The New SW Canon

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by ray245 » 2014-04-25 11:59pm

It's not just the post ROTJ stuff that was thrown out. Stuff that is pre-TPM is also being thrown out by Disney. Stories of the Old Republic? Gone. Stories about a young Qui-Gon Jinn? Gone. Story about the rise of a young Palpatine? Gone. Events in KOTOR? Gone as well.

That is just too excessive of an act in my opinion. Unless Disney is willingly to rebuild a new universe that can somehow fill in all the stuff that was declared non-official in a matter of years, it will be decades before they get around telling new stories about a young Qui-Gon. That is the most disappointing part. All the stuff on wookiepeida giving us a long history of every minor character's backstory is now gone, and it is unlikely they will ever be retold.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Knife » 2014-04-26 12:35am

Good. Most of it was crap. Any of the good stuff they can redo
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by the atom » 2014-04-26 02:54am

Crayz9000 wrote:
the atom wrote:Where was it said that stuff under Legends was non-canon?
Lucasfilm wrote:Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe
The way I read that, every post-RotJ book will be placed under the Legends labeling and will be non-canon, since it will be directly contradicted by the new movies and TV shows. They'll still pull anything they like from those stories to use in new works. Pre-RotJ works that still fit into the new unified universe will be managed by the new Lucasfilm Story Group along with new books etc. Any of those works can still be contradicted by the movies/TV, but the Story Group will apparently be managing all the conflicts.
Well yeah, I think everybody with half a brain figured that much about the Post-Rotj EU the moment they announced the sequel. The million dollar question is what happens with the Pre-Rotj EU and the reference and RPG books.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by RogueIce » 2014-04-26 04:35am

"Everything prior to now is Legends. But the EU is still there. Doesn't mean characters from there may not pop up somewhere."
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Old EU is basically non-canon now, people. You'll just have to deal with that. Doesn't mean they might not pull some characters or locations and give them new life, but unless it was in the movies or TCW, it ain't canon. Stuff going forward, yes. But for right now, nothing's been released yet so it's just Episodes I - VI and TCW.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by JME2 » 2014-04-26 09:42am

They can say that as much as they want, but as far as I'm concerned, Luceno's PT stories are still canon.

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Darksider » 2014-04-26 09:57am

I get that they had to throw the post-ROTJ era out the window in order to do their own thing, but tossing out the Old Republic and PT era EU just seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by malguslover » 2014-04-26 10:22am

JME2 wrote:They can say that as much as they want, but as far as I'm concerned, Luceno's PT stories are still canon.
oh cool is that what we are doing now? Well then I claim that Han Solo is actually Indiana Jones and all Robot Chicken episodes are also canon.

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Crayz9000 » 2014-04-26 01:04pm

I imagine DorkStar will be doing a victory dance (by himself, of course) at the news of the death of the ICS.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by DaveJB » 2014-04-26 01:11pm

Crayz9000 wrote:I imagine DorkStar will be doing a victory dance (by himself, of course) at the news of the death of the ICS.
More likely the opposite - the ICS will probably be one of the few pieces of surviving EU material, since it expands on stuff seen in the films rather than providing all-new information. Besides, the few Trekkies who give a shit about the debate have mostly moved onto comparing NuTrek to Star Wars, rather than nitpicking the validity of SW canon.

In any case, all that's really happened is that Star Wars has moved into having the same "only what's on-screen is canon" policy as virtually every other sci-fi series out there. The EU, for better or worse, was really kind of an oddity in trying to keep everything in one somewhat consistent canon from day one.

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by JME2 » 2014-04-26 01:42pm

malguslover wrote:
JME2 wrote:They can say that as much as they want, but as far as I'm concerned, Luceno's PT stories are still canon.
oh cool is that what we are doing now? Well then I claim that Han Solo is actually Indiana Jones and all Robot Chicken episodes are also canon.
RC's version of Fett should be canon at least. I can't take Boba seriously anymore because of them. :)

In the case of Luceno's PT stories, it makes no sense to toss them out -- along with the entire PT-era stories since they're not affected by the post-ROTJ EU. COD and DP and even LOE to an extent do a masterful job of making sense of the plot holes and head scratches inherent in the Sith Plan as seen on screen.

Actually, I find it highly ironic that Luceno's next novel, Tarkin, is being published as part of the post-EU continuity -- and yet Luceno's entire schtick is tying together continuity into a coherent narrative.

I wonder if he's going to ignore LFL and continue to make reference to the old EU wherever he can in the book.

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by ray245 » 2014-04-26 02:22pm

DaveJB wrote:
Crayz9000 wrote:I imagine DorkStar will be doing a victory dance (by himself, of course) at the news of the death of the ICS.
More likely the opposite - the ICS will probably be one of the few pieces of surviving EU material, since it expands on stuff seen in the films rather than providing all-new information. Besides, the few Trekkies who give a shit about the debate have mostly moved onto comparing NuTrek to Star Wars, rather than nitpicking the validity of SW canon.

In any case, all that's really happened is that Star Wars has moved into having the same "only what's on-screen is canon" policy as virtually every other sci-fi series out there. The EU, for better or worse, was really kind of an oddity in trying to keep everything in one somewhat consistent canon from day one.
It's the opposite really. Any new materials published by Disney, as long as it is not under the "Legends" banner, will have the same canon status as the film themselves.

All it takes is for Lucasfilm to publish a new ICS book series, with firepower stats, and it will share the same canon status as the film. There will be no more distinction between C-Canon and G-Canon.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by malguslover » 2014-04-26 03:09pm

ray245 wrote:
DaveJB wrote:
Crayz9000 wrote:I imagine DorkStar will be doing a victory dance (by himself, of course) at the news of the death of the ICS.
More likely the opposite - the ICS will probably be one of the few pieces of surviving EU material, since it expands on stuff seen in the films rather than providing all-new information. Besides, the few Trekkies who give a shit about the debate have mostly moved onto comparing NuTrek to Star Wars, rather than nitpicking the validity of SW canon.

In any case, all that's really happened is that Star Wars has moved into having the same "only what's on-screen is canon" policy as virtually every other sci-fi series out there. The EU, for better or worse, was really kind of an oddity in trying to keep everything in one somewhat consistent canon from day one.
It's the opposite really. Any new materials published by Disney, as long as it is not under the "Legends" banner, will have the same canon status as the film themselves.

All it takes is for Lucasfilm to publish a new ICS book series, with firepower stats, and it will share the same canon status as the film. There will be no more distinction between C-Canon and G-Canon.

I could be wrong but I remember a few months ago I was in a book store and i saw this http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Complet ... ss+section

The new version of it and i remember seeing that they had removed all the weapon stats.

It could be possible that they never release an edition with weapon stats again.

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Vance » 2014-04-26 06:51pm

In the new Complete Vehicles, the data files are removed from the pages, replaced by pictures or new text. The data files and related stats can be found near the end of the book.

I very much doubt there will be a "new ICS" because 99.99% of books simply do not care for that sort of thing. It was only so technical because an astrophysicist was the author, and he was specifically told to exploit his PhD in writing it. So if we got anything similar it would not have stats, or if it did, it would probably be minimalist bullshit from somebody with no sense of scale. People who build planet destroying Death Stars should have powerful ships, lol.

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by RogueIce » 2014-04-27 04:54pm

Darksider wrote:I get that they had to throw the post-ROTJ era out the window in order to do their own thing, but tossing out the Old Republic and PT era EU just seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
To make a serious attempt at an answer, do you know their internal plans going forward? Maybe they want to do some stuff in the PT or "older" eras and don't want to get tied down (standalone movies, TV shows, etc.) by existing stuff.

Even if they don't have plans for it right now doing things this way nonetheless leaves their options open for if/when they reach that point and adds the bonus that they can get past all the "YOU KILLED THE EU, HATE YOU FOREVER" sentiment now instead of having to repeat it when some Big Name Director™ and/or Big Name Screenwriter™ does "Ancient Sith Wars: The Movie" and has never heard of nor cares about KOTOR, KOTOR II or the TOR MMO. Or something set in-between Episodes I and II, whatever. I think a bung of Ep2->Ep3 already got mostly canned by TCW anyway.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Dalton » 2014-04-28 01:16pm

From Timothy Zahn:
Having now had a few days to process the news from LFL, a few thoughts:
First, since many of you are wondering, I have *not* yet been asked to write any new Star Wars books. But that doesn’t mean I won’t receive such an invitation in the future. If that happens, whether or not I accept will depend on what kind of story I’m asked to write, what input I’d have on the content, what era the story will be set in, etc. I would certainly *like* to return to the GFFA, but at the moment that’s not my decision to make.
Second, as far as I can tell from the announcement, LFL is *not* erasing the EU, but simply making it clear that nothing there is official canon. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it immediately send everything into alternate-universe status. If nothing from the Thrawn Trilogy, say, is used in future movies (and if there’s nothing in the movies that contradicts it), then we can reasonably continue to assume that those events *did* happen. It looks to me like the “Legends” banner is going to be used mainly to distinguish Story-Group-Approved canon books from those that aren’t officially canon but might still exist.
Third, even if something from the Thrawn Trilogy *does* show up in a movie in a different form, we authors are masters of spackle, back-fill, and hand-waving. For example, if Ghent appears in the movies but never mentions Thrawn, I can argue that he simply doesn’t want to talk about that era, or else has completely forgotten about it. (Which for Ghent isn’t really much of a stretch.)
Finally, there’s nothing inherently demeaning in the term “Legends.” Think back (a little farther…a little farther) to Disney’s 1950s “Davy Crockett” TV series, (a show I grew up with) which presented stories and legends about the King of the Wild Frontier. Historians have Crockett’s genuine history, but there’s nothing that says these TV adventures *didn’t* happen, right? So until and unless the legend puts Davy in Tennessee at the same time the real history puts him in Virginia, we can still believe those adventures happened. That’s how I expect it to be with the “real” Star Wars history versus the “legendary” adventures of the EU.
Bottom line: let’s all sit back and relax and see what new adventures are offered to us, both in new books and new movies. It’ll be Star Wars, and that’s what counts.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Lord_Xerxes » 2014-04-28 02:51pm

Seems like a hard nerf to the Mandalorians as well. Until they put him back on screen, Boba is retconned back into a sarlacc death. All the backstories of the Fetts are gone, and most of the Mandalorian war culture is too. All that is left is some vague comments made in TCW. Pre makes a statement about his people fighting the Jedi for generations, but KOTOR, TOR, and the Mandalorian Wars are gone. Almost every onscreen fight between a Mandalorian and a force user makes it sound more like bravado than anything.

Can't say I'm sad. They were overblown to hell.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by JME2 » 2014-04-28 03:06pm

Heh, that's true.

I didn't occur to me that this means Boba's dead again. :)

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Borgholio » 2014-04-28 03:32pm

I didn't occur to me that this means Boba's dead again. :)
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by malguslover » 2014-04-28 04:18pm

http://i1.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/ ... hamill.jpg

Hmmm and since Robot Legs Maul is alive its very interesting that Peter Serafinowicz is in London with Mark Hamil

Could be that Maul will be in Episode 7?

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by RogueIce » 2014-04-28 06:16pm

He lives in the UK, so no big surprise. Plus IIRC he was only the voice of Maul, something that would tend to be done in post-production, so this probably doesn't mean anything other than Mark Hamill and he got together while the former was in London, possibly while Mr. Hamill is/was shooting for Episode VII.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by malguslover » 2014-04-28 07:28pm

RogueIce wrote:He lives in the UK, so no big surprise. Plus IIRC he was only the voice of Maul, something that would tend to be done in post-production, so this probably doesn't mean anything other than Mark Hamill and he got together while the former was in London, possibly while Mr. Hamill is/was shooting for Episode VII.
but here's the thing why would they be hanging out? How do they know each other? I think its more likely that Peter is there for another part in Star Wars. I mean he is a great actor and has an amazing voice.

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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Havok » 2014-04-28 09:29pm

Hahahahhahahahahahhahahahaha!

Fucking finally.

You guys can play semantic grabass all you want, but the EU is just a story now. It has no bearing in the Star Wars universe other than being expensive, elaborate, slightly better than average fan fiction.

The thing is, THIS is exactly what Lucas has been saying for years. The EU is it's own universe that uses my movies as a basis, but it is not MY universe.

Now you can still love it, but it's just not relevant to anything official.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Crayz9000 » 2014-04-28 09:49pm

Havok wrote:You guys can play semantic grabass all you want, but the EU is just a story now. It has no bearing in the Star Wars universe other than being expensive, elaborate, slightly better than average fan fiction.

The thing is, THIS is exactly what Lucas has been saying for years. The EU is it's own universe that uses my movies as a basis, but it is not MY universe.
That's not quite right, and I'm not playing semantic grabass here. The current EU has been relegated to, as you so eloquently put it, expensive, elaborate, slightly better than average, officially sanctioned fan fiction status under the Legends banner.

New books published under Story Group auspices look like they will have some sort of official standing as long as they don't contradict canon.

Since Lucas is now only an advisor, it's technically not even his universe any more, but Disney's.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Havok » 2014-04-28 10:02pm

The point stands. As well as the status.

If some guy writes for something under the Legends banner, he is just wasting his time. You are essentially writing myths about Star Wars that no one is going to care about and that everyone official can just ignore. It's fan fiction that "oh man I hope one day they use in the movies so it matters.".

And your point about Lucas is ultimate semantics because Disney made official what Lucas didn't care enough to actually do, but viewed the EU as. What Lucas has said and felt and viewed the EU as when he owned the franchise, Disney has put into official practice.
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Re: The New SW Canon

Post by Crayz9000 » 2014-04-28 11:31pm

Havok wrote:The point stands. As well as the status.
If you look back, I never really disagreed about the old EU - it's basically been tossed and turned into semi-mythical stories. I said as much when I first posted the update.
If some guy writes for something under the Legends banner, he is just wasting his time. You are essentially writing myths about Star Wars that no one is going to care about and that everyone official can just ignore. It's fan fiction that "oh man I hope one day they use in the movies so it matters."
People wrote stories for Star Wars: Infinities and got paid for doing so. I'm not sure if LFL Story Group even plans on releasing new stories under the Legends banner, anyway.
And your point about Lucas is ultimate semantics because Disney made official what Lucas didn't care enough to actually do, but viewed the EU as. What Lucas has said and felt and viewed the EU as when he owned the franchise, Disney has put into official practice.
Which is fine by me. It really cleans things up, and as much as I might miss the Thrawn campaign, we're now spared the embarassment of superuberbiotechwank, Sith Lord of the Week stories, and best of all, Mandomania.
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