bow like in the raid at vineyard.

Darth Sephiroth · Post by **Darth Sephiroth** » 2005-08-18 05:25pm

I agree, the later seasons seemed to turn Xander from an interesting character (My actual favorite character in the series) and turned him into the fool