Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by Batman » 2019-06-16 10:53pm

I'm not sure how that's a plot hole. We know nothing about how, when, and under what circumstances or to which extent Force Ghosts can interact with the real world.
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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-16 10:59pm

Batman wrote:
2019-06-16 10:53pm
I'm not sure how that's a plot hole. We know nothing about how, when, and under what circumstances or to which extent Force Ghosts can interact with the real world.
True, but the problem with it is that, as I said, it raises the question of why they don't intervene more often? Its at best a huge question, one with massive implications for the entire franchise, begging for an answer. At worst, it makes Yoda look like a dick for sitting on the sidelines when he could be frying Snoke and Kylo. On the other hand, would we want a world where our fates were dictated by the intervention of those who died hundreds of years ago? Etc.

Its like Cap marrying Peggy in the past in Endgame. Its a really nice bit of fanservice on the surface, which has more and more troubling implications for the franchise the more thought you put into it.

Having it being an illusion ties the problem up nicely.
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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by Batman » 2019-06-16 11:09pm

Thanks a bunch for the Endgame spoiler :x
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-16 11:13pm

Batman wrote:
2019-06-16 11:09pm
Thanks a bunch for the Endgame spoiler :x
Sorry. The movie's been out long enough now I'd have figured most everyone who wanted to had seen it, but I'll ask a mod to put a spoiler warning on it.

Edit: Too late to edit the post myself, but I've Pm-d a mod and asked them if they could spoiler tag it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by Batman » 2019-06-16 11:26pm

Don't worry about it too much. Most everybody wanting to see it in theatres likely HAS already seen it. I'm part of the 'waits for the DVD' crowd
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-16 11:35pm

Another one I like:

Luke met Ahsoka some time between RotJ and TFA. He invited her to join his Jedi Academy as a teacher, but she declined.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2019-06-17 01:02pm

Your "Palpatine possesses Kylo" theory is, while pretty neat, very similar to the light-side ending to Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, when the spirit of Marka Ragnos posses the body of Tavion (via his sceptre that she was wielding) and gets into a fight with Jaden.
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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by Solauren » 2019-06-17 06:00pm

Possible reason for limited real world Force Ghost interaction.

In the novels of ROTJ, Yoda was very surprised that Qui Jon was able to contact him from beyond death.

It was greatly implied that this was the first time Yoda had heard of anything like that.

If that's the case, then all 'previous' Force ghost interaction (previous in the timelines), either didn't happen, or it's very bloody rare.

If it turns out, Ben and Yoda are the first 'Force Ghosts', they probably don't know the limits of their own powers.
It's also possible that Yoda was singularly powerful.
It's also possible that Yoda mind tricked Luke, and the original temple is in fact fine.

It's also possible, as that was the sight of the First Jedi Temple, it has a unique connection to the Force, and that let Yoda interact with the real world.
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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-17 10:24pm

Solauren wrote:
2019-06-17 06:00pm
Possible reason for limited real world Force Ghost interaction.

In the novels of ROTJ, Yoda was very surprised that Qui Jon was able to contact him from beyond death.

It was greatly implied that this was the first time Yoda had heard of anything like that.

If that's the case, then all 'previous' Force ghost interaction (previous in the timelines), either didn't happen, or it's very bloody rare.

If it turns out, Ben and Yoda are the first 'Force Ghosts', they probably don't know the limits of their own powers.
It's also possible that Yoda was singularly powerful.
It's also possible that Yoda mind tricked Luke, and the original temple is in fact fine.

It's also possible, as that was the sight of the First Jedi Temple, it has a unique connection to the Force, and that let Yoda interact with the real world.
Interesting possibilities.

But I doubt Yoda would be more powerful than Anakin, and it still begs the question of why Yoda doesn't intervene more often. And they've had decades to learn how to use their powers.

It being the nature of the Temple itself is probably the most compelling, other than it simply being an illusion Yoda crafted.
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"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by Solauren » 2019-06-18 05:39pm

I'm personally more in favor of 'Unique temple', and possibly the connection between Luke and Yoda.

And Anakin now showing up beyond the end of ROTJ, it's possible, as he spent so long as Darth Vader, he simply can't. To much Dark Side left in him to properly do that very often.

Even in legends, he only showed up once that I can remember to his own children (to Leia, during Truce of Bakura), and then not for over a century, to his descendent, Cade Skywalker, and only then, it was only in visions.
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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-22 04:35pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
2019-06-17 01:02pm
Your "Palpatine possesses Kylo" theory is, while pretty neat, very similar to the light-side ending to Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, when the spirit of Marka Ragnos posses the body of Tavion (via his sceptre that she was wielding) and gets into a fight with Jaden.
All the better. The average movie-goer will probably be unfamiliar with it and be surprised, and the hard core fans will see it as a possible shout out to Legends.

Edit: Another one I've mentioned before, but-

In TLJ, Snoke talks about the idea of the Force creating Light Side champions to rise up every time the Dark Side gets strong, which I take as implying that there are multiple Chosen Ones, and that Rey is one of them, an Anakin equivalent. But extending it further-

Luke was not the Light Side counterpart to Vader- he was the Light Side counterpart to Palpatine. Anakin was meant to be, but after he fell, the Force shaped Luke to take his place. Luke is Palpatine's foil, in that they both triumph mainly through Force-augmented psychology, through understanding their opponents and manipulating their emotional and psychological state, rather than through direct force. Palpatine manipulates people to corrupt them, while Luke tries to bring out the best in them (Vader) or turn their weaknesses against them (Kylo). Thus, both men are able to win battles they could never have won through direct combat (destroying the entire Jedi Order and Republic for Palpatine, destroying the Empire/Sith and defeating Kylo's army for Luke).

Luke is Palpatine's opposite number, basically a Light Side version of Palpatine. He was the champion for the Light Side, and Palpatine was the champion for the Dark Side. Anakin's soul was the battle ground.

Its possible that there are also certain weaker Force users who were meant to face one another/be one another's opposite number, and would posit Kenobi and Maul as a possible example.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

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Re: Favorite Star Wars theories, head canons, etc.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-22 04:48pm

The whole Palpatine/Luke relationship can be summed up by this exchange when they first meet in RotJ:

Luke: "Your overconfidence is your weakness."

Palpatine: "Your faith in your friends is your's."

Both men immediately grasp at the other's key psychological weak point, and it foreshadows how their conflict will play out. Palpatine attempts to manipulate Luke's fear for his friends to drive him to lash out and succumb to the Dark Side, while Luke banks on Palpatine's arrogance. Luke, of course, ultimately wins by turning his weakness (emotional attachment) into a strength (refusing to kill Vader and ultimately redeeming him), and Palpatine loses when his arrogance blinds him to Vader's impending betrayal and the destruction of the Death Star by the Rebels.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"Trump admirers like @TuckerCarlson describe themselves as "nationalist." But their nationalism attaches not to the multiracial American nation... but to a multinational white race with a capital in Moscow"-David Frum

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