X-Men vs JSA

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2005-01-29 03:38pm

All of them are current.

JSA:
Mr. Terrific
Green Lantern
The Flash
Dr. Fate
Hawkgirl
Dr. Mid-nite
Hourman
Wildcat
Sand
Power Girl
Stargirl

X-Men
Cyclops
Professor X
Jean Grey (with Phoenix)
Wolverine
Colossus
Kitty Pryde
Emma Frost
Nightcrawler
Beast
Archangel
Iceman

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2005-01-29 03:55pm

I believe we'd previously discussed the level of stomping that would occur with just a Green Lantern unleashed on the X-Men.

The entire JSA is a bit much for them, don't you think?

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2005-01-29 04:30pm

In the recent "Black Reign" story the JSA was subdued by a telepath. That's why I thought this matchup could work.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 04:52pm

Demiurge wrote:In the recent "Black Reign" story the JSA was subdued by a telepath. That's why I thought this matchup could work.

Given that also this was Mister Mind(able to easily convince cities of his non existence) and the other factor was the telepath in question was Henry King Jr, who after getting his enhancements formerly from his father(what drove him nuts in the first place) was capable of literally making the USA thinking he was dead for several years. I'd say Brainwave II(gods, what a fucking stupid name) is a bit out of Professor X league.

That and the power level are a bit disgusting given that on the JSA Side Flash and GL would handle 99% of the X-Men, the rest such as Power Girl is a sick and twisted topping on the cake.

Let alone Dr Fate. Gods...they get lucky if they don't end up as Chickens.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-01-29 05:19pm

Yeah, say buh bye to the X Men.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 05:20pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Demiurge wrote:In the recent "Black Reign" story the JSA was subdued by a telepath. That's why I thought this matchup could work.
Given that also this was Mister Mind(able to easily convince cities of his non existence) and the other factor was the telepath in question was Henry King Jr, who after getting his enhancements formerly from his father(what drove him nuts in the first place) was capable of literally making the USA thinking he was dead for several years. I'd say Brainwave II(gods, what a fucking stupid name) is a bit out of Professor X league.

That and the power level are a bit disgusting given that on the JSA Side Flash and GL would handle 99% of the X-Men, the rest such as Power Girl is a sick and twisted topping on the cake.

Let alone Dr Fate. Gods...they get lucky if they don't end up as Chickens.

I'm not up to the DC characters powers, care to list them please.
How would they meet up with Phoenix?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:27pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Demiurge wrote:In the recent "Black Reign" story the JSA was subdued by a telepath. That's why I thought this matchup could work.
Given that also this was Mister Mind(able to easily convince cities of his non existence) and the other factor was the telepath in question was Henry King Jr, who after getting his enhancements formerly from his father(what drove him nuts in the first place) was capable of literally making the USA thinking he was dead for several years. I'd say Brainwave II(gods, what a fucking stupid name) is a bit out of Professor X league.

That and the power level are a bit disgusting given that on the JSA Side Flash and GL would handle 99% of the X-Men, the rest such as Power Girl is a sick and twisted topping on the cake.

Let alone Dr Fate. Gods...they get lucky if they don't end up as Chickens.
I'm not up to the DC characters powers, care to list them please.
How would they meet up with Phoenix?

Unless we're talking Dark Phoneix...Phoenix is not the end all be all chip here.

Right.

A breakdown.

Mr. Terrific: Not much. Physical HtH combatant on Bats level.

Green Lantern; Able to destroy a Star, and more then able to sunder a planet.

The Flash: Can move easily to c level speeds. Able to vibrate through solid objects can lend this power to objects he throws.

Dr. Fate: Worse the GL in every way. Is able to destroy a solar system at absolute maximum. Able to matter manipulate on a global scale, can has shown firepower to level cities....easily.

Hawkgirl: Nothing much...some strength within the 1-2 ton range, flight.

Dr. Mid-nite: Eye capabilites...doctor.

Hourman: The current one is high strength of the 10-20 ton level. Human agility and endurance.

Wildcat: HtH combatant.

Sand: Able to manipulate on a continent scale level of Earthquakes. At maximum can manipulate on a global level.

Power Girl : Superman level strength and endurance. Easily able to move small asteroids.

Stargirl: Chick with a glowy stick. Stick allows for deflection of Superman level hits, and is able to fire burst of energy to destroy building the size of small warehouses, or rocks that are about 50 m in radius.

Sorry, and before we go into the X-Men...they have nothing on their side(even Phoneix) That showed GL capability let alone Dr. Fate. The rest are fodder for either Flash or Power Girl.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 05:33pm

Ghost Rider wrote:A breakdown.

Mr. Terrific: Not much. Physical HtH combatant on Bats level.

Green Lantern; Able to destroy a Star, and more then able to sunder a planet.

The Flash: Can move easily to c level speeds. Able to vibrate through solid objects can lend this power to objects he throws.

Dr. Fate: Worse the GL in every way. Is able to destroy a solar system at absolute maximum. Able to matter manipulate on a global scale, can has shown firepower to level cities....easily.

Would he be above/equel or weaker then Nathan Richards at his peak?

Sorry, and before we go into the X-Men...they have nothing on their side(even Phoneix) That showed GL capability let alone Dr. Fate. The rest are fodder for either Flash or Power Girl.

I will have to give this to JSA then.

But when they kill slim, Jean get a angry fit and kills the universe.

j/k

[/quote]

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:34pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:A breakdown.

Mr. Terrific: Not much. Physical HtH combatant on Bats level.

Green Lantern; Able to destroy a Star, and more then able to sunder a planet.

The Flash: Can move easily to c level speeds. Able to vibrate through solid objects can lend this power to objects he throws.

Dr. Fate: Worse the GL in every way. Is able to destroy a solar system at absolute maximum. Able to matter manipulate on a global scale, can has shown firepower to level cities....easily.
Would he be above/equel or weaker then Nathan Richards at his peak?

Fate is below. Nathan has shown universal scale powers up there with the Infinity Gauntlet at his peak.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-01-29 05:39pm

So Nathan is up there with ION and Parallax.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-01-29 05:40pm

Overall, I've always thought of DC and Marvel this way (in terms of power). DC is like a roided up Hulk Hogan while Marvel is more like a Van Diesel.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 05:43pm

Matt Huang wrote:So Nathan is up there with ION and Parallax.

Who are they and what can they do?

At first(during the 80s) it was said that Nathan would equel Galactus at his peak but now it would appear that he is more like Beyonder.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:43pm

Matt Huang wrote:So Nathan is up there with ION and Parallax.

Actually if Ion was Parallax level...they are stronger. Parallax is able to recreate a multiple universe. Nathan can only at best create a pocket one that is approximately two to three galaxies at best.

The IG...is bit better given it is said to recreate the universe as is, but nothing about multiple which is why the Living Tribunal never gave a fuck.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:44pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Matt Huang wrote:So Nathan is up there with ION and Parallax.
At first(during the 80s) it was said that Nathan would equel Galactus at his peak but now it would appear that he is more like Beyonder.

Well beyond the Big G. Galactus is pretty much within Solar system desctructiveness in terms of sheer power, Nathan can do that and more...and like the Beyonder was orginally intened, can make it permanent.

The Beyonder has gotten a downgrade that his constructs were never permanent.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2005-01-29 05:47pm

Overall, the DCU has more, and more powerful, cosmic level entities (beings like Lucifer and the Endless), but most of them are 'inactive', off pursuing their own goals in their own space. Marvel's cosmic entites are more involved in the day to day running and ruining of the universe, but there are a few less of them.

The 'average level' hero in the DCU is a fair bit stronger as well, whereas Marvel has Thor, who's about eqivalent to Supes, DCU also has Majestic, Captain Marvel, etc who are equivalents.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 05:48pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Matt Huang wrote:So Nathan is up there with ION and Parallax.
Actually if Ion was Parallax level...they are stronger. Parallax is able to recreate a multiple universe. Nathan can only at best create a pocket one that is approximately two to three galaxies at best.

You have to remember that Nathan was just a kid when he did create that pocket universe, he may become stronger as he ages.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 05:50pm

Ghost Rider wrote:The Beyonder has gotten a downgrade that his constructs were never permanent.

Dont remind me, I really hated most of Secret Wars 2.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:50pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Matt Huang wrote:So Nathan is up there with ION and Parallax.
Actually if Ion was Parallax level...they are stronger. Parallax is able to recreate a multiple universe. Nathan can only at best create a pocket one that is approximately two to three galaxies at best.
You have to remember that Nathan was just a kid when he did create that pocket universe, he may become stronger as he ages.

I know...which is why I said, at his height he's likely on IG level.

The closest best they showed was his power becomes independent of him to the point it had it's own will and ideas. Problem I always had with teh Days of Future Past storyline. He's an adult then, and for some reason he didn't cut down Ahab and gang like the fool chumps they were. The reason was equally horrible being

"He had a mental block!"

Yeah, whatever Marvel.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 05:53pm

Ghost Rider wrote:The closest best they showed was his power becomes independent of him to the point it had it's own will and ideas. Problem I always had with teh Days of Future Past storyline. He's an adult then, and for some reason he didn't cut down Ahab and gang like the fool chumps they were. The reason was equally horrible being

"He had a mental block!"

Yeah, whatever Marvel.

That reminds me, whatever happened to his and Rachel Summers kid?
A child with those parents, WOW.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:55pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:The closest best they showed was his power becomes independent of him to the point it had it's own will and ideas. Problem I always had with teh Days of Future Past storyline. He's an adult then, and for some reason he didn't cut down Ahab and gang like the fool chumps they were. The reason was equally horrible being

"He had a mental block!"

Yeah, whatever Marvel.
That reminds me, whatever happened to his and Rachel Summers kid?
A child with those parents, WOW.

Thrown to the wilds of the abyss. Marvel has all but practically forgoteen this storyline. They wqere hinting at a scientist in present day to become Ahab...but then he just disappear off the X-map of characters.

And yeah, a Phoneix empowered Richards kid, given the track record of kids in MU being minor deities on their own(Cyke+Jean= Nathan?!), would be more then a godling.

Too bad...we will likely never know.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2005-01-29 05:56pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
The closest best they showed was his power becomes independent of him to the point it had it's own will and ideas. Problem I always had with teh Days of Future Past storyline. He's an adult then, and for some reason he didn't cut down Ahab and gang like the fool chumps they were. The reason was equally horrible being

"He had a mental block!"

Yeah, whatever Marvel.

Didn't they also have Frankilin Richards being nerfed in Days of Future Pastas well?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:57pm

2000AD wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
The closest best they showed was his power becomes independent of him to the point it had it's own will and ideas. Problem I always had with teh Days of Future Past storyline. He's an adult then, and for some reason he didn't cut down Ahab and gang like the fool chumps they were. The reason was equally horrible being

"He had a mental block!"

Yeah, whatever Marvel.
Didn't they also have Frankilin Richards being nerfed in Days of Future Pastas well?

Yeah...the mental block shit. Seriously lamest cop out of it all because Marvel needs their apoclyptian future. Course, I'm amazed that they still use Days when they have Cable and his dismal shithole of a future.

And I understand your question

. It's gotten fucked up mixing Nathan and Franklin

in the first post about this discussion. I am discussing Franklin Nathanial Richards.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 06:01pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Yeah...the mental block shit. Seriously lamest cop out of it all because Marvel needs their apoclyptian future. Course, I'm amazed that they still use Days when they have Cable and his dismal shithole of a future.

I havent read Cables books in a while. How is he? Still depowered?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 06:02pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Yeah...the mental block shit. Seriously lamest cop out of it all because Marvel needs their apoclyptian future. Course, I'm amazed that they still use Days when they have Cable and his dismal shithole of a future.
I havent read Cables books in a while. How is he? Still depowered?

Actual last read...he regained all his lost power and then some. Basically he's Stryfe+ level. Doing stuff almost on Rachel Summers level.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-29 06:05pm

Ghost Rider wrote:I havent read Cables books in a while. How is he? Still depowered?

Actual last read...he regained all his lost power and then some. Basically he's Stryfe+ level. Doing stuff almost on Rachel Summers level.[/quote]

Really,

. Which book?

Eh, is this Rachel Summers or Rachel Gray powerlevel?