Were the avengers wrong to kill the supreme intelligence
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Were the avengers wrong to kill the supreme intelligence
In the Avengers vol 1 #347 (Marvel) at the end of a marvel $ making 19 part x-over, certain avengers make the decision to kill the Supreme intelligence
To make a long story short, the Kree are making war with the Shi'ar. Earth naturally gets involve because stargates both races are using to transport ordinance to each others galaxy has a nasty habit of "destabilising our sun".
The Shi'ar win by deploying the "nega bomb", which wipes out >98% of life in the Kree home galaxy by spreading out some weird radiation.
We learn that this was all part of the Supreme Intelligence's convoluted plan to "evolve" the kree. Everyone knows in the Marvelverse if radiation doesn't kill you, you end up with super powers. (Except if you are Doctor Demonicus).
In any event, a debate ensures.
Captain America argues that the Supreme intelligence is "alive", so its automatically wrong to execute him. He also feels its should be dealt with by the Kree survivors.
The vision argues that the Supreme intelligence is artificial, destroying him would be no different than switching off a computer. The vision himself is an artificial being. Also its pretty obvious the Supreme intelligence is clearly sentient.
Iron Man finally leads a group of Avengers who attack the supreme intelligence, and when they get to his "brain", its apparent the supreme intelligence is partially organic. This doesn't stop Iron Man who earliar felt the Intelligence was just a computer.
At the end of the day, Cap decides to quit the Avengers over their action of playing judge, jury and executioner to a mass murderer who freely admitted he commited those crimes and showed no remorse.
So was it wrong for the Avengers to kill the intelligence, in terms of wrong in the act itself, or wrong in interfering with an affair for the Kree survivors?
To make a long story short, the Kree are making war with the Shi'ar. Earth naturally gets involve because stargates both races are using to transport ordinance to each others galaxy has a nasty habit of "destabilising our sun".
The Shi'ar win by deploying the "nega bomb", which wipes out >98% of life in the Kree home galaxy by spreading out some weird radiation.
We learn that this was all part of the Supreme Intelligence's convoluted plan to "evolve" the kree. Everyone knows in the Marvelverse if radiation doesn't kill you, you end up with super powers. (Except if you are Doctor Demonicus).
In any event, a debate ensures.
Captain America argues that the Supreme intelligence is "alive", so its automatically wrong to execute him. He also feels its should be dealt with by the Kree survivors.
The vision argues that the Supreme intelligence is artificial, destroying him would be no different than switching off a computer. The vision himself is an artificial being. Also its pretty obvious the Supreme intelligence is clearly sentient.
Iron Man finally leads a group of Avengers who attack the supreme intelligence, and when they get to his "brain", its apparent the supreme intelligence is partially organic. This doesn't stop Iron Man who earliar felt the Intelligence was just a computer.
At the end of the day, Cap decides to quit the Avengers over their action of playing judge, jury and executioner to a mass murderer who freely admitted he commited those crimes and showed no remorse.
So was it wrong for the Avengers to kill the intelligence, in terms of wrong in the act itself, or wrong in interfering with an affair for the Kree survivors?
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Wrong on neither counts. Sentient or not, it still killed billions, and showed no remorse. Maybe it might have been a bit more interesting if they'd neutralised to the point where the Kree could deal with it, but hell, I'd say killing it before it had the possibility to do it again is more than justifiable.
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It depends on who the superhero is and what scale they operate on.Jim Raynor wrote:I don't agree at all with this "real heroes don't kill" crap that's found in so many mainstream superhero comics.
For example, it's entirely right that Batman won't kill people, because the kind of rogues he deals with can be dealt with by a competent authority. (the bizarre lack of a death penalty, even in special cases, in DCU America is another matter, Joker should have gone to the chair years ago, whether Batman is a killer or not)
I had understood that most supervillains aren't executed because either they are determined to be mentally incompetent (e.g., the Joker) or conventional execution methods wouldn't kill them anyway (e.g., the Shade) or they have wealth/powerful connections that would prevent their being sentenced to death. That said, at least some states in DCU America certainly have the death penalty as there was a Spectre issue in which Corrigan loses control of the Spectre, who descends on a prison and exercises the wrath of God against many of the inmates, but spares the life of a man on "death row" because he knows the convict is innocent. The rest of the issue deals with the convict's attempt to obtain a pardon based on the theory that his innocence has been proven.Vendetta wrote:(the bizarre lack of a death penalty, even in special cases, in DCU America is another matter, Joker should have gone to the chair years ago, whether Batman is a killer or not)
Joker is legally insane. You can't kill the insane, that's why he goes to Arkham Asylum instead of some federal prison.Vendetta wrote:It depends on who the superhero is and what scale they operate on.Jim Raynor wrote:I don't agree at all with this "real heroes don't kill" crap that's found in so many mainstream superhero comics.
For example, it's entirely right that Batman won't kill people, because the kind of rogues he deals with can be dealt with by a competent authority. (the bizarre lack of a death penalty, even in special cases, in DCU America is another matter, Joker should have gone to the chair years ago, whether Batman is a killer or not)
Re: Were the avengers wrong to kill the supreme intelligence
My 2nd hand impression is that Captain America has never been that consistant about he considers "moral".
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Re: Were the avengers wrong to kill the supreme intelligence
Well, he is Captain America ....ggs wrote:My 2nd hand impression is that Captain America has never been that consistant about he considers "moral".
It wouldn't be very credible if everybody in a group the size of the Avengers had an identical philosophical viewpoint about execution.
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
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Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"
Operation Freedom Fry
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True, however, his history of repeated escapes and mass murder/attempted mass murder would argue that exceptions should be made.Superman wrote:Joker is legally insane. You can't kill the insane, that's why he goes to Arkham Asylum instead of some federal prison.
Joker can't be controlled by normal means, he either needs to be executed or lobotomised.
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Re: Were the avengers wrong to kill the supreme intelligence
He sort of changed his views after WWII after being frozen in ice for a few decades. My knowledge may be out of date, but he still subscribes to the "hero shouldn't kill" mentality.ggs wrote:My 2nd hand impression is that Captain America has never been that consistant about he considers "moral".
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
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Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
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Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
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Re: Were the avengers wrong to kill the supreme intelligence
Fuck you. His belief system and morals are rooted in the original ideals of America, not the beliefs of whoever is in the White House. The comic and Marvel have gotten heat for being critical of Bush and his policies.Chmee wrote:Well, he is Captain America ....ggs wrote:My 2nd hand impression is that Captain America has never been that consistant about he considers "moral".
It wouldn't be very credible if everybody in a group the size of the Avengers had an identical philosophical viewpoint about execution.
If the Supreme Intelligence had been put on trial (a formal one), found guilty and sentenced to death, then he would have had no problem. He feared what effect this unilateral action would have on the team. Would they use lethal force on all villains? Petty criminals? World leaders?
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Don't forget SI started a war, that very well could have destroyed Earth and all life on it. Both sides are right, but Cap quiting was uncalled for. One, you can bring him in to stand trial that way or have the team go and off him. It could really work both ways.
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Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am