IRG CommandoJoe wrote:*Applauds Doomriser's brilliant post.*
I agree fully. Except people seem to overlook that only women and aliens are excluded from the Empire. Haven't you noticed that only white people are in the Empire as well? And the reason why there weren't any aliens and women and different colored skin people in the first two movies was because:
a. The Rebel Alliance was still struggling to gain worlds to support them, thus limiting them to mostly humans.
b. Probably all of the Imperial Academy students were the only pilots available to the Rebellion in the beginning (ANH). My observation of no women or different colored skin people or aliens in the Empire means that they wouldn't have been in the Academy in the first place. Considering pilots in the Academy probably have the best training available anywhere for starfighter pilots, the Rebel Alliance had those on their Yavin IV base (Wedge, Biggs, and Leia must have had some strings pulled for Luke, lol). The best of the Academy pilots later on were most likely selected to be in Rogue Squadron on Hoth. As stated, there would only be white, male humans in the Academy, thus the only ones in Rogue Squadron at the time. Later on, Rogue Squadron and other Academy graduates must have trained their own new pilots outside the Academy, so that meant more people with different skin color, women, and aliens would be trained to fly Rebel starfighters. I hope that makes sense, lol.
Most people seem to forget that the human-only limitation of the Empire may simply be due military economy.
Humans seem to be by far the most common species present in the SW galaxy. That means, a large resource for recruits. And standardisation of equipment. You can't construct a starfighter which can be piloted effectively by a human and a Dug.
And only white humans are present in the Empire? At least we only see white-skinned ones, which doesn't mean there aren'T any others.
As far as I know, there were only 3 humans without white skin present in SW: Lando, the pilot whose X-Wing crashed into the SD's sensor dome during the battle of Endor, and Mace Windu.
Perhaps white humans simply are much more common in the SW galaxy?
The fact that we don't see any non-whites on Imperial warships doesn't mean there aren't any.
This whole 'Empire is racist' thing comes from the EU, and I absolutely disagree with it. It simply seems illogical.
Its not the EMPIRE whos Racist
It was somthing that was brought along by the Emperor I think either truefuly or he used them as a scapegoat he got a Me to attidue going with all the Humans vs those evil Aliens, The sexistism came from his other officers(IE They still have the occsional idiot who things the Glass celing was a good idea, remeber the Empereor though he can is not the one handing out promitions)
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Right.
Though Palp and Vader where evil, the Empire as a whole is neither racist nor sexist nor 'evil'.
It's a decent government, it does only what the situation demands, even if that is portrayed by the NR as 'evil'.
It's got many honorable people such as Pellaeon and Thrawn.
And although they are portrayed by Federation Cultists as Space Nazis, they are not.
IG-88E wrote:Admiral Ackbar was a slave and he's almost Thrawn's equal!
Ackbar....Thrawns....equal...
Bel Iblis was probably the only NR commander that got even CLOSE to Thrawns military prowess.
Justice League, Super-Villain Carnage "Carnage Rules!" Cult of the Kitten Mew...The Black Mage with The KnifeSD.Net Chronicler of the PastBun Bun is my hero.The Official Verilonitis Vaccinator
Cpt_Frank wrote:Right.
Though Palp and Vader where evil, the Empire as a whole is neither racist nor sexist nor 'evil'.
It's a decent government, it does only what the situation demands, even if that is portrayed by the NR as 'evil'.
It's got many honorable people such as Pellaeon and Thrawn.
And although they are portrayed by Federation Cultists as Space Nazis, they are not.
That is what I as well have been saying Frank, when Thrawn first came to power there was a huge turn around in what the Empire was about. When Palpatine came back the Empire went to hell again and when he died it was Endor all over again which further weakened the Empire. When Pallaeon took control the Empire flurished once again. Although Palpatine was the creator of the Empire he did more actual harm to the Empire then good. Mind you it was only supposed to last as long as him and he didn't care what happened after he died. If the Empire had been formed by, say Thrawn or Palleaon or even most Imperial commanders after Palpatines death the Empire would not have been percieved as being Evil.
Justice League, Super-Villain Carnage "Carnage Rules!" Cult of the Kitten Mew...The Black Mage with The KnifeSD.Net Chronicler of the PastBun Bun is my hero.The Official Verilonitis Vaccinator
OK, I guess I did exaggerate Ackbar's abilities, but still, he's a damn good commander. Thrawn may have the 'Thrawn Pincer', but Ackbar uses the Ackbar slash. He also learns quickly. Within a few months of Thrawn's defeat, he's used the Thrawn pincer to wipe out an Imperial warlord's entire fleet. Shortly after Zsinj's defeat by Han Solo, Ackbar takes the reins and starts smashing the Imperials. Admiral Rogriss, one of the Empire's best leaders (he's an intellectual; takes after Thrawn, hehe) loses the majority of battles and ends up getting pushed further and further towards the Outer Rim. Anyway, back to the debate...
As for Alderaan, well they were vocally supportive of the Rebels, but they weren't really involved. Bail Organa was trying to convince them to join up until they went boom.
BTW, something I forgot to mention: I want all you guys to take a look at this list of people who wanted to change the Empire from within. See what happened to them?
Han Solo - kicked out for defending Chewie (a slave)
Kasan Moor and Tycho Celchu - defected after Alderaan
Crix Madine - defected due to immoral orders
Jan Dodonna - nearly assassinated, defected
Soontir Fel - defected
Admiral Rogriss - defected due to immoral orders
Biggs Darklighter - defected
Jek Porkins and Zev Senesca - defected after their people were forced off their homeworld to make room for a naval base.
Maximillian Veers (yes that's the General Veers from TESB) - committed suicide during the time of the Emporer Reborn
You'll probably recognize most of the people on this list. If you don't, just realize that all of those defectors became great pilots and leaders in the Rebellion.[/i]
Anyway, back to the whole Evil Empire thing, did you hear that the Moncals had a passive resistance movement? Kinda like Gandhi. It lasted until the Empire blew up three of their cities. Then they unlocked an ocean of whoopass.
First off, I'm not a Federation cultist. Don't you dare give me that label. IRG=Imperial Royal Guards. I belong to a clan that is entirely based on Star Wars. I own many Star Wars books, games, board games, action figures, CDs, tapes, and other miscellaneous Star Wars merchandise. I even learned the main title theme and the Imperial March on the piano, along with playing all of the other themes by ear all the time. I even quote characters with my friends who appreciate Star Wars in RL. I constantly play Jedi Outcast with my friends. I'm a member of the official fan club and have a subscription to the Star Wars Insider. In short, I love Star Wars.
Second of all, I am only basing these arguments with strictly canon observations from the movies. I'm not even using any outside information other than the films. I'd buy that standardization thing, but then why would it be humans? Why wouldn't they be some bad-ass aliens with more lethality and higher reflexes than humans? Like making all pilots Dugs and all soldiers Wookies. Some more evidence that the Empire is racist is Piett's quote to a fellow Imperial communications officer, "Bounty hunters...we don't need this scum." He glared up at Bossk in disgust as he observed his feet. And of course, the Imperial detention center officer referring to Chewbacca, a well-known species in the galaxy that once held a seat in the Galactic Senate, a "...thing"? Sure Leia also called him a "walking carpet," but that was when she was rather...pissed. lol And the slaughtering of Jawas (and probably Sand People as well to get those gaffi sticks) is also a clear sign of racism. It's like a hundred million times a Rodney King situation. Also headed by a man who once murdered innocent women and children Sand People, and who believed they were animals and deserved to die like animals says something about how the Empire treats aliens. That was well after the situation and after he thought about it enough to say rational things. Off-topic, but how the FUCK could Padme love someone like that???!!! Wouldn't you be freaked out if your boyfriend/girlfriend just got back from slaughtering a bunch of people???
Third of all, there were waaaaay more people with different colored skin, women, and aliens in high positions in many different organizations of the galaxy (except the Empire) in all of the movies. Captain Panaka of the Naboo Royal Security Force. Both Naboo rulers were Queens. And the other captain who replaced Panaka in AotC...forgot his name, but he wasn't white. The woman pilot in TPM. Mace Windu on the Jedi Council of the Jedi Order. Adi Galla (spelling?) on the Jedi Council of the Jedi Order. There were other female Jedi, both human and alien (Yaddle, for example, plus she was on the Council). Even that Kamino alien was a woman who received Obi-Wan, clearly an aid to the "mayor" of the city. All of the aliens on the Jedi Council and all of the aliens in the Galactic Senate. There were Republic Senators who were women as well. The captain of the diplomatic ship in TPM in the beginning was a woman. In the Bespin scenes, there were black people walking around. And one of the Bespin guards was black. Also, the Baron Administrator of Cloud City was Lando, a black man. There was a woman serving in the Rebel Alliance's headquarters on Hoth. Mon Mothma, the woman leader of the Rebel Alliance. The woman Rebel pilot in RotJ. The black Rebel pilot in RotJ. If I'm not mistaken, there was some Asian guy as a Rebel pilot too in RotJ. Now why wouldn't there be any people with different colored skin or women as highly-ranked officers in the Empire on ANY of its installments in ALL of the movies if the Empire was not racist or sexist? Hell, the Rebel Alliance, Naboo, and the Jedi Order were HEADED by women. While there are plenty of high-ranking black people in many different organizations and in the Old Republic, there are none in the Empire at all. Out of all of the scenes where you see the bridge crew aboard the Executor, the officers aboard the first Death Star, the high-ranking officials in the meeting room aboard the first Death Star, the scanning crew going onto the Millenium Falcon, the officers on all ISD bridges, the officers in the shield generator bunker on Endor, the AT-ST pilots, the commanders of the AT-ATs, the officers commanding soldiers on Endor, the guards with the shiny black helmets, uniforms, and boots onboard the first Death Star detention center and the Executor bridge, the crews in the hangars, ALL of them are human, white males!!! EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!!! If the movies were intended to show that the Empire was indeed a non-racist, non-sexist organization, it was a sucky attempt to do so. And this is all canon information.
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi
"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith
Agreed, IRG. The Empire is conspicuously white, and British too. They wear what are clearly Naziesque uniforms (though in odd co-incidence, the Imperial weapons props are mainly British like the E-11/Sterling whereas the Rebel propers are German and Nazi from Solo's DL-44/Mauser to what was reportedly a MG-42 or STG-44 in the Rebel base defenses at Hoth.) It would seem that the "bad guys" of SW were designed to resemble a mix of British colonialism or imperialism and plain old facism.
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Agreed, IRG. The Empire is conspicuously white, and British too. They wear what are clearly Naziesque uniforms
WHOA!
Imperials = Nazis
I never made that connection before. Now that I'm thinking about it it makes sense. They both hold up one type of person as an example for all others (humans in SW, aryans in WWII) and persecute anyone who doesn't live up to it.
Hey, you know what? I actually left out a few situations. In the added Bespin scenes, you see an Imperial officer.....guess what? He's a white, male human. I forgot to mention the Imperial officer leading the way when they were delivering Han Solo to the Slave I. Guess what? He's a white, male human. Actually, that turns out that the actor was Jeremy Bulloch, doubling as an officer as well as playing Boba Fett. But I bet that if Jeremy Bulloch was black, he wouldn't have gotten the role. LOL Anyway, as to the weapons they used, you have a few of them mixed up. Han Solo's DL-44 isn't German or British, but Chinese. The big blaster rifles Stormtroopers carried in ANH are unmodified MG-33s. The E-11s are modified British riot control guns. The Rifles Rebel soldiers carry on Hoth are modified MP-44s. Boba Fett's blaster rifle is a modified British flare gun. The Jawa ionization blaster that was used on Artoo was another modified WWII British rifle. Lando's holstered blaster in RotJ is a modified H&K P95 pistol. Leia's RotJ blaster is a modified Soviet manufactured Margolin target pistol, as well as the one in ANH. The blaster Luke Force pulls to him in Jabba's court is a modified German air pistol. Ponda Baba's (the alien who got his arm sliced by Obi-Wan in ANH) blaster is a cut down hunting rifle with a British WWII mortar bomb for the muzzle. Dr. Evazan's (the alien wanted in twelve star systems from ANH) blaster is a modified Swiss submachine gun. I got most of this information from my Star Wars Insider issues. I have more information on this, but I can't find those other issues, lol. That is why all of the blasters in Star Wars look so realistic and familiar. Actually, I just found a site that covers all of this stuff. www.partsofsw.com
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi
"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith
Oh wait, I'm sorry. Han's blaster isn't a Chinese pistol...I guess I got that mixed up with something else. lol It's really a modified "Broomhandle" Mauser pistol.
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi
"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith
Doomriser said, "Agreed, IRG. The Empire is conspicuously white, and British too. They wear what are clearly Naziesque uniforms (though in odd co-incidence, the Imperial weapons props are mainly British like the E-11/Sterling whereas the Rebel propers are German and Nazi from Solo's DL-44/Mauser to what was reportedly a MG-42 or STG-44 in the Rebel base defenses at Hoth.) It would seem that the "bad guys" of SW were designed to resemble a mix of British colonialism or imperialism and plain old facism." So I sorta changed topics. lol
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi
"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith
HEY! I just thought of something! The Empire restricted Holonet access to the military. In other words, people who had internet access suddenly lost it! THAT'S EVIL!!!
