Tie Fighters- Unfairly maligned?

JJP · Post by **JJP** » 2002-07-04 04:08pm

Is it me, or have TIE fighters been unfairly maligned by the NR biased official literature? Sure they're unshielded, but they seem to have numerous advantages over fighters like the X-Wing.

I know the EU constantly goes on about how Palpatine did not value the lives of pilots enough to give them shields, but they were given fully sealed flight suits and ejector seats (TESB asteroid scene), so this reeks of bullshit.

I reckon their lack of shielding gives some advantage in the way of maneuverability- I certainly can't see why an Empire capable of building moon-sized battlestations wouldn't give fighters shields if there wasn't a good reason not to.

Plus, as seen in the Trench run in ANH their blasters can fire off axis, which the X-Wing can't do. They also had no trouble killing rebel fighters.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » 2002-07-04 04:13pm

The thing is the New Republic used to be the Rebel Alliance. The RA didn't have access to big motherships for their fighters to fly home to conveniently after every battle. They relied on fighters that were pretty much self-sufficient. The TIE fighter definitely is not self sufficient. It has no life support, very limited combat supplies, and no hyperdrive. However, it is stated to have an edge on manuverability and speed over many of the Rebel fighters.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-04 04:15pm

I think most of the bias against TIEs comes from the apparantly unfounded idea that rebel fighters are vastly more durable than TIEs. I don't doubt that they are more durable, but the reported difference is just way too extreme.
In ANH, X-wings and Y-wings were severely disadvantaged after one, maybe two hits...
In the X-wing series of video games (which is freaking amazing, don't get me wrong), a TIE/ln blows up on the second laser blast, which I'll buy. But an X-wing takes like a thousand! Wait, I've got the official stats right here...lemme look it up...here, according to the TIE Fighter Collector's CD-ROM The Official Strategy Guide, an X-wing takes 15 hits from a laser cannon to blow up. That's a little excessive.

Once again, NR bias has clouded the reality of the canon.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-04 04:48pm

TIEs are useful toys of combat when deployed properly.
In the movies, the TIEs actually kicked Rebel ass, albeit taking some losses (it was almost always 1 Rebel 2 TIEs).
Especially the TIE Interceptor seemed to be pretty lethal, I'm sure he can stand one on one with an X-Wing:
He lacks shields, but he's faster and much more maneuverable.
And: Speed kills.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-04 04:53pm

Yes, I think TIEs are not given credit as the quite decent fighters that they are.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 05:03pm

Watch the movies. Tie Fighters are NOT super fragile compared to X-Wings.

Damn Rebel Scum propaganda.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-07-04 05:13pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Watch the movies. Tie Fighters are NOT super fragile compared to X-Wings.

Damn Rebel Scum propaganda.

The TIEs seem to blow up after one hit. The X and Y-Wings burn out in one direct hit, but they can stand glancing blows.

The games are pretty biased against the TIEs. When I got hit in a TIE Fighter (which was seldom

), I had numerous system failures, and they usually got me on the next pass. And B-Wings took forever to kill, seemingly as tough as a corvette. But it was fun to cruise around in fast, maneuverable ships, even if they died quickly.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 05:16pm

Yeah but the Ties always go hit by four guns (Falcon or X-Wing)

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-04 05:23pm

Other points to consider:

Vader's TIE is unscratched by high-speed collision with his wingman in the trench. Thrown far away, but not visibly damaged.

TIE Interceptors in the battle of Endor had 10(Yep... Count 'em.) guns. Ten.

Stackpole is to blame for the anti-TIE propaganda. Anyone else find his description of the killcounts on Wedge's fighter ridiculous?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 05:26pm

SirNitram wrote:Other points to consider:

Vader's TIE is unscratched by high-speed collision with his wingman in the trench. Thrown far away, but not visibly damaged.

TIE Interceptors in the battle of Endor had 10(Yep... Count 'em.) guns. Ten.

Stackpole is to blame for the anti-TIE propaganda. Anyone else find his description of the killcounts on Wedge's fighter ridiculous?

Oh come it can't bad. It's not like it's a hundread.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-04 05:27pm

Actually, I think it was in the several hundreds...let me go find the book.

JJP · Post by **JJP** » 2002-07-04 05:27pm

Damn right. Absolutely ridiculous. It's worse in the comics.

Then again i guess it's no worse than a squad of X-Wings, one ISD and some ancient Alderanian automaton plus a load of freighters chucking proton torpedoes being an even match for an executor class.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 05:31pm

HUNDREDS?!

And yes, the Luskankya (I pronounce it Lus-kank-ya) should have beaten them.[/i]

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-04 05:44pm

Here it is:

Star Wars: Rogue Squadron (pp. 71-71)

"He paused for a moment and looked at the rows of TIE fighters, bombers, and Interceptors painted on the side of the ship. Big Death Stars bracketed the collection of smaller ships on either side, and Ssi-ruuk fighters had started a new row, right at the top of the red stripe bisecting the fuselage. It has been a long fight. And will be longer still.
"Behind him Wedge heard some chittering that Emtrey translated. 'Master Zraii apologizes for not being able to fit all your kills in the space allotted. The ships rendered in red are meant to represent a squadron worth of kills--meaning a dozen.'
"Wedge frowned as he turned to face the droid. 'I have a vague idea how many ships there are in a squadron, you know.'
"'Yes, of course, sir. I know that, but given that the Verpine normally count in base six and humans use base ten, twelve, which to a Verpine is known as 'four fists,' the potential for confusion warranted explanation.'
"The human held his hands up in surrender. 'Fine. Just tell him that he can group kills by dozens or gross lots. It makes no difference to me.'
"'Gross lots, sir?'
"'A dozen dozen, Emtrey.'
"'One hundred and forty-four? Four wings?'
"'Yes, forty-eight fists in Verpine.'"

So, it doesn't give an actual figure, but Wedge seemingly wouldn't be surprised if kills were grouped in units of 144.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 05:50pm

Insane.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-07-04 05:55pm

Truly. That book was published in 1996, and the TIE Fighter Collector's CD-ROM was published in 1995...a lot of aspects of the X-wing series of game were incorporated by Mr. Stackpole into the X-wing series of books.
Just try and complete the TIE Fighter video game without having over a thousand kills.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-04 07:44pm

TIEs are unfairly maligned. A TIE Fighter costs 40,000-60,000 credits to produce whereas an X-Wing costs at least 100,000. The EU tech literature consistently describes TIEs as being omnipresent symbols of Imperial power, on every little ship and outpost throughout the galaxy. They make up their shortcomings in quality with advantages in quantity. They are everywhere, able to engage all foes in any area. TIE pilots are trained to work together, using their superior numbers to devastate foes. TIEs are modular and have the same or similar cockpits, making it easier for pilots to learn new TIE fighter subtypes whereas most of the Rebel alphabet-wing fighters have completely different cockpits. The only sad part is that the Empire did not complete its plan to replace TIE Fighters with the somewhat more expensive TIE Interceptors. If this had been done, the dominance of TIE Fighters would have been harder to challenge.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-07-04 07:49pm

The Chiss Clawcraft is an excellent improvement upon the TIE design:
http://www.unjoh.com/gallery/clawcraft.jpg

Sebastin · Post by **Sebastin** » 2002-07-04 08:00pm

Hundreds of kills is a lot but not insane.
Consider: the best real life ace Erich Hartmann accumulated 352(!!) kills. Not including aircraft hit on the ground or only damaged, and not counted in some point system but 352 real air to air victorys.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-07-04 08:31pm

Wedge was probably in a LOT of battles.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 09:20pm

First, HDS, that is so horrible looking. Tie Defender ownz!:)

Sebastin wrote:Hundreds of kills is a lot but not insane.
Consider: the best real life ace Erich Hartmann accumulated 352(!!) kills. Not including aircraft hit on the ground or only damaged, and not counted in some point system but 352 real air to air victorys.

Was he shot down?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-04 09:23pm

I think from offical liture to books to movies it works out like this

1 Good shot kills a Tie-fighter(IE Engie, Windshields,err whatever, um ok Front Facing Ocogonal Window thing then)

X-wing its not 1 Extra shot more like 6 Paired shots(Or two Tie-inteceptor Blasts, 4x Lasers twice though rarly all 4 hit)

We have seen them survive rouglhly eight hits(With all shields running Aft, Ref, A New Hope)

So lets for aurment sake call it

Two shots to Kill a Tie 6 to kill an X-wing
5 A-Wing(less shields on them)
10 Shots for a B-Wing

4 Shots for Shield 2 more for hull just like Tie-Fighters and Inceptors

(BTW most of this was gatherd Via-Special Edition new rendering and Listening to shot sounds in Trench just listen to the beow, beeow sounds when vadar fires at Biggs you can hear its eight in total, and given he almost did not change postion nor did we see the shots fly past him that all eight hit)

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-04 11:58pm

The myth of the fragile TIE fighter has been created because all we see in the movies and in the books is the Rebels best against common empire pilots. We never see your average rebel pilot.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » 2002-07-05 02:09am

The average Rebel pilots are the ones who had their fighters shot down in flaming pieces and finally crashing into a Star Destroyer during the Battle of Endor.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-07-05 04:10am

Interesting note the panels on a TIE fighter are not solar but a radiator to remove excess heat.also the reason the panels on and interceptor look the way they do is to give the pilot a better horizontal viewing area.