WAIT A MINUTE!

[Kuja]

OK, Lucas says that the Imperial forces are all Clones, right? WHAT ABOUT THE NAVAL TROOPERS? They don't look like Jango, and they don't look alike!

[Tsyroc]

OK, Lucas says that the Imperial forces are all Clones, right? WHAT ABOUT THE NAVAL TROOPERS? They don't look like Jango, and they don't look alike!

I hear that's something else Lucas is going to "fix" before the OT is released on DVD.

[Kuja]

I hear that's something else Lucas is going to "fix" before the OT is released on DVD.

Fuck fuck FUCK!

[Slartibartfast]

Which ones are the naval?

[Mr Bean]

Big Hat Guys

[Kerneth]

Were there Naval Troopers in Attack of the Clones? I don't recall seeing any, but I may have missed them. By the time the Clonetroopers became Stormtroopers they weren't all clones anymore. Rather, stormtroopers were conscripts from Imperial worlds who were heavily indoctrinated with Imperial propoganda and trained to be both highly skilled soldiers and fanatically loyal to Emperor Palpatine.

[Stravo]

The naval troopers are conscripts, its the STORMIES that are clones.

[Kerneth]

In AotC, the guys in white are all clones. By the end of the Clone Wars, clones are widely despised, and Palpatine is using conscripts taken from their homes at age 15 or so and trained and indoctrinated to be stormtroopers. In the EU, Kyp Durron's brother was a stormtrooper, for example. Continuing to use clones was neither politically nor logistically feasible after the first two batches were used up because it took a decade to produce each clone.

I don't recall seeing naval troopers in AotC, but the cloning facilities on Kamino were to the best of my knowledge turning out *only* ground troops.

[Peregrin Toker]

OK, Lucas says that the Imperial forces are all Clones, right? WHAT ABOUT THE NAVAL TROOPERS? They don't look like Jango, and they don't look alike!

I agree with you - all that cloning thing is far too impractical and expensive to be used on such a wide scale. However, the Empire might order lots of cloned stormtroopers just to keep Kamino's planetary economy running.

[Nathan F]

Possibly officers are not clones, and only the cannon-fodder stormies.

[Kuja]

Possibly officers are not clones, and only the cannon-fodder stormies.

Naval Troopers aren't officers.....I think.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Calm down.

I'm with Stravo on this one, esp. since I conceded the point to him on a recent debate (oh don't you just enjoy it ). GL has moral rights, and he says the Stormtroopers are clones.

GL comments refer to the Stormtrooper Corps specifically.

The Stormtroopers are by-and-large clones. There might have been some volunteers in test units or special divisions or in a small percentage, but the point is that the Stormtrooper Corps are a clone division of the Imperial military. A tiny minority of the Stormtrooper Corps are political prisioners reindoctrinated like Kyp Durron's brother as punishment to dissidents. More of this tiny minority are highly skilled washouts from the Imperial Army Academy's more prestegious divisions, like Davin Felth.

The Stormtroopers vastly outnumber the maximum number of Clonetroopers there were in Attack of the Clones, likely the Stormtrooper Crops was originally founded around Clone veterans of the Clone Wars as officers and volunteers as the average grunts. As Palpatine mixed and matched different cloning techniques for the perfect one, the volunteers began being phased out in favor of mostly clones. During the massive military build-up between ANH and ESB that doubled the size of the military, volunteers were likely again used to supplement the numbers of clones.

Point being the Stormtrooper Corps was by-and-large a clone division of the military, esp. in the OT.

Army and Navy troops are volunteers and conscripts.

I hear that's something else Lucas is going to "fix" before the OT is released on DVD.

Unsubstanciated B.S. This is said so many times but NO ONE provides a source or diddly. Arg. Everyone stop claiming this unless you can back it up in the future. *readies flame-thrower*

[Sea Skimmer]

Naval Troopers are a totally separate branch.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Both Army and Navy are.

Stormtroopers are a completely seperate branch of the military answering to Palpatine personally.

[Darth Fanboy]

We sometimes forget (and this brain bug has extended into the EU) that stormtroopers are the only foot soldier the Empire uses. This isn't the case,they are special, elite, deadly soldiers and there is still a large Imperial Army made up of conscripts, enlisted men, and officers.

The bug that Stormies are the regular foot soldier of the Empire and all a Rebel soldier has to do is steal a stormtrooper armor to get into a military base is just shit.

These Imperial Army soldiers include the pilots of AT-ATs and AT-STs and ormed the core of planetary garrisons

[Tsyroc]

I hear that's something else Lucas is going to "fix" before the OT is released on DVD.

Unsubstanciated B.S. This is said so many times but NO ONE provides a source or diddly. Arg. Everyone stop claiming this unless you can back it up in the future. *readies flame-thrower*

Testing

Testing

Is this working?

I was only joking but you seem to be taking it rather seriously you must be working for Lucas to keep the truth under wraps. He is going to make all the Naval Troopers in the OT into clones Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Illuminatus Primus]

No, I'm just tired of people beating the drum of that "quote" of GL and NO ONE being able to back it up. NOBODY.

[Tsyroc]

No, I'm just tired of people beating the drum of that "quote" of GL and NO ONE being able to back it up. NOBODY.

That's cool. In fact I was basically playing with the fact that everyone keeps saying Lucas is going to change this and that. Certainly his past history has shown that he likes to fiddle with his movies but you are right. People shouldn't take it as fact until he actually does it.

[Illuminatus Primus]

You'd be amazed. No less then basically ever other day on this or some other forum I see the same thing claimed. And I have never, ever seen a quote, interview, anything.

[Kurgan]

For now, the idea that somewhere along the line between AOTC and ANH, the Empire switched from Clones to conscripts (or a combination of the two) for Stormies is an acceptable fix.

But, Lucas currently believes they are all clones (he doesn't mention the officers, commandos, etc any Imp we see the face of).

The EU assumes none of them are clones (except for whatever happened during the 'clone wars' but I always assumed they thought the Mandalorian Super Commandos used clones or were clones or the Jedi were cloned).

But we can't use the EU to prove the canon wrong... still, it hasn't been shown in the films yet (that the stormies are clones, and not just the kaminoean troopers) so like the "lightsabers don't work in water" thing, it's up in the air.

I'm sure the EU authors are working on a fix as we speak, but it will be interesting to see if they elaborate on any of this in Ep3 or George changes his mind again.


The last thing I want to see though, is Lucas redubbing all the trooper lines in the classic trilogy and pasting over all the officers faces with that actor who played Jango. That'd suck... but he can do that, they're his films.

[Kurgan]

Just to clarify.. I've listened to the AOTC DVD Audio commentary and GL makes comments that strongly indicate he "always intended" for the Stormtroopers to be decended from Jango Fett and that they're all clones.

He doesn't say anything about re-editing the classic trilogy to make this clear however. Until I hear differently, that's just a rumor that probably appeared on TF.net along with the other rumor of him putting prequel characters digitally into the original films for the DVD releases.

I'll listen to it again, but I swear I would have picked something like that up. Everybody with a copy, do the same.. report your findings! ; )

[Illuminatus Primus]

You mean clones and volunteers. The Empire did have people who volunteered for military service. I'd say conscripts likely belong to the lowest level: Imperial Army Troopers.

The original EU idea, that the clones were an external threat to the Republic that neccessitated the military build-up, governmental centralization, and suppression of dissent that would create the Empire, has it's origin in earlier scripts of the story.

In older scripts, Lando was a member of a whole race of clones which had fought against the Republic in a series of bloody Clone Wars which lasted much longer then the canon Clone War and occured 35 year BBY, not 22 years BBY.

In the EU, this caste of clones became the Spaarti clonetroopers, of which were discontinued so Palpatine's recruitment and conscription policies would greater increase the Imperial Government's control and influence into the civilian population, while simultaneously removing a technology that had easy potential to be used against him.

The EU currently does speak of some stormtroopers who are clones. ("Pax Emperica")

Lucas' new view on the Clone War(s) involved that the Republic established the clones as a simple and politically/sociologically free way of easily provoking war. We know from multiple Holonetnews articles that several key Core Worlds were opposed to the war on the grounds of manpower, logistics, and economical reasons. Not to mention their people didn't want conscription or high taxes.

[Kurgan]

Good point, I forgot to mention volunteers! We have no idea if anybody ever actually signed up for the Stormtrooper corps (other than the EU and those humorous posters about how they get shot at and used for cannon fodder, etc). ; )

[RedImperator]

The last thing I want to see though, is Lucas redubbing all the trooper lines in the classic trilogy and pasting over all the officers faces with that actor who played Jango. That'd suck... but he can do that, they're his films.

If Lucas did that, he wouldn't be changing the old films. He'd be creating three new films very similar to the old ones, and vs. debaters would get to argue for years over which ones took precedence. If you're going to say that the altered films totally replace the old ones, then Greedo shot first, and I haven't seen a Star Wars fan anywhere willing to accept that.

Frankly, I hate this trend of directors fucking around with classic films because they've changed their mind about this thing or that thing. If you want to edit out an FX glitch like a boom mike in the shot, that's one thing, but actually changing the details of the story to suit your present whims is unwarranted, egotistical fuckery. And what's worse is when they won't let the fans own a copy of the original--at least when James Cameron put deleted scenes back in T2, and Steven Spielberg changed the cops' guns to radios in ET, you had the option of watching the unaltered theatrical release instead of the bastardized version. I'd bet my own mother Lucas won't give us that much.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

What he should do is make a checklist of all of the changes on the DVDs. Each scene which was added or edited would appear on the checklist with the original scene next to it (if it is edited). You just simply check on and off the things you want to see and don't want to see. You go back to the main menu, press play, and the movie plays everything the way you want it to. That would be one of the best things ILM could do to please all fans.