Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by ray245 » 2019-05-17 06:55am

Jub wrote:
2019-05-17 06:29am
ray245 wrote:
2019-05-17 06:19am
It's really easy for a white guy in a white majoirty country to say to others you need to integrate better.

At this point, you're just digging a hole for yourself.
Because being an insular minority group is sooo healthy for all involved, right? Obviously, you weren't born in or aren't currently living in China for a reason. Clearly, China wasn't working for your parents, grandparents, or yourself and that's caused you to live outside of China. So rather than claiming to be Chinese, when you're actually from another country why not claim your actual nationality and bring up your Chinese ancestry when relevant?

My Grandparents left the Netherlands and moved to western Canada for a reason. That reason was the economic depression in post-WWII Europe and cheap farmland being offered in Canada. They weren't born here and are certainly Dutch, but my parents are Canadians and I'm a Canadian as well. Tell me what I would gain by insisting that I'm Dutch by ethnicity and answering that I'm Dutch in a place where people would be expecting to hear that I'm Canadian?
What makes you think I'm part of an insular minority group? Every assumption you've made about me is only reinforcing your racism to me.
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Jub » 2019-05-17 07:17am

ray245 wrote:
2019-05-17 06:55am
What makes you think I'm part of an insular minority group? Every assumption you've made about me is only reinforcing your racism to me.
Referring to yourself as a particular ethnicity rather than as a citizen of the nation you reside in is an insular trait. That it's common among certain groups, such as the Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Punjabis, etc. and especially to members of those groups in predominately white nations doesn't make it a desirable trait.

The only one who gives a single shit about your nationality/ethnicity in this thread is you. You asked if I knew what country you lived in and based on your own statements of being Chinese as well as stating that you grew up watching wuxia, a primarily Chinese style of storytelling, I guessed that you were actually in China. You then started making your ethnicity an issue as if anybody gives two shits where you're from.

For the record, I don't care where you currently reside nor do I especially care that you call yourself Chinese even though you live outside of China. I do care that your upbringing, which you brought up, seems to have altered your taste in films so badly that you consider the Prequel movies to be on par with the OT and that you find any fight paced slower than staged wushu nonsense to be boring. I also care that China as a nation is propping up the lowest common denominator level of film as profitable because those sorts of films tend to crowd out the type of films that I find more enjoyable.

Your calls of racism are meaningless to the topic of this thread and I wish I'd never taken your bait about your ethnicity/nationality because it has zero barring on this discussion.

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by ray245 » 2019-05-17 07:27am

Jub wrote:
2019-05-17 07:17am
ray245 wrote:
2019-05-17 06:55am
What makes you think I'm part of an insular minority group? Every assumption you've made about me is only reinforcing your racism to me.
Referring to yourself as a particular ethnicity rather than as a citizen of the nation you reside in is an insular trait. That it's common among certain groups, such as the Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Punjabis, etc. and especially to members of those groups in predominately white nations doesn't make it a desirable trait.

The only one who gives a single shit about your nationality/ethnicity in this thread is you. You asked if I knew what country you lived in and based on your own statements of being Chinese as well as stating that you grew up watching wuxia, a primarily Chinese style of storytelling, I guessed that you were actually in China. You then started making your ethnicity an issue as if anybody gives two shits where you're from.

For the record, I don't care where you currently reside nor do I especially care that you call yourself Chinese even though you live outside of China. I do care that your upbringing, which you brought up, seems to have altered your taste in films so badly that you consider the Prequel movies to be on par with the OT and that you find any fight paced slower than staged wushu nonsense to be boring. I also care that China as a nation is propping up the lowest common denominator level of film as profitable because those sorts of films tend to crowd out the type of films that I find more enjoyable.

Your calls of racism are meaningless to the topic of this thread and I wish I'd never taken your bait about your ethnicity/nationality because it has zero barring on this discussion.
Considering you're going on a whole tirade about how a entire country has inferior cultural taste compared to you, and how you keep going on about "why can't you all be white like me", how does that not come across as racist?

Yes. Clearly saying my upbringing has made me inferior compared to you don't make you look like a racist. :roll:
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Jub » 2019-05-17 07:40am

ray245 wrote:
2019-05-17 07:27am
Considering you're going on a whole tirade about how a entire country has inferior cultural taste compared to you, and how you keep going on about "why can't you all be white like me", how does that not come across as racist?
I've also said that I dislike that North American audiences still go to see these movies. The fact is that some of these movies are starting to wane in terms of their box office share only to be propped up by Chinese audiences thus ensuring that we'll be seeing more of them for years to come.
Yes. Clearly saying my upbringing has made me inferior compared to you don't make you look like a racist. :roll:
You are the one who brought it up. You specifically said that growing up watching wushu and wuxia made you unable to enjoy any fight with slower pacing.

"I find that they lack the dynamism of a staged fight. I'm used to wushu performances or Chinese opera troupes performing duels on stage at a rapid pace, and by the OT and ST fights by comparison, is just too slow for me.

This is the kind of performance I grew up watching and learn to love."

"Anything that's more "realistic" or slower than that is just boring to me."

You brought up your background and call me racist for commenting on it. Fuck you.

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by ray245 » 2019-05-17 07:46am

Jub wrote:
2019-05-17 07:40am
I've also said that I dislike that North American audiences still go to see these movies. The fact is that some of these movies are starting to wane in terms of their box office share only to be propped up by Chinese audiences thus ensuring that we'll be seeing more of them for years to come.
But yet you single Chinese audiences as if being brought up in a Chinese cultural context will make them inferior compared to you. You are the one bringing up box office numbers and making claims about the only movies that will appeal to them is "big dumb action movies"


You are the one who brought it up. You specifically said that growing up watching wushu and wuxia made you unable to enjoy any fight with slower pacing.

"I find that they lack the dynamism of a staged fight. I'm used to wushu performances or Chinese opera troupes performing duels on stage at a rapid pace, and by the OT and ST fights by comparison, is just too slow for me.

This is the kind of performance I grew up watching and learn to love."

"Anything that's more "realistic" or slower than that is just boring to me."

You brought up your background and call me racist for commenting on it. Fuck you.
I stated the reasons why I have my personal preferences, and I never said everyone needs to share my personal preferences.

You are the one that make it about how that makes me inferior to you, because of my cultural upbringing.

The way you engage a discussion with someone from a different cultural background is the thing that's making you come across as a racist. Because it all boils down to "How dare people make movies and enjoy movies that I hate"
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Jub » 2019-05-17 07:57am

ray245 wrote:
2019-05-17 07:46am
But yet you single Chinese audiences as if being brought up in a Chinese cultural context will make them inferior compared to you. You are the one bringing up box office numbers and making claims about the only movies that will appeal to them is "big dumb action movies"
The movies from the west that go over and do well in China are all big dumb action flicks. I can tell that by the box office figures. I don't care if Chinese people also watch more cultured homegrown movies because that doesn't have an influence on the movies I get to see in the theater over here. For this reason, I care primarily about how Chinese viewing habits influence Hollywood and the movies it produces and because of that, I find it worrying that Chinese audiences seem to disproportionately like movies that are considered low brow over here.
I stated the reasons why I have my personal preferences, and I never said everyone needs to share my personal preferences.

You are the one that make it about how that makes me inferior to you, because of my cultural upbringing.
You've stated in this very thread that people only like the fights in the OT because it's the OT. So get off your high horse and go fuck yourself with it.
The way you engage a discussion with someone from a different cultural background is the thing that's making you come across as a racist. Because it all boils down to "How dare people make movies and enjoy movies that I hate"
Race has never been central to my argument. I brought up China when it comes to dumbing down film tastes because Chinese viewership of some really terrible movies has incentivized making more movies like them. If it was India, the UK, or Russia exerting the same influence I'd make the same complaints. That this is or was ever about race or nationality is all in your head.

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by ray245 » 2019-05-17 09:08am

Jub wrote:
2019-05-17 07:57am
The movies from the west that go over and do well in China are all big dumb action flicks. I can tell that by the box office figures. I don't care if Chinese people also watch more cultured homegrown movies because that doesn't have an influence on the movies I get to see in the theater over here. For this reason, I care primarily about how Chinese viewing habits influence Hollywood and the movies it produces and because of that, I find it worrying that Chinese audiences seem to disproportionately like movies that are considered low brow over here.
If you don't like them, don't watch them?

You've stated in this very thread that people only like the fights in the OT because it's the OT. So get off your high horse and go fuck yourself with it.
And I've never said people are wrong for having that preferences?

You are the one that seems to get upset if people have different parameters for enjoying a movie.
Race has never been central to my argument. I brought up China when it comes to dumbing down film tastes because Chinese viewership of some really terrible movies has incentivized making more movies like them. If it was India, the UK, or Russia exerting the same influence I'd make the same complaints. That this is or was ever about race or nationality is all in your head.
Different cultures enjoy films for different reasons. Many Hollywood movies are no longer strictly American films because there is no way studios can recoup the cost of production on most blockbusters without the international markets.

If you want to watch a big expensive Hollywood blockbuster, then I think you can no longer see them as a solely American movies. These are now global movies meant for a global market. So their success lies in being able to cater for a diverse and global population.

The movie industry is moving away from being traditionally Amercian, and especially White Amercian centric. This is why diversity is becoming an increasing important issue for Hollywood, because they need to tap into the tastes and preferences of different segments of population at large.

You don't have to like or enjoy such movies, but I don't think you have much of a right to degrade the preferences of the non-white North Americans.

You can acknowledge movies as being not for you. And that's being perfectly reasonable. It's not reasonable to belittle other cultures.

The fact that you feel compelled to mock people's taste in movies on the basis of their IQ, ethnicity, and social status comes off as a rather distasteful person to me.


Race becomes an issue because you made gross assumptions about a person on the basis of their ethnicity.
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Jub » 2019-05-17 09:58am

ray245 wrote:
2019-05-17 09:08am
If you don't like them, don't watch them?
So, and assume that YouTube doesn't exist for this example, which channel can I tune into to watch 2001 Discovery Channel, TLC, or History? Where can I go to watch something actually educational on TV these days? The answer is nowhere, it got crowded out by reality TV and appealing to idiots who wanted to watch staged versions of blue-collar workers and because it's so cheap to produce it pushed out all the other shows those channels used to run. The same is happening to movies with all of a studios budget placed into a few mega-Blockbusters designed to displease nobody as opposed to pleasing anybody.

If you want to think of a genre that has basically died out due to this butts in seats PG-13 mentality look at the R-rated action genre. It's pretty much dead because families can't take their kids to see it. If you're a fan of a movie like Dredd tough shit have some Transformers instead.
And I've never said people are wrong for having that preferences?

You are the one that seems to get upset if people have different parameters for enjoying a movie.
You keep pushing for more action which is directly opposed to the kind of Star Wars movie I want to see. I like the OT, I like Rogue One, I like the slower more thoughtful movies that still have spectacle but don't over do it like the 30-minute CGI-splosions ladden fights in a Transformers movie.
Different cultures enjoy films for different reasons. Many Hollywood movies are no longer strictly American films because there is no way studios can recoup the cost of production on most blockbusters without the international markets.

If you want to watch a big expensive Hollywood blockbuster, then I think you can no longer see them as a solely American movies. These are now global movies meant for a global market. So their success lies in being able to cater for a diverse and global population.
If the international audience wants pablum for their masses I say fuck them and because China is currently lapping up that pablum, more so than even the US, I currently say fuck them.
The movie industry is moving away from being traditionally Amercian, and especially White Amercian centric. This is why diversity is becoming an increasing important issue for Hollywood, because they need to tap into the tastes and preferences of different segments of population at large.
I have nothing against diversity. If I did would my favorite movie of all time be a Swedish film based off of a Swedish novel? I wouldn't imagine so. I don't care if we get new styles, I don't want all style no substance which seems to be what China and India want out of Hollywood. Nor do I particularly care for their most well-known styles of filmmaking. If they start asking Hollywood for more complex works, I'll cheer them for their good tastes but if the trend is "check if this will play in China and get past their censors" I want none of it.

I would like more movies like Dredd or like Let the Right One In to get made. I want more anime to make it to theaters following on the heels of DBS: Broly. I'd like my tastes to get some presence in theaters or on TV each year as opposed to being expected to go gaga for the MCU, GoT, and reality TV.
Race becomes an issue because you made gross assumptions about a person on the basis of their ethnicity.
I never assumed your ethnicity, I assumed you were from China because you said you were Chinese. Most North Americans will state their country when asked what kind of question or when introducing themselves. It would be like me saying I'm Dutch and then laughing at you because you assumed I was from the Netherlands. At worst a misunderstanding brought about by cultural differences.

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by ray245 » 2019-05-17 05:15pm

Jub wrote:
2019-05-17 09:58am
So, and assume that YouTube doesn't exist for this example, which channel can I tune into to watch 2001 Discovery Channel, TLC, or History? Where can I go to watch something actually educational on TV these days? The answer is nowhere, it got crowded out by reality TV and appealing to idiots who wanted to watch staged versions of blue-collar workers and because it's so cheap to produce it pushed out all the other shows those channels used to run. The same is happening to movies with all of a studios budget placed into a few mega-Blockbusters designed to displease nobody as opposed to pleasing anybody.
BBC America? Netflix? Streaming services?
If you want to think of a genre that has basically died out due to this butts in seats PG-13 mentality look at the R-rated action genre. It's pretty much dead because families can't take their kids to see it. If you're a fan of a movie like Dredd tough shit have some Transformers instead.
You're blaming people for not being interested in the same kind of movie you like? That's not their problem.

You keep pushing for more action which is directly opposed to the kind of Star Wars movie I want to see. I like the OT, I like Rogue One, I like the slower more thoughtful movies that still have spectacle but don't over do it like the 30-minute CGI-splosions ladden fights in a Transformers movie.
Hollywood doesn't exist to serve your taste alone. It exist to serve the widest possible audience possible. Because at the end of the day, they actually need to make money back on their investment. Blockbusters tend to have very low ROI.
If the international audience wants pablum for their masses I say fuck them and because China is currently lapping up that pablum, more so than even the US, I currently say fuck them.
And I suppose they can say fuck you back you? Because all you are doing now is just whining about how Hollywood don't cater to your taste.
I have nothing against diversity. If I did would my favorite movie of all time be a Swedish film based off of a Swedish novel? I wouldn't imagine so. I don't care if we get new styles, I don't want all style no substance which seems to be what China and India want out of Hollywood. Nor do I particularly care for their most well-known styles of filmmaking. If they start asking Hollywood for more complex works, I'll cheer them for their good tastes but if the trend is "check if this will play in China and get past their censors" I want none of it.

I would like more movies like Dredd or like Let the Right One In to get made. I want more anime to make it to theaters following on the heels of DBS: Broly. I'd like my tastes to get some presence in theaters or on TV each year as opposed to being expected to go gaga for the MCU, GoT, and reality TV.
Yes you do. You have a problem with people that enjoy movie that is "all style no substance". You dislike an entire cultural form of movie making because it doesn't fit your N American "sensibilities". You get upset over people having a different preferences from you and mock them for being culturally inferior.

I never assumed your ethnicity, I assumed you were from China because you said you were Chinese. Most North Americans will state their country when asked what kind of question or when introducing themselves. It would be like me saying I'm Dutch and then laughing at you because you assumed I was from the Netherlands. At worst a misunderstanding brought about by cultural differences.
Yes you did. I mentioned I enjoy wuxia performances. You immediately made the assumption that I'm Chinese even though I said nothing about that. You then assume I must be from China, even though I said nothing about that. You then assume I'm from a country where Chinese are the minority, even when I said nothing about that.


So it's relatively easy for me to see you as being rather racist. You made assumptions about my nationality, ethnicity purely on the basis that I've linked a video about Wushu.

The world doesn't exist to cater for your taste. Grow up.
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Jub » 2019-05-18 01:28am

ray245 wrote:
2019-05-17 05:15pm
BBC America? Netflix? Streaming services?
Nope, none of those are full replacements in the TV sphere.
You're blaming people for not being interested in the same kind of movie you like? That's not their problem.
Look at the home release sales of a movie like Dredd, it made back its money and then some after a rough theatrical run, no sequel even though the home release had garnered excellent word of mouth and key people involved actively wanted to make a second movie. It's not even that something has to make money, its that it has to make all of the money and thus everything is made to appeal a little to everybody and offend nobody. Is this a style of film making that you feel produces art?
Hollywood doesn't exist to serve your taste alone. It exist to serve the widest possible audience possible. Because at the end of the day, they actually need to make money back on their investment. Blockbusters tend to have very low ROI.
Then I question why they keep making them instead of taking risks on say, four smaller productions with more focused niches and a better chance to make an actual return.
And I suppose they can say fuck you back you? Because all you are doing now is just whining about how Hollywood don't cater to your taste.
Hardly, if you read what I'm actually saying rather than projecting your own carebear attitudes on everything I'm against media trying less to be something to someone and becoming a medium that strives simply to offend nobody and make a quick buck. Something which you seem to support only because the current style plays to your own braindead tastes in flashy hyper-active scenes.
Yes you do. You have a problem with people that enjoy movie that is "all style no substance". You dislike an entire cultural form of movie making because it doesn't fit your N American "sensibilities". You get upset over people having a different preferences from you and mock them for being culturally inferior.
Is being all style no substance and in your own words good 'as a summer popcorn flick' actually worth a damn in anything besides the financial sense? Are you telling me that if there wasn't a blockbuster movie that appealed to your tastes that you wouldn't turn around and see something else instead?

Yes you did. I mentioned I enjoy wuxia performances. You immediately made the assumption that I'm Chinese even though I said nothing about that. You then assume I must be from China, even though I said nothing about that. You then assume I'm from a country where Chinese are the minority, even when I said nothing about that.

So it's relatively easy for me to see you as being rather racist. You made assumptions about my nationality, ethnicity purely on the basis that I've linked a video about Wushu.
That would be true if there was only this discussion to go by. You've called yourself Chinese on these forums multiple times, which I remembered, in spite of living in Singapore, the part I forgot. Your not, in the western sense of the term, Chinese you're a Singaporean of Chinese descent the same way I'm a Canadian of Dutch descent but go on and tell me about how somehow you're still Chinese in spite of that and how I'm racists for saying that you're actually Singaporean.

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by ray245 » 2019-05-18 06:53am

Jub wrote:
2019-05-18 01:28am
Nope, none of those are full replacements in the TV sphere.
Why not? Netflix is now producing full seasons worth of documentaries.
You're blaming people for not being interested in the same kind of movie you like? That's not their problem.
Look at the home release sales of a movie like Dredd, it made back its money and then some after a rough theatrical run, no sequel even though the home release had garnered excellent word of mouth and key people involved actively wanted to make a second movie. It's not even that something has to make money, its that it has to make all of the money and thus everything is made to appeal a little to everybody and offend nobody. Is this a style of film making that you feel produces art?
Films can make back their money on DVD sales, but investors tend to dislike the idea of relying on DVD sales because it takes too long to earn back their investments.

Films are art, but major blockbusters primary purpose is to entertain the masses like a roller-coaster ride. Is a roller-coaster ride "art"?

Then I question why they keep making them instead of taking risks on say, four smaller productions with more focused niches and a better chance to make an actual return.
Because risk cost money. People don't want to risk their money on a risky project that might only cater to a niche audience.

Hardly, if you read what I'm actually saying rather than projecting your own carebear attitudes on everything I'm against media trying less to be something to someone and becoming a medium that strives simply to offend nobody and make a quick buck. Something which you seem to support only because the current style plays to your own braindead tastes in flashy hyper-active scenes.
There is smaller and medium size budget movies that are often there to aim a shot at best picture every year. The big Hollywood blockbusters aren't interested in doing that, because the audiences are different.

There's two very different audiences in regards to movies. There's an audience that likes to watch all the drama and "art" films that have a shot at best picture every year, and there is an audience that will only be interested in watching the big action-blockbusters.

Is being all style no substance and in your own words good 'as a summer popcorn flick' actually worth a damn in anything besides the financial sense? Are you telling me that if there wasn't a blockbuster movie that appealed to your tastes that you wouldn't turn around and see something else instead?
Yes. Because summer( even though more and more of them are released outside of the summer) popcorn flicks are relaxing fun, and I get to shut down my brain for 2 hours and just enjoy the visual experience. If I am watching a slowly drama movie like The Shape of Water, I walk into the cinema with a very different attitude.

I categorise the two types of films differently and I have different sets of expectations.

That would be true if there was only this discussion to go by. You've called yourself Chinese on these forums multiple times, which I remembered, in spite of living in Singapore, the part I forgot. Your not, in the western sense of the term, Chinese you're a Singaporean of Chinese descent the same way I'm a Canadian of Dutch descent but go on and tell me about how somehow you're still Chinese in spite of that and how I'm racists for saying that you're actually Singaporean.
Singapore has a dominant Chinese majority population, with Chinese being one of the major official language in the country. The Chinese ethnic population in Singapore can speak and understand Mandarin. I have described myself as an ethnic Chinese, but I have never said anything about being from China.

And for fuck sake, the video of the Wushu competition said it took place in Singapore.

The "western sense of the term" is a shit approach to use because the "western sense of term" is rooted heavily in racist thoughts. Only of the big reason why European ancestry plays less of a role in North America is in part due to the creation of a "white" ethnic group that distinguish North European population against population from rest of the world. Being of Dutch descent in N. America is not a problem because you are all seen as "white" in North America.

To apply a "western" approach towards other culture is problematic because the "western" world has spent centuries colonising the world and setting up "western" enclaves in the past. You said you are from Canada, and are you unaware of the history of racism in Canada?

Canada itself have a horrible history when it comes to exclusion of "non-White" population, especially Chinese population. The Canadian government had specifically excluded Chinese migrants to Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_I ... _Act,_1923

The Canadian government apologised for such this act...in 2014.

Considering your tangent of thought went from "I dislike Chinese style of action" to "I dislike Chinese audiences for what they have done to my Hollywood movies", to "Chinese population must do more to integrate" and finally to "you are not Chinese"... you are coming off as a massive racist.

If you had left your argument merely as a case of "sorry, Chinese style of action isn't for me", no one would have said you are a racist. It's only when you feel you need to degrade and call a entire country as being culturally inferior to you as a White North American, then it really looks like you have a problem with another culture for being too different to yours.
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Jub » 2019-05-18 07:19am

ray245 wrote:
2019-05-18 06:53am
Why not? Netflix is now producing full seasons worth of documentaries.
Yes, watching documentaries about the lives of celebrities and criminals is such a good replacement for the educational content that used to be broadcast on Discovery, TLC, and the History Channel. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Films can make back their money on DVD sales, but investors tend to dislike the idea of relying on DVD sales because it takes too long to earn back their investments.
I think I've made it clear that I don't much care about those concerns.
Films are art, but major blockbusters primary purpose is to entertain the masses like a roller-coaster ride. Is a roller-coaster ride "art"?
You mean sculptures of wood and steel, carefully designed to be safe and yet thrilling, often lovingly themed and painted to generate excitement even before you sit down in their cars. I'd say that they tend to be a lot more artistic than the average paint by numbers blockbuster. That said, there are also a lot of generic copies of other rollercoasters designs which would not get such praise from me.
There is smaller and medium size budget movies that are often there to aim a shot at best picture every year. The big Hollywood blockbusters aren't interested in doing that, because the audiences are different.
Oscar bait can be even worse than summer blockbusters but for very different reasons.
There's two very different audiences in regards to movies. There's an audience that likes to watch all the drama and "art" films that have a shot at best picture every year, and there is an audience that will only be interested in watching the big action-blockbusters.
What about the audience in between those extremes that don't want mindless action but aren't sold on an up is own ass Terrence Malick movie?
Yes. Because summer( even though more and more of them are released outside of the summer) popcorn flicks are relaxing fun, and I get to shut down my brain for 2 hours and just enjoy the visual experience. If I am watching a slowly drama movie like The Shape of Water, I walk into the cinema with a very different attitude.

I categorise the two types of films differently and I have different sets of expectations.
You could shut your brain down and stare at a wall if all you wanted was a moment to de-stress.
The "western sense of the term" is a shit approach to use because the "western sense of term" is rooted heavily in racist thoughts. Only of the big reason why European ancestry plays less of a role in North America is in part due to the creation of a "white" ethnic group that distinguish North European population against population from rest of the world. Being of Dutch descent in N. America is not a problem because you are all seen as "white" in North America.
Other groups are free to create their own exclusive club if they so wish. I'm fine with that.

I'm also fine with standing out were I to visit a nation such as China, Singapore, the Philippines etc. It's their country and I won't look, act, or talk like a native that could mean that I have a hard time fitting in or getting work over there but that would be a choice I make by going there.
To apply a "western" approach towards other culture is problematic because the "western" world has spent centuries colonising the world and setting up "western" enclaves in the past.
China had a shot to expand but they blew it. The same with Japan. While I disagree with what the west did as they 'colonized' the world I'm not going to be upset that the west rose to power.
You said you are from Canada, and are you unaware of the history of racism in Canada?
Of course, I know about how awful Canada has been to the Chinese, Japanese, our Native/First Nations populations, and other groups. We're not nearly so bad in the present day so why bring it up?

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The Romulan Republic
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-19 07:12am

Jub wrote:
2019-05-18 07:19am
China had a shot to expand but they blew it. The same with Japan. While I disagree with what the west did as they 'colonized' the world I'm not going to be upset that the west rose to power.
Wow.
Of course, I know about how awful Canada has been to the Chinese, Japanese, our Native/First Nations populations, and other groups. We're not nearly so bad in the present day so why bring it up?
Racist claims racism isn't a big deal any more so we should just stop talking about it!

In other news, bears shit in the woods.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by KraytKing » 2019-05-19 11:40am

Why is it so incredibly unreasonable for Jub to say he thinks "Chinese" should refer to nationality rather than ethnicity? It's a matter of semantics.


And on movies, the subject actually at hand, it boggles my mind how us, nerds on a forum called STAR DESTROYER, with the motto "...mockery of stupid ideas," can criticize someone for not liking the way movies are progressing. I dislike it as well. Modern tastes are leading to bigger, more mindless movies. These can have their place, but they aren't taking their place, their annexing all forms of cinema and coming to dominate the game. And yes, Chinese audiences are partially at fault if these movies do well over there. That is not to say they will ALWAYS be at fault, nor that they are somehow less developed intrinsically.
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by KraytKing » 2019-05-19 11:46am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-19 07:12am
Jub wrote:
2019-05-18 07:19am
China had a shot to expand but they blew it. The same with Japan. While I disagree with what the west did as they 'colonized' the world I'm not going to be upset that the west rose to power.
Wow.
What is so offensive about this? Historically, they blew it. Not because they were Chinese, but because of leaders, geography, mindset, what have you. I'm not going to blame Western expansion on the Chinese, that was a fault of the western empires. Look at Germany, if it's the fact that they aren't white that bothers you. Germany was fucked in Europe for centuries because they weren't unified, they weren't powerful. This is at least partially the fault of the Germans for not unifying. When they did, they stopped getting fucked. For a while.

China got its shit together in this last century. Before that, even before the British and other westerners arrived and started actively trying to crush Chinese advancement, the Chinese did not advance. Again, NOT because they weren't white, but because of other factors that easily could have affected any nation. Christ.
If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
--Mace

The Old Testament has as much validity for the foundation of a religion as the pattern my recent case of insect bites formed on my ass.
--Solauren

I always get nervous when I hear the word Christian.
--Mountain

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-19 11:48am

KraytKing wrote:
2019-05-19 11:46am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-19 07:12am
Jub wrote:
2019-05-18 07:19am
China had a shot to expand but they blew it. The same with Japan. While I disagree with what the west did as they 'colonized' the world I'm not going to be upset that the west rose to power.
Wow.
What is so offensive about this? Historically, they blew it. Not because they were Chinese, but because of leaders, geography, mindset, what have you. I'm not going to blame Western expansion on the Chinese, that was a fault of the western empires. Look at Germany, if it's the fact that they aren't white that bothers you. Germany was fucked in Europe for centuries because they weren't unified, they weren't powerful. This is at least partially the fault of the Germans for not unifying. When they did, they stopped getting fucked. For a while.

China got its shit together in this last century. Before that, even before the British and other westerners arrived and started actively trying to crush Chinese advancement, the Chinese did not advance. Again, NOT because they weren't white, but because of other factors that easily could have affected any nation. Christ.
Maybe the part where he openly says he supports Western rule over the world?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by KraytKing » 2019-05-19 12:23pm

In my experience, Western does not always mean geographically west, but rather, the ideas that historically came from that part of the world. Not that such ideas originated in what we now call the West, either. But what is now referred to as the West is a generally good thing. It was a good thing when it existed in the Middle East during the Dark Ages of Europe. It is a good thing now that it exists in China and other geographically eastern regions, using the usual Europe-biased map. I'm not trying to ascribe words to Jub; he maybe a racist. But when I say I support Western rule, I mean I support the rule of ideas that are now called Western. The ideas that are now called Eastern are bad, and I would not support it if they ruled currently, regardless if that meant the world order was based in Mecca or Berlin.
If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
--Mace

The Old Testament has as much validity for the foundation of a religion as the pattern my recent case of insect bites formed on my ass.
--Solauren

I always get nervous when I hear the word Christian.
--Mountain

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Bob the Gunslinger » 2019-05-19 12:39pm

This whole thread became unnecessary after Ray said "wushu Yoda worked". That's all you need to know. You can't reach him.
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-19 12:44pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
2019-05-19 12:39pm
This whole thread became unnecessary after Ray said "wushu Yoda worked". That's all you need to know. You can't reach him.
I actually agree that Yoda's saber scenes were excellent, and worked for that character. Its the only way someone of his small stature could fight, and he has the Force power to do it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Bob the Gunslinger » 2019-05-19 01:02pm

The idea that Yoda, the mystical, wise Jedi Master, fights with a saber at all is the biggest portion of the problem. Same thing with Palpatine, really. However, even granting Yoda's saber fighting as necessary, the spinning gibbering "crack monkey" approach was objectively terrible. Objectively. Measurable with big numbers and stuff. Charts and graphs. Terrible.
"Gunslinger indeed. Quick draw, Bob. Quick draw." --Count Chocula

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by KraytKing » 2019-05-19 01:53pm

God DAMMIT I love you, Gunslinger. I would take it a step further and say that Palpatine or indeed most users of the Force fighting like God damn ninjas is ridiculous. Those that use the Force for its direct combat applications should be special, not the norm. Tyranus being a duelist is cool. Vader and Maul, same. But suddenly Palpatine, who didn't even have a lightsaber in the original trilogy, is doing all sorts of flips and shit instead of just playing it cool, Littlefinger-style.
If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
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I always get nervous when I hear the word Christian.
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Gandalf » 2019-05-19 04:51pm

KraytKing wrote:
2019-05-19 12:23pm
In my experience, Western does not always mean geographically west, but rather, the ideas that historically came from that part of the world. Not that such ideas originated in what we now call the West, either. But what is now referred to as the West is a generally good thing. It was a good thing when it existed in the Middle East during the Dark Ages of Europe. It is a good thing now that it exists in China and other geographically eastern regions, using the usual Europe-biased map. I'm not trying to ascribe words to Jub; he maybe a racist. But when I say I support Western rule, I mean I support the rule of ideas that are now called Western. The ideas that are now called Eastern are bad, and I would not support it if they ruled currently, regardless if that meant the world order was based in Mecca or Berlin.
So when people that the west deemed racially inferior and need of civilising were ethnically cleansed from their lands, this was good, or is this practice no longer deemed "western?"
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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by Jub » 2019-05-19 05:45pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-05-19 04:51pm
So when people that the west deemed racially inferior and need of civilising were ethnically cleansed from their lands, this was good, or is this practice no longer deemed "western?"
That would be bad and its something that the all involved shouldn't have done. We should be working to correct those attitudes and to work with extant populations to meet their ongoing needs if they haven't found their own ways to meet them in the intervening years. This might mean educating aboriginal populations about the fact that washing their faces prevents blindness or ensuring the first nations leaders know how to apply for funding to get new infrastructure built in their community.

Just because I do think there is a lot of good in 'western culture' doesn't mean that it hasn't also produced its share of atrocities. By the same token, just because another group hasn't mastered the techniques of film to the same degree as a major Hollywood studio, which can hire the most skilled casts and crews, doesn't make their cultural output inferior to ours. It simply means that audiences from 'the west' might not engage with those products the same way those regions engage with a Hollywood blockbuster carefully designed to attract viewers and offering something for everyone.

-----

Dealing with TRRs shit.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-19 07:12am
Jub wrote:
2019-05-18 07:19am
China had a shot to expand but they blew it. The same with Japan. While I disagree with what the west did as they 'colonized' the world I'm not going to be upset that the west rose to power.
Wow.
So China used its edge in technology and population to become a world power in an age where Europe was still fragmented and weak then? Given that they didn't, nor did any of the other cultures when they were more powerful than the nations of Europe, it's fair to say that the ball has been fumbled more than once. Even the west fumbled it with the fall of Greece and Rome, we were just lucky enough to get another chance.
Of course, I know about how awful Canada has been to the Chinese, Japanese, our Native/First Nations populations, and other groups. We're not nearly so bad in the present day so why bring it up?
Racist claims racism isn't a big deal any more so we should just stop talking about it![/quote]

Nah, this is just the wrong thread for it. If Ray wants to make a thread about how awful Canada has been to non-white populations over the years I'll be happy to engage him over there.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-19 11:48am
Maybe the part where he openly says he supports Western rule over the world?
You're going to quote on this, right?

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Re: Vader vs Obi-Wan fight fanfilm

Post by KraytKing » 2019-05-19 07:14pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-05-19 04:51pm
KraytKing wrote:
2019-05-19 12:23pm
In my experience, Western does not always mean geographically west, but rather, the ideas that historically came from that part of the world. Not that such ideas originated in what we now call the West, either. But what is now referred to as the West is a generally good thing. It was a good thing when it existed in the Middle East during the Dark Ages of Europe. It is a good thing now that it exists in China and other geographically eastern regions, using the usual Europe-biased map. I'm not trying to ascribe words to Jub; he maybe a racist. But when I say I support Western rule, I mean I support the rule of ideas that are now called Western. The ideas that are now called Eastern are bad, and I would not support it if they ruled currently, regardless if that meant the world order was based in Mecca or Berlin.
So when people that the west deemed racially inferior and need of civilising were ethnically cleansed from their lands, this was good, or is this practice no longer deemed "western?"
As Jub said, not everything has to be good to be a net gain. Yes, genocide. Also, science. Sure, would have been nice without the genocide, but at least now we live in a world mostly without genocide and with a lot of science.
If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
--Mace

The Old Testament has as much validity for the foundation of a religion as the pattern my recent case of insect bites formed on my ass.
--Solauren

I always get nervous when I hear the word Christian.
--Mountain

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

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