ISD Size Comparisons

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 02:53pm

I have heard many different examples as to how long the Executor and Eclipse were. Assuming that the approximated 1 km long size of the ISD1 is correct, how long is the Executor? In the movies, it appears to be around 10 times as long as an ISD1, but I have heard of sources claiming the Executor to be just 5km long.

The Eclipse is a total mystery to me. The Emperor supposedly designed the Eclipse as another tool of terror, and it was also (I think) designed to be much bigger than the Executor. That same [5km executor] source claims it to be 11km long.

Does anyone have a solid idea of the actual length of these ships? Any charts out there that visually compare the differences of the many types?

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-08-16 03:04pm

Oh boy are you so in luck.

Starship dimensions provides a nice visual display of various ships and stations from many different Sci-Fi settings, all the major Star Wars ships are on there, including both movie star destroyers.

It also includes the Executor at its correct (and now canon) length of 19km. The Official Site also has the correct length in its page for the Executor in the Databank.

Finally, the site which really started all this size discussion, years ago, is Star Wars Technical Commentaries, which is run by Dr. Curtis Saxton, a physicist (I think) who has spent a great deal of time quantitatively measuring different ship length and phenomena in the Star Wars films.

Also, Wookieepedia is an ever growing fan-made encyclopedia of Star Wars material. Generally it's pretty accurate.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-16 03:09pm

Rather than looking at what the sites say, ask yourself what kind of methods they used to arrive at their conclusions.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-08-16 03:10pm

a physicist (I think)

Astrophysicist.

This should tell you all you need to know about ISD's, and here's a summary of the size controversy.

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 03:15pm

Yeah, I saw wookiepedia before... its nice, if a bit empty at the moment. Im working on the Technical Commentaries right now. Its a lot to take in for me, I'm barely done with my first year in college.. so alot of it is greek to me.

The first site you gave me made my jaw drop, though i was unableto find the SSD in there. Oh well.

19km eh? Thats more like it. Now i can only imagine how big the Ecli-- wait a minute. Didnt one source say the Eclipse was around 70km? Dont ask which... this is a vague memory floating up from nowhere....

Darth Wong: I have no idea how they got 5km.... thats insane. The movies seem to show them as much bigger. I would agree more with the 17km... ignoring the fact that its been made canon anyways.

Bounty: Thanks, I'll read that when I get done with the article on Curtis Saxon's site... I have a lot to read up on. O.O

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-16 03:23pm

The problem with the Eclipse-class is, they seem to be unsure what to do with it. If the upcoming prototype in the EAW game expansion follows a new rule LFL's cooked up, they might reclassify ships of the class as still larger than Executor-class vessels, i.e >19 km long.

There are some panels in Empire's End that seem to show the Eclipse II as much bigger than an Executor dreadnought, so, who knows?

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-08-16 03:23pm

Where did you get 1 km from? The ISD has always been 1.6 km long. The old incorrect EU sources claimed that the Executor was just 5 times the length (8 km). Based on that incorrect information, the Eclipse was intended to be more than twice as long as the Executor, at 17.5 km. However, the Executor's length was recently corrected to about 19 km.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-16 03:24pm

He might be mixing 1 mile (1.6 km) with 1 km.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-08-16 03:29pm

The first site you gave me made my jaw drop, though i was unableto find the SSD in there. Oh well.

Click the "10x" tab at the top.

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 03:29pm

Jim Raynor wrote:Where did you get 1 km from? The ISD has always been 1.6 km long.

Thats why I said approximated. I wasnt sure of the decimal part, so i just said 1km. Sorry for the miscommunication.

The old incorrect EU sources claimed that the Executor was just 5 times the length (8 km).

So thats where my defunct memory got the number 5 from.... hmmm..

Based on that incorrect information, the Eclipse was intended to be more than twice as long as the Executor, at 17.5 km. However, the Executor's length was recently corrected to about 19 km.

Ok.... i dont dispute that... or any of this thread for that matter. But I still sont know how long the Eclipse is now. Judging from the change from the Executor's 8km to 19km length.... I would guess that the Eclipse is about 40km?

I still dont know where that 70km came from.

BOUNTY: I saw that after I posted, found it now.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-16 03:34pm

Based on that incorrect information, the Eclipse was intended to be more than twice as long as the Executor, at 17.5 km. However, the Executor's length was recently corrected to about 19 km.

If EAW shows a change in direction, we might be getting a larger size for the Eclipse-class in the end. As of now, it's 17.5 km, while the Executor-class is 19 km. The Sovereign-class is/was at 15 km length. :)

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 03:53pm

Wow..... I doubt Palpatine would be pleased to hear Vader's flagship is bigger than his own. *force lightning, dead engineers*

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-16 03:55pm

The Eclipse is much deeper than the Executor, even if it isn't longer. But to be honest, I think it's not a very good-looking ship. Its shape reminds me of some of those retarded Japanese mangas where they take an old battleship from WW2 and turn it into a spaceship.

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 04:31pm

Good point. And I agree with you to some extent. I guess thats becuase Japan has a lot to be proud of for it's WWII fleet. Even if they did lose. But I see the same things n other sci-fi's.... WH40k (Yes im a 40k junkie) with it's space fleets resemble a cross between ships of the line from the [imperial age?] and WWI Dreadnoughts.

But even if Palpatine's ship is larger in girth, i dont think he would be pleased to know that his second in command's flagship is still longer. That kind of stuff ticks him off, knowing that someone else is better in any way. He almost borders on meglomaniacle.... maybe he IS. (Am I using that word right?)

Darth Crubus · Post by **Darth Crubus** » 2006-08-16 04:32pm

I've done some digging around, and I can't seem to find the site where the 19km figure is explained to be canon and why.

Does anyone have the link?

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-08-16 04:37pm

Darth Crubus wrote:I've done some digging around, and I can't seem to find the site where the 19km figure is explained to be canon and why.

Does anyone have the link?

It's never been "explained" to be canon, Curtis Saxton just did the work to show that it was longer than the 8km WEG and such had put it at, and eventually someone in charge of the Databank quietly saw the light and changed the Databank.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-08-16 04:42pm

Saxton did set upper and lower limits for what the length could be (between 11 and 12 times the length of an ISD). 19 km fits into that range.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-16 04:44pm

Counciler wrote:Wow..... I doubt Palpatine would be pleased to hear Vader's flagship is bigger than his own. *force lightning, dead engineers*

It's more massive, though. And has a superlaser.

Here's a collage of some of the most widely seen vessels in the Empire:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1877/ssdsdff1.jpg

First row:
*Giel's Star Dreadnought
*Executor-class Star Dreadnought
*Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought
*Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought
*Vengeance (either a Star Battlecruiser or a Star Dreadnought)

Second row:
*A big Star Cruiser seen near Byss
*Allegiance (a small Star Cruiser)
*Interdictor Star Destroyer
*Imperator-class Star Destroyer
*Victory-class Star Destroyer
*Modular taskforce cruiser (a multi-purpose support vessel)
*Demolisher (a frigate)
*Immobilizer-418 cruiser (on a lower scale it is a cruiser, on a higher scale it is a frigate)
*Acclamator-class assault ship
*Venator-class Star Destroyer

Note, I found a relatively shitty comparison of the Acclamator and Venator on a scanned page long ago, and I changed the size of Giel's battleship (the one at the top) because it appears to be 150% bigger than Saxton's estimate.

Compared with RL battleships, cruisers and destroyers, SW ships are more extreme:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016383a.jpg

That's the battleship USS Missouri (BB-63) at the top, cruiser USS Alaska (CB-1) below it, and at the bottom, carrier-vessel USS Croatan (CVE-25) and destroyers of the Fletcher and "Four-Pipe, Flush-Deck" classes.

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 05:33pm

That diagram mildly helps my point. That the Eclipse and Executor are almost equal in size. They look to similar.. even if dimension wise, one is larger. The Emperor, from my POV, is all about looking and being better than everyone else... and if someone else looks equal to him.. thats not good for him.

At least thas the way I see it. I could be totally wrong.

Nonetheless, thanks for the diagram.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-16 05:35pm

Now that I think about it, I didn't correct for the Ex's new size. The picture was made when Saxton made the average length of 17.5, the same as the Eclipse. It's supposed to be longer.

EDIT: Fixed now.

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 05:39pm

Even worse..... the Emperor has GOT to be pissed,

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-16 05:45pm

I don't see what's the big deal, it's just 1.5 km more. :P

The Eclipses and Sovereigns were supposed to have enough firepower to penetrate planetary shields, the same type that kept the Executor and a fleet of Star Destroyers at bay at Hoth. I'd say that makes up for it. :P

With Insider 89 mentioning the Eclipse prototype undergoing construction/nearing completion in 0 ABY, and with the Tarkin (from Marvel SW) and at least two smaller Death Stars (from the Illustrated Star Wars Universe) undergoing construction in-between the DS I and DS II, he has more to choose from, anyway.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-08-16 06:03pm

Counciler wrote:That diagram mildly helps my point. That the Eclipse and Executor are almost equal in size. They look to similar.. even if dimension wise, one is larger. The Emperor, from my POV, is all about looking and being better than everyone else... and if someone else looks equal to him.. thats not good for him.

At least thas the way I see it. I could be totally wrong.

Nonetheless, thanks for the diagram.

They are similar in LENGTH. Eclipse is FAR more massive, thus much 'larger'. As has already been said, Eclipse if much 'fatter', so simply comparing length is stupid.

Counciler · Post by **Counciler** » 2006-08-16 06:05pm

Hmmm, well firepower might make up for it. But as we know, the Emp is easily one of the most insanely power hungry guys in sci-fi history. I just dont think he would be satisfied with a same size ship. I wouldnt care, but hes just THAT MUCH off the social scale.

Technically, he had ANYTHING to choose from, but when i comes down to Star Destroyers, the one that he designed himself (or guided the design.. idk) seems the logical choice for the one he would pick. Besides.... as far as I know, the DS2 and the Tarkin Station didnt quite have the same 'luxury cruiser' feel for a meglamaniacle emperor (Here I go with the words i dont know how to use, again...) to take for a spin as the pitch black and terrifyingly sleek Eclipse. DS2 and Tarkin were soo much bigger than the Eclipse, so it seems reasonable that he might want something smaller than that for other purposes.... but still unique in its class....

STARK: I know that, I dont debate its "fatter" difference than the Executor.... I guess im only saying that it doesnt seem like ENOUGH of a size difference for a guy like Palpatine... I figured he would want to dwarf all those under him.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-16 06:06pm

Take an example, the Jedi training vessel Chu'unthor is 2 km long, 400 meters more than an ISD, yet it's flat as a pancake. Not that impressive.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chu%27unthor

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