Rise of Skywalker news.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Adam Reynolds » 2019-08-30 06:48am

Vympel wrote:
2019-08-28 11:18am
"TFA didn't effectively communicate XYZ" is not an argument this breed of fans make. It's an argument you're making, and it's a different one that what I'm talking about. The argument I'm referring to is one that refuses to accept what TFA actually communicated - effectively or not - and instead constructs elaborate, convoluted bullshit about why it's TLJ specifically that is wrong, and not their interpretation of TFA. It's simply not my fucking problem that some obtuse fanboy isn't convinced by objective facts of what is and isn't stated in TFA - it's incumbent on them to think "huh, maybe I fucked up but that's the film's fault*", not on me to lead them there.

*and then that argument can be had. For one, the idea that it's entirely a film's fault that a rabid segment of the highly devoted, insular fanbase won't let go of their misconceptions about what it's communicating - no matter how poorly supported or logically incoherent - its laughable. People need to take some personal responsibility for their mistakes.
This I think really is the deeper problem. The Force Awakens set up a situation in which it gave so little information that most people could sort of construct their own narrative around it to make it whatever they wanted. It was sort of a Schrodinger's canon, in which it didn't collapse the states. When The Last Jedi actually did definitively collapse this to a definitive canon, people were suddenly outraged.

I can't say that i was actually outraged, but this sort of applied to me a bit. While I had already thought that The Force Awakens was a less interesting take than the alternative, and that a route more like The Legend of Korra should have been taken, I've sort of fallen out of love with the franchise after Last Jedi. Even an epic RPG retelling of the OT, which was sort of meant as a means of wrapping up the story after the trilogy without creating the First Order, didn't really rekindle the love enough.

Maybe it's a case of it's not the new Star Wars movies, it's me.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by ray245 » 2019-08-30 08:18am

Adam Reynolds wrote:
2019-08-30 06:48am
Vympel wrote:
2019-08-28 11:18am
"TFA didn't effectively communicate XYZ" is not an argument this breed of fans make. It's an argument you're making, and it's a different one that what I'm talking about. The argument I'm referring to is one that refuses to accept what TFA actually communicated - effectively or not - and instead constructs elaborate, convoluted bullshit about why it's TLJ specifically that is wrong, and not their interpretation of TFA. It's simply not my fucking problem that some obtuse fanboy isn't convinced by objective facts of what is and isn't stated in TFA - it's incumbent on them to think "huh, maybe I fucked up but that's the film's fault*", not on me to lead them there.

*and then that argument can be had. For one, the idea that it's entirely a film's fault that a rabid segment of the highly devoted, insular fanbase won't let go of their misconceptions about what it's communicating - no matter how poorly supported or logically incoherent - its laughable. People need to take some personal responsibility for their mistakes.
This I think really is the deeper problem. The Force Awakens set up a situation in which it gave so little information that most people could sort of construct their own narrative around it to make it whatever they wanted. It was sort of a Schrodinger's canon, in which it didn't collapse the states. When The Last Jedi actually did definitively collapse this to a definitive canon, people were suddenly outraged.

I can't say that i was actually outraged, but this sort of applied to me a bit. While I had already thought that The Force Awakens was a less interesting take than the alternative, and that a route more like The Legend of Korra should have been taken, I've sort of fallen out of love with the franchise after Last Jedi. Even an epic RPG retelling of the OT, which was sort of meant as a means of wrapping up the story after the trilogy without creating the First Order, didn't really rekindle the love enough.

Maybe it's a case of it's not the new Star Wars movies, it's me.
I would have applauded the creative team at LFL and Disney if they dared to take the legends of Korra route. Luke and co are dead or retired, and the new generation raised by them have to take up the mantles in a world that's drastically different with different kinds of villains.

But that would require the team to be actually creative and not a bunch of cowards who opts for the safest option possible because of some idiots like RLM screaming to everyone about the prequels and how the OT is perfect and should be emulated beat by beat.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Vympel » 2019-08-30 08:45am

ray245 wrote:
2019-08-29 10:51am
The point about Mark Hamill having a creative disagreement with Rian Johnson is that the people who had issues with the portrayal of Luke Skywalker in TLJ was not limited to a bunch of far-right nuts on some sci-fi forum. That such creative differences can be legitimate.
Depends on the creative difference. If someone asserts that "Luke Skywalker would NEVER do X" it doesn't matter who thinks it - it's just their opinion and there's no reason for anyone else to be bound by it - and that includes if the opinion is coming from Mark Hamill. Would it have been creatively valid to just write Luke as just a wise old Jedi waiting around for a student? Leaving aside TFA for a minute, sure. Does that preclude a different interpretation of the character? No.
I think the fact that those complaints were quite common, AND the fact that people disagreed with the idea that everything has been implied or set up in TFA means there is a failure of communication in those set up and ideas. It's like people complaining about the final episode of GOT. You can say all you want about there being some sort of set-up for Daenerys turning evil, but the fact is there are many people who feel that the set-up isn't enough.

The same applies to Luke. If a decent amount of people felt that the set up was poor, then you have to acknowledge that the set up wasn't as good as it could have been.
There's a difference between 'set up was poor' and 'I constructed a totally different version of the movie and am angry about it'.
Being complimentary yes, because that is being a professional and not insulting your fellow director in front of live TV. But airing the fact that he had creative differences with Rian Johnson in public over the direction of the trilogy comes across as someone being diplomatically reserved about his feelings on Ep 8:

Well Abrams did admit the direction for EP 8 was not what he envisioned. That we know for certain. Exactly what was the creative difference about is something we won't know until a few years down the line, when more behind the scene comments surface.
Well there's a huge amount of scope for a 'different direction' in the plot of a film you didn't write. Not saying "yes I would've done much the same thing" isn't really a criticism but a statement of the obvious given they're two different people coming from different places.
That's a wrong way of approaching film criticism. As a director, you have tremendous control over how you want to frame the story. You decide how the scene in composed, how the scene is edited, how a scene is shot by the cinematographer, and how to make adjustment on the actors' performance.

If a film fails to communicate certain ideas or themes well, very often you can go back to the film itself and think about how a director could have done it better in terms of the script, editing, cinematographer, acting and etc.

The hoo-hah over Rey's parents was a result of what JJ Abrams did in terms of framing the shots of Rey with her parents. The attempt at obscuring Rey's parents can be easily interpreted by many viewers as they being more important than a bunch of junk traders.

Moreover, JJ Abrams have flat out admitted his mistakes about how he framed certain key shots and give the audience the wrong impression of things.

The underwear scene of Alice Eve in Star Trek Into Darkness was seen as being sexist and misogynistic by a number of people, and Abrams admitted his mistakes in how he edited the scene:

https://teamcoco.com/video/conan-highli ... umberbatch

Then there is the famous scene of Chewie walking past Leia in TFA. He admitted he made a mistake too.

So I think you are being far too defensive of directors from criticism, when they can admit their mistakes about misframing certain scenes.
Of course directors can make mistakes - like I said, JJ Abrams just going for the coincidental convenience of R2-D2 having the same navigational archives as the First Order and turning on at just the right moment at the end of the film is an obvious one that lent itself to people forgetting just how bizarre this would be as part of some sort of 'plan' on Luke's part. But the audience still bears responsibility to think critically about a film and pay attention. At its most general level, anytime some dumbass on youtube says a film has a 'plot hole' doesn't mean the director (or the writer) has failed.

Irrespective of any missteps on JJ Abrams part, a huge part of the discourse about TFA/TLJ simply would not exist if there wasn't a highly preconditioned fanbase given to extremely prescriptive ideas about what they wanted and expected in the films, and it's not necessarily doing a good job for the audience as a whole to go out of your way to either mollify or sufficient explain things to them just in case they get the wrong idea.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by ray245 » 2019-08-30 09:24am

Vympel wrote:
2019-08-30 08:45am
Depends on the creative difference. If someone asserts that "Luke Skywalker would NEVER do X" it doesn't matter who thinks it - it's just their opinion and there's no reason for anyone else to be bound by it - and that includes if the opinion is coming from Mark Hamill. Would it have been creatively valid to just write Luke as just a wise old Jedi waiting around for a student? Leaving aside TFA for a minute, sure. Does that preclude a different interpretation of the character? No.
No one else needs to be bound by it. But given that SW is a shared work ( i.e. a sequel of a work that has already been shared with the public), then the audience has a say over how to interpret the character. Reception theory is a thing after all. As such, backlash over the creative differences between the director and the audience is a legitimate concern.
There's a difference between 'set up was poor' and 'I constructed a totally different version of the movie and am angry about it'.
If a movie set up allows a sizeable portion of the audience to view things differently, then it is a failure of filmmaking as a craft. As the director, you can control over what things can be interpreted differently by different people and what things have less room for alternative interpretation.

I recall this review written by Roger Ebert about E.T. ( which also functions as a letter to his granddaughter):

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/grea ... trial-1982
Then there's the scene at the end. E.T. has phoned home, and the spaceship has come to get him. He's in the woods with Elliott. The gangplank on the ship comes down, and in the doorway we can see another creature like E.T. standing with the light behind.

Emil, you said, "That's E.T.'s mommy!'' And then you paused a second, and said, "Now how did I know that?''

We all laughed, because you made it sound funny, as you often do--you're a natural comedian. But remembering it now, I asked myself--how did Emil know that? It could have been E.T.'s daddy, or sister, or the pilot of the ship. But I agree with you it probably was his mommy, because she sounded just like a mommy as she made the noise of calling E.T.

And then I thought, the fact that you knew that was a sign of how well Steven Spielberg made his movie. At 4, you are a little young to understand "point of view,'' but you are old enough to react to one. For the whole movie, you'd been seeing almost everything through the eyes of E.T. or Elliott. By the last moments, you were identifying with E.T. And who did he miss the most? Who did he want to see standing in the spaceship door for him? His mommy.

Of course, maybe Steven Spielberg didn't see it the same way, and thought E.T. only seemed like a kid and was really 500 years old. That doesn't matter, because Spielberg left it open for all of us. That's the sign of a great filmmaker: He only explains what he has to explain, and with a great movie the longer it runs, the less has to be explained. Some other filmmaker who wasn't so good might have had subtitles saying, "E.T.? Are you out there? It's Mommy!'' But that would have been dumb.

And it would have deprived you, Emil, of the joy of knowing it was E.T.'s mommy, and the delight of being able to tell the rest of us.
As the filmmaker, you control over what can be explained in detail and what not to explain in any details. That's filmmaking as a craft and art, and not filmmaking as a science.

Well there's a huge amount of scope for a 'different direction' in the plot of a film you didn't write. Not saying "yes I would've done much the same thing" isn't really a criticism but a statement of the obvious given they're two different people coming from different places.
If someone is in a position where you don't want to offend your fellow director after hearing fans complaining about how TLJ ruined TFA because it didn't go the direction they wanted, they would not reveal any creative differences in public. If I was in Abrams shoes, if I really agreed and like the direction of TLJ, I would not reveal any creative difference and simply ask people to wait for EP 9 to find out.


Of course directors can make mistakes - like I said, JJ Abrams just going for the coincidental convenience of R2-D2 having the same navigational archives as the First Order and turning on at just the right moment at the end of the film is an obvious one that lent itself to people forgetting just how bizarre this would be as part of some sort of 'plan' on Luke's part. But the audience still bears responsibility to think critically about a film and pay attention. At its most general level, anytime some dumbass on youtube says a film has a 'plot hole' doesn't mean the director (or the writer) has failed.
A director has the power to shape how people think. A director can create layers of sub-text for the audience to play around with, and have a very clear understanding how every scene can be carefully framed and constructed to evoke a reaction from the audience. That's why directors like Hitchock and Kurosawa are such celebrated directors, while Abrams has never been in a strong contender as the best director of his generation in awards and etc.

Abram lapsed into too many simple directorial mistakes far too often too often compared to the really really good directors like a Del Toro, Alfonso Cuarón and etc.

Any dumbass on youtube can scream "plot hole" all they want. But if a film is well-made, those people won't have that big of a following. If those youtubers get a following, that's because those dumbass resonated with many audience members to a large degree.
Irrespective of any missteps on JJ Abrams part, a huge part of the discourse about TFA/TLJ simply would not exist if there wasn't a highly preconditioned fanbase given to extremely prescriptive ideas about what they wanted and expected in the films, and it's not necessarily doing a good job for the audience as a whole to go out of your way to either mollify or sufficient explain things to them just in case they get the wrong idea.
A really, really good director can push a narrative in unique and interesting direction by carefully shaping audience expectation by laying the groundwork very very carefully. The problem that arose from TFA/TLJ is largely because the groundwork for the new SW trilogy is terribly done by Abrams.

TFA was a 2 hour non-stop action film, which might work if it is a stand-alone movie, but it created a set of very weak foundation for subsequent writers and directors to follow. Abrams throughout his career has very often established engaging but weak story-telling foundations for his tv series and films. Abrams has never been a director that cares too much about how his stories end, and being chiefly concerned with how it starts.

So the directors must bear the brunt of the responsibility. It's a two way street in terms of how a director engages with his audience ( so the audience does bear some responsibility), but because a director exercise the ultimate creative control and have a greater set of filmmaking tools to shape an audience's experience of a film, they have a much greater responsibility in how a film is interpreted.

I would personally prefer a director to yank the rug out of the fanbase at the very start of the movie, upsetting them initially then using the fresh canvas to slowly ease the audience into getting used to a direction they are not conditioned to. Such approach has worked well in some stories, such as Legend of Korra ( fans wanted a continuation of the original characters, the creators gave them a show where the former lead character is already dead before the start of the show).


I think you are thinking too much like a lawyer when it comes to any discussion of a film. How a film is received is never about people paying attention. An audience of a film is under no obligation to pay attention to anything because it is the job of the director to interest the audience first. Good film directors find ways to get the audience to pay attention, in how they frame the shots, how they make use of sound, composition and etc. Directors tells the cinematographer about what to focus his or her camera on, what sort of theme or music a composer should evoke in certain scenes.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by JI_Joe84 » 2019-09-15 02:34pm

So I am coming into this thread at about page 5 soooo...
One thing I noticed about the SD's is that they are all not the same size. Some in the background are obviously larger than the rest, plz tell me I'm not the only one seeing that?
Evil Ray is a dead ringer for the evil dark side cave on degobah, so I don't believe the Ray goes dark side camp.
There is rumors that Ray is a clone possibly a intentionally force sensitive clone, like starkiller from that game. That seems likely and maybe the evil Ray we see is another clone sent to face her or take her place and end the resistance once and for all.
The black chick seems like a new GF for fin, I sincerely hope that's not the case, but again seems likely, though it is a trailer and it's not like they spoof expectations just to throw off speculation.
Maybe Rose's actress decided she had enough of the racists and went for a more low-key role? Maybe she (the character Rose) got fired after the casino run? Maybe she is time out or maybe she went back to her maintenance job? At least I think that was what she was doing when she ran into Fin.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-09-23 10:35pm

JI_Joe84 wrote:
2019-09-15 02:34pm
So I am coming into this thread at about page 5 soooo...
One thing I noticed about the SD's is that they are all not the same size. Some in the background are obviously larger than the rest, plz tell me I'm not the only one seeing that?
Evil Ray is a dead ringer for the evil dark side cave on degobah, so I don't believe the Ray goes dark side camp.
There is rumors that Ray is a clone possibly a intentionally force sensitive clone, like starkiller from that game. That seems likely and maybe the evil Ray we see is another clone sent to face her or take her place and end the resistance once and for all.
The black chick seems like a new GF for fin, I sincerely hope that's not the case, but again seems likely, though it is a trailer and it's not like they spoof expectations just to throw off speculation.
Maybe Rose's actress decided she had enough of the racists and went for a more low-key role? Maybe she (the character Rose) got fired after the casino run? Maybe she is time out or maybe she went back to her maintenance job? At least I think that was what she was doing when she ran into Fin.
Oh God, I can just see them doing that. Minimize Rose to pander to the misogynist racist scum that harrassed her off actor off social media (her complete absence from the trailers is very telling), then introduce a new black woman just to be Finn's girlfriend at the last minute, 'cause people have to stick with their own kind donchaknow. Which means they're also probably sinking Rey/Finn, best case scenario because they want to go back to the "Jedi aren't allowed to have attachments" bullshit (a betrayal of the Jedis' growth over the course of the franchise) and worst case because they're going to have Rey go evil at the last minute (ie Daenerys Mk II), or have her "redeem Kylo with the Power of Wuv" at the end to please the Reylo shippers (ie, send the message to every domestic abuse victim that if they keep giving their abuser a second chance, eventually he'll change).

I mean, its too soon to say, but with Game of Thrones' ending and the minimization of Captain Marvel/fridging of Black Widow (and, previously, Gamora) in Endgame, I've been getting the feeling for a while now that the Powers That Be in Hollywood have decided "Okay, that little female and non-white leads fad has run its course, now let's go back to making movies that white male conservatives are comfortable with." Or alternately, "We'll let you have your female/non-white lead, as long as they get sidelined/die/turn evil in the last act and make way for the white men to save the day in the end." Hell, I bet Kylo's going to be redeemed and end up being the one who saves the day, too.

I really hope they don't do that, but that's where I feel like this is going. If it is, then I will have to acknowledge that the ST derailed the franchise, albeit for the opposite reasons as a lot of the people saying that.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by NecronLord » 2019-09-24 10:02am

Or they could sideline her because being quite frank, her character isn't actually very engaging. I have nothing against K.M. Tran but the writing for her character would apsire to be merely weak from where it was, and her character seems deeply directionless. I wouldn't miss Rose at all. Not everything is a tory plot.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-24 10:45am

NecronLord wrote:
2019-09-24 10:02am
Or they could sideline her because being quite frank, her character isn't actually very engaging. I have nothing against K.M. Tran but the writing for her character would apsire to be merely weak from where it was, and her character seems deeply directionless. I wouldn't miss Rose at all. Not everything is a tory plot.
Yeah. I liked the movies and I have absolutely no strong feelings about her or real interest in seeing what happens with her. Oddly enough I can stand that with the protagonist (I don't find Rey interesting, which is matched by the fact that I only started caring much about Luke as a character after the original movies) but for a secondary character like her...shrug.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Khaat » 2019-09-24 10:59am

Just reading through TRR's last post there: "everything anyone ever does will be pandering to someone". How about we wait for them to actually jump the shark before standing up to defend under-represented sharks (and those who love them, event hose who love them too much), and literally everyone else, ok?

Rose, from the 2-3 times I've watched TLJ, joined because her sister joined, but she was "the heart" while her sister was "the fighter". Not a character I'm invested in: "let's free the abused animals (to be slaughtered later, because it's off-screen), but not the abused children, ok?" Oh, hey, I love the part where her sister dies doing what Rose stopped Finn from doing: stopping the bad guys now so they can't do it any more, because you really should subject those you love to more suffering (after denying them agency over their own lives in a battle to the death with evil).

So points for TRR: looks like deus ex machina The Force Wuv Saves the Day after all. Congratulations, ReyLo!

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Galvatron » 2019-09-24 11:07am

I think the next movie will have to be long enough even without yet another pointless Canto Bight-ish subplot. If Rose is extraneous to advancing the story in some meaningful way, I have no problem with letting them Jar Jar her to the sidelines.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Ralin » 2019-09-24 11:50am

Personally I'm still upset that Jar Jar hasn't even been mentioned in this trilogy.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-24 08:06pm

So now it's clear that what we got in Ep 7 was not what Lucas wanted to begin with. Good, I can now treat the entire sequel trilogy as being completely pointless and non-canon in my head.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Gandalf » 2019-09-24 08:10pm

ray245 wrote:
2019-09-24 08:06pm
So now it's clear that what we got in Ep 7 was not what Lucas wanted to begin with. Good, I can now treat the entire sequel trilogy as being completely pointless and non-canon in my head.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/georg ... 202176208/
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-24 08:15pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-09-24 08:10pm

Couldn't you do that before?
I've done it before. I'm just glad we have official confirmation that I can treat Ep 7-9 as being entirely different from what Lucas intended.

One of the reason I was initially interested in Ep 7 was because I want to know how Lucas could have done something quite different from the boring EU post-ROTJ stories. Now that I know none of what Lucas wrote actually ended up in the final script, there is no reason for me to care that much about Ep 7-9.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Galvatron » 2019-09-24 08:29pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-09-24 08:10pm
ray245 wrote:
2019-09-24 08:06pm
So now it's clear that what we got in Ep 7 was not what Lucas wanted to begin with. Good, I can now treat the entire sequel trilogy as being completely pointless and non-canon in my head.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/09/georg ... 202176208/
Couldn't you do that before?
Why are so many people pretending that this is news? We've known for years that Disney chose not to use the script treatments that Lucas wrote for the sequel trilogy.

And I'm still not convinced that they made a mistake with that decision.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-09-24 08:45pm

Khaat wrote:
2019-09-24 10:59am
Just reading through TRR's last post there: "everything anyone ever does will be pandering to someone". How about we wait for them to actually jump the shark before standing up to defend under-represented sharks (and those who love them, event hose who love them too much), and literally everyone else, ok?

Rose, from the 2-3 times I've watched TLJ, joined because her sister joined, but she was "the heart" while her sister was "the fighter". Not a character I'm invested in: "let's free the abused animals (to be slaughtered later, because it's off-screen), but not the abused children, ok?" Oh, hey, I love the part where her sister dies doing what Rose stopped Finn from doing: stopping the bad guys now so they can't do it any more, because you really should subject those you love to more suffering (after denying them agency over their own lives in a battle to the death with evil).

So points for TRR: looks like deus ex machina The Force Wuv Saves the Day after all. Congratulations, ReyLo!

Writers and movie makers fuck up great ideas all the time, that's what this trilogy has been so far.
Honestly, this mostly just comes off as bitter trolling because I don't hate the same characters you do/because Rose wasn't a HARD MAN MAKING HARD CHOICES WHILE HARD.

And I don't have to wait to observe that, at the very least, they have made sure not a glimpse of Rose appears in the trailers. Some solidarity with an actor who was subject to vicious racist and misogynist harassment would have been nice, rather than responding by minimizing any sign of her involvement.

Also, telling people to "wait" to stand up for victims of harassment and marginalization sounds tone-deaf and privileged at best.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-25 05:33am

Galvatron wrote:
2019-09-24 08:29pm
Why are so many people pretending that this is news? We've known for years that Disney chose not to use the script treatments that Lucas wrote for the sequel trilogy.

And I'm still not convinced that they made a mistake with that decision.
Some people are still defending the idea that what we got in the end was a natural evolution of what Lucas intended. You might not think it is a mistake, but I think you're wrong in the long run. While the individual movies in the sequel era might be enjoyable for a fair number of people, I think you guys have traded short term benefits for long term harm to the franchise, as the post-ROTJ era will feel very stagnant in the long run.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Khaat » 2019-09-26 11:04am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-09-24 08:45pm
Also, telling people to "wait" to stand up for victims of harassment and marginalization sounds tone-deaf and privileged at best.
I am immediately offended and personally attacked by that statement! See? I can do it, too.
But here, let me paraphrase your statement: "If we don't take offense at what they might do, we won't be on the bleeding edge!"

I'm fully in agreement that marginalizing her in the trailer which has been released is grounds for taking offense, but the movie itself which has not yet been released cannot be blamed for committing a possible offense until it offends. Was Minority Report a road map for you? Do you have three psychics in bathtubs in your basement we don't know about?

Are you going to post a retraction if/when they don't do what you've already accused them of doing in the film that hasn't been released? (Yeah, I expect them to step in it, too, but gotta let them commit the crime). Because I KNOW you will crow about it if they do step in it and actually deliver on your threats to marginalize Rose, because that's easier than recognizing that they aren't driving this franchise responsibly, and that letting directors make each film into film-school-project directions with low- to no cohesion as a trilogy is actually a Bad Thing.

And another point: I can and do fully support the actor Kelley Tran while I can and do think the character she was hired to portray was not personally engaging for me, poorly developed, and "undercooked" as a part/role. Too much going on in the story to properly develop a character? That's on the writers/director. I don't "hate" the character Rose, I'm just not engaged in her story: she wouldn't be there if not for her sister, she's rudderless, she's a cut-out character to support Finn's C-line story.

Go ahead, keep presuming I'm into "hard man making hard decisions while hard" crap. It's fun to see your ad hominem go undisciplined. "But it was carefully couched in language so it isn't a direct attack", it's just your fucking preamble.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Galvatron » 2019-09-26 01:25pm

As I've suggested before, Rose could be a good protagonist for a new series on Disney+ set during the gaps in the sequel trilogy era.

After all, they're giving Cassian Andor his own show and we already know how his story ends.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Vympel » 2019-09-27 07:43am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-09-23 10:35pm
Oh God, I can just see them doing that. Minimize Rose to pander to the misogynist racist scum that harrassed her off actor off social media (her complete absence from the trailers is very telling), then introduce a new black woman just to be Finn's girlfriend at the last minute, 'cause people have to stick with their own kind donchaknow. Which means they're also probably sinking Rey/Finn
I'm confused - Rey/Finn isn't a thing? Rose/Finn is definitely a thing in TLJ. Rey/Ben is quite obviously a thing in TLJ and Bendemption is quite obviously a thing in the ST. I've heard all the arguments about what sort of 'message' this sends but I'm with the shippers on this one, and it would be astoundingly hypocritical for me - someone who scoffs at the baseless fake conservative moral panic about video games causing gun violence, to worry about what 'message' a film might send just because the movie might employ the enemies-in-love trope as part of Ben's redemption. Star Wars is a fairy tale, people know the difference between fiction and reality.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-27 08:12am

Vympel wrote:
2019-09-27 07:43am
Star Wars is a fairy tale, people know the difference between fiction and reality.
I disagree. People as a whole are terrible at understanding the line between fiction and reality. We like to claim we are good at separating the difference, but whether we as a whole actually do is another issue altogether.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Vympel » 2019-09-27 08:26am

ray245 wrote:
2019-09-27 08:12am
I disagree. People as a whole are terrible at understanding the line between fiction and reality. We like to claim we are good at separating the difference, but whether we as a whole actually do is another issue altogether.
Luckily, society seemed to survive Padme Amidala excusing Anakin Skywalker being a child murderer and Darth Vader's soul being saved, so I don't think we need to worry too much about what 'message' is being sent by a Star Wars movie.
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-27 09:44am

Vympel wrote:
2019-09-27 08:26am
Luckily, society seemed to survive Padme Amidala excusing Anakin Skywalker being a child murderer and Darth Vader's soul being saved, so I don't think we need to worry too much about what 'message' is being sent by a Star Wars movie.
I do know people who have excused Anakin's actions, so what's being depicted on screen can affect people's viewpoints and attitudes.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-10-02 01:34am

How It Should Have Ended Episode IX predictions:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=HEbulmDiDEw
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Re: Rise of Skywalker news.

Post by Vympel » 2019-10-03 09:06am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-10-02 01:34am
How It Should Have Ended Episode IX predictions:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=HEbulmDiDEw
LOL. Kind of weird that Loki is even there but I'll take it.
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