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Hmmm....

It looks pretty, I'll give it that. And an A wing to be the cherry on top.

But I'm worried. To go from TFA to TLJ, anything done in TRS will have to contradict either TFA or TLJ since those two danced and dueled around competing themes and mystery boxes.

That said, it would totally epic and thematic of the overall evil sorcerer/fallen knight theme embedded in Star Wars, if some crumpled evil clone of Palpatine was holed up in the fortress made from the ruins of the Deathstar and our plucky heroes have to go in there and destroy him for good.

The more I ruminate on it, the more I really hope that "Skywalker" becomes some sort of title, and that it's not just a space wizard thing limited to those with blessed divine lineage. To go from "only the special chosen magic space guy can save the day" to a wider, popular determination of the galaxy's fate would be awesome and welcome.

Otherwise, sweet looking trailer.

Knife wrote: ↑2019-04-13 10:45am Hmmm....

It looks pretty, I'll give it that. And an A wing to be the cherry on top.

But I'm worried. To go from TFA to TLJ, anything done in TRS will have to contradict either TFA or TLJ since those two danced and dueled around competing themes and mystery boxes.

That said, it would totally epic and thematic of the overall evil sorcerer/fallen knight theme embedded in Star Wars, if some crumpled evil clone of Palpatine was holed up in the fortress made from the ruins of the Deathstar and our plucky heroes have to go in there and destroy him for good.

I don't see those two as clashing all that much. Some details may shift but probably nothing major. Though of course some new stuff that recontextualizes both will definitely happen.

Is no one going to mention the ISD-I with Old Republic red markings similar to the old Venators?

Well, this entire mess could be blamed for the decision to dump 30+ years of expanded universe material. I'll wait for it to come out and watch spoilers then see it on Nexflix. I am just not vested in the series anymore.

Aether wrote: ↑2019-04-13 03:44pm Well, this entire mess could be blamed for the decision to dump 30+ years of expanded universe material. I'll wait for it to come out and watch spoilers then see it on Nexflix. I am just not vested in the series anymore.

How do you reach that conclusion?

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-13 03:24am It depends how its done. If her being a Skywalker is what qualifies her as a Jedi, sure. But that's unlikely, I think. The point of TLJ is that she was already worthy of being a Jedi because of who she is, and the trailer opens with narration about how she already knows all they can teach her or somesuch.

Then let her be a Jedi and establish a new dynasty of her own. A story where different Jedi dynasties rise and fall and be replaced will make a more compelling narrative than reaffirming the importance of the Skywalker dynasty.

I hated the whole Skywalker dynasty in the Star Wars legacy comic series. It will be nice to have a story where the Skywalkers still exist, but they no longer have a semi-monarchical right to lead the Jedi Order because other Jedi dynasties are much more capable than them.

Instead, the teaser suggest the Skywalker legacy can never be allowed to fade away into irrelevancy like most of the dynasties of Europe.

Okay, I like when they do new things, but this is getting a bit too draconian about it. I didn't take "let the past die" (which was what Kylo said, you know, the villain) to mean "no character can ever associate with or look up to a previous character".

When I talk about let the past die, I interpret it as a way of moving on from the "Skywalkers are always the most important family in the Galaxy" storylines. The Skywalkers are the past, they had their shining moment and their namesake does not guarantee them a right to define what the Jedi Order is all about.

I see it as a passing of the torch from one famous dynasty to newcomers with no famous family legacy. But nope, Skywalker must "rise" in Ep 9. Somehow.

In fact, the end of TLJ showed that Luke would inspire a new generation of rebels and Force users who would be inspired by his example, and follow his lead. TLJ isn't about throwing away everything from the past (other than Kylo's position, perhaps)- its more about not being bound by the institutions of the past while preserving their spirit.

And this undermines the "hero's journey" of Rey. Her legacy is reduced to a role of carrying the torch for Luke rather than a brand new Jedi in her own right, with her example that inspire a new generation of Jedi knights.

Also, who said anything about "Luke's secret lovechild"? We're talking about her being symbolically or metaphorically a Skywalker. A Skywalker by association.

I am saying I am not ruling out Rey being Luke's secret lovechild. My opinion of JJ Abrams as a director as a writer is low enough that I can envision him doing that.

I think by making Skywalkers the main focus of EP 9, it is an indication that the torch has not been truly passed to a whole new generation. The new generation's achievement is defined by how well they carried the legacy of the old characters, rather than ST being a trilogy about their achievements.

Aether wrote: ↑2019-04-13 03:44pm Well, this entire mess could be blamed for the decision to dump 30+ years of expanded universe material. I'll wait for it to come out and watch spoilers then see it on Nexflix. I am just not vested in the series anymore.

You mean Disney+? In no way will this be streamed through Netflix.

Aether wrote: ↑2019-04-13 03:44pm Well, this entire mess could be blamed for the decision to dump 30+ years of expanded universe material. I'll wait for it to come out and watch spoilers then see it on Nexflix. I am just not vested in the series anymore.

Eh, not really. Setting aside the logic there, kinda hard to say this is any worse than the old EU. The overwhelming majority of that stuff was shit, even by the standard of young adult licensed fiction.

Ender wrote: ↑2019-04-13 09:48pm Eh, not really. Setting aside the logic there, kinda hard to say this is any worse than the old EU. The overwhelming majority of that stuff was shit, even by the standard of young adult licensed fiction.

Yes. Putting (whatever your least favorite SW movie is) in the same league as some of that stuff is laughable. A fair amount was ok or fun but had problems if you thought about it.


Even the good bits are often tied with not-so-good bits, and some of the famous bits are not-so-good.

Amusingly, it took less than 24 hours for the Episode IX teaser to accumulate 4M more views than the Solo teaser currently has. The argument that Solo just wasn't that interesting (amongst all its other hurdles) to the general audience than the main saga is pretty firmly established I think.

Vympel wrote: ↑2019-04-14 01:50am Amusingly, it took less than 24 hours for the Episode IX teaser to accumulate 4M more views than the Solo teaser currently has. The argument that Solo just wasn't that interesting (amongst all its other hurdles) to the general audience than the main saga is pretty firmly established I think.

Indeed.

The irony, of course, is that Solo seems, superficially at least, like a movie made for the people who hate the Sequels, and TLJ in particular. Its set in the OT, with an OT character as the lead (a white male one at that, for those who care about that), and has references, major plot points even, that flat-out don't make sense unless you're at least enough of a Star Wars fan to have watched the animated shows (Maul's appearance). Its a movie for fanboys, not casual viewers.

And it sank like a stone.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-14 02:05am Indeed.

The irony, of course, is that Solo seems, superficially at least, like a movie made for the people who hate the Sequels, and TLJ in particular. Its set in the OT, with an OT character as the lead (a white male one at that, for those who care about that), and has references, major plot points even, that flat-out don't make sense unless you're at least enough of a Star Wars fan to have watched the animated shows (Maul's appearance). Its a movie for fanboys, not casual viewers.

And it sank like a stone.

I see this as a case of Disney fundamentally misunderstanding the fandom. Disney/LFL had been listening and catering to the fanbase that have been the most vocal online in the past, which tends to be the "OT-purist". But opinions and taste in the fandom has changed and evolved. The fanbase might be hyped for a Han Solo movie 15 years ago, but times and mood have changed.

For example, I see people getting more excited about an Ewan Mcgregor Obi-Wan movie than a Han Solo movie. But Disney is incapable of understanding this, as they were too busy making movies about Boba Fett and etc.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-14 02:05am Indeed.

The irony, of course, is that Solo seems, superficially at least, like a movie made for the people who hate the Sequels, and TLJ in particular. Its set in the OT, with an OT character as the lead (a white male one at that, for those who care about that), and has references, major plot points even, that flat-out don't make sense unless you're at least enough of a Star Wars fan to have watched the animated shows (Maul's appearance). Its a movie for fanboys, not casual viewers.

And it sank like a stone.

Yeah I think it could've done well if they hadn't released it on the long-since irrelevant Memorial Day Weekend (used to be a big box office time period, hasn't been since 2008 when Iron Man basically single-handedly brought forward the summer scehdule in the same way the Force Awakens did in 2015) and all the other shit that was flying in its face, but it's a stereotypical 'fan' movie and Star Wars movies' success are not determined by stereotypical fans (the actual fandom is much wider, I'm talking about the internet archetype rather than the wider group). As a group they/we are capricious, insular, prone to gatekeeping, preoccupied with lore and references, and skew older and male. Unlike the ST, that movie was very unlikely to make new fans.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-14 02:05am

Vympel wrote: ↑2019-04-14 01:50am Amusingly, it took less than 24 hours for the Episode IX teaser to accumulate 4M more views than the Solo teaser currently has. The argument that Solo just wasn't that interesting (amongst all its other hurdles) to the general audience than the main saga is pretty firmly established I think.

Indeed.

The irony, of course, is that Solo seems, superficially at least, like a movie made for the people who hate the Sequels, and TLJ in particular. Its set in the OT, with an OT character as the lead (a white male one at that, for those who care about that), and has references, major plot points even, that flat-out don't make sense unless you're at least enough of a Star Wars fan to have watched the animated shows (Maul's appearance). Its a movie for fanboys, not casual viewers.

And it sank like a stone.

It also had a chaotic production process and was sent out to die next to Infinity War.

That said the idea of character prequels was always bad. We don’t need or want to see the events that made Han into a disaffected smuggler only in it for the money because we’ve already seen the arc that made him not be that.

Vendetta wrote: ↑2019-04-14 04:04am It also had a chaotic production process and was sent out to die next to Infinity War.

That said the idea of character prequels was always bad. We don’t need or want to see the events that made Han into a disaffected smuggler only in it for the money because we’ve already seen the arc that made him not be that.

Pretty much, yeah. I think that applies to pretty much any character whose story is already over, too.

Vendetta wrote: ↑2019-04-14 04:04am That said the idea of character prequels was always bad. We don’t need or want to see the events that made Han into a disaffected smuggler only in it for the money because we’ve already seen the arc that made him not be that.

The thing about Solo is that it doesn't even show him become an disaffected smuggler at all. He's basically a stand up bloke who does the right thing and saves the day and helps the rebellion etc. He's not actually ever the callous out for himself smuggler he's supposed to be at the start of ANH.

And it implies (though with wiggle room for sequels) that his next job is going to be the one he fucks for Jabba. So basically he was never a competent smuggler at all either, he did two jobs and fucked em both up.

And I say that as someone who found Solo basically harmless and entertaining.

Another reason I think that Palpatine in the trailer is a mistake- it gets expectations up. Now everyone's going to be expecting Palpatine to be the main villain. Either he isn't, and its a small role, and everyone's disappointed... or he is, and then Rey's going to beat him, and the cries of "Mary Sue" will break the internet. Either way, you're going to get millions of outraged fans.

Star Wars Celebration Episode IX panel hosted by Steven Colbert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnhiLZOprZE

Some interesting stuff regarding The Rise of Skywalker here.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-04-14 07:20am Star Wars Celebration Episode IX panel hosted by Steven Colbert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnhiLZOprZE

Some interesting stuff regarding The Rise of Skywalker here.

Can you surmise?

ANYWAY I think it's not really Palpatine as the main antagonist. I swear I hope to hell it ain't. MAYBE Kylo in his madness and worship of the lore and shit, his incel nerd MRA toxic fanboysim and shit, he goes to the Death Star 2 ruins to try to absorb the evil. Maybe there IS the essence of Palpatine there... but it's not a personal fight against him, it's more a struggle against what his essence represents. So it's not just Palpatine, it's the sins of the past and all that, sure solidified by the fade of Palpatine and his laugh... but all the regrets and evils that were done, that's the core of it. For aside from Palpatine, Vader also died there.

Holy shit so the Rise of Skywalker will see Kylo being corrupted by the darkness of the past (represented by Palpatine)... but he is defeated and saved by Rey who then channels the goodness that came from that place too. For while Kylo thought that place represents Ultimate Evil, the core of the Dark Side and the remains of Sidious and Vader... that was also the site of Anakin Skywalker's redemption and Luke's triumph. If Palpatine's evil is within there, so is Anakin's last good deed. And Luke's probably around as a ghost.

So Rey channels this, Kylo is either saved or destroyed or both, and the calling of Anakin and Luke's acts are what's seen as the Rise of Skywalker and what Rey brings with her as she founds a new order honoring that, the Skywalker legacy.

I bet we'll see an image of Anakin's purest moment to vanquish the abomination possessing Kylo, the shade of Sidious screaming as pure white envelops him and erases him, his cackles and shrieks drowned out by the hearty gleeful cry of YIPEEE!

Summarize... hmm, well, there's a lot, but some highlights, from memory:

-John Boyega confirms that Phasma is dead, and gives a nod to the Finn/Poe shippers alongside the Rey/Finn/Rose triangle.

-Ridley playing coy about ReyLo.

-New female black character. Inevitably everyone is speculating that she's Lando's daughter (the actor, when asked, simply says that Lando, as a charmer, could have kids all over the galaxy).

-Abrams is quite complimentary of Johnson, and reiterates that his favorite addition of Johnson's is Rose/Tran. A nice fuck off to the haters on that score.

-Apparently Carrie Fisher and her daughter have some scenes together.

-A new droid character.

-Some nice photos, including one of Kylo in what looks like a Palpatine-esque Supreme Leader throne. As an aside, Rey's all-white outfit is really growing on me.

-Heavy implication that we'll be seeing some new powers from Rey, but nothing specific.

-Steven Colbert really knows his Star Wars trivia, with a reference to Noghiri and possible references to Force Unleashed and Flow-Walking, among others.

The Romulan Republic wrote:-Abrams is quite complimentary of Johnson, and reiterates that his favorite addition of Johnson's is Rose/Tran. A nice fuck off to the haters on that score.

I do hope that you're above the age of 15 as the term "hater" is juvenile... I for one do not care about Rose. It's not about the actress, I think Kelly Marie Tran did an adequate job given what she had to work with, but the character was badly written and didn't bring any qualities to TLJ (not that TLJ had many qualities to begin with). That the character also was involved in the most idiotic scene in any of the Star Wars movies doesn't help her case.

Rose crashes into Finns skimmer and says afterwards that: "We're not going to win this for fighting against what we hate, but by fighting for what we love." (People who says that Lucas writes bad dialogue should take a good listen to that tripe.) Not only did Rose almost got both of them killed in vain, she also didn't consider the consequences of her actions and that those actions could've led to the destruction of the Resistance (or is it Rebels again?) as well as themselves and preventing Finn from saving the Res... Rebels, effectively putting her own needs and wants first. This felt strange as she praised her sister's self-sacrifice when she first met Finn. And then that kiss: After no chemistry whatsoever between Finn and Rose, that came right out of the blue. And yes, the "master codebreaker" subplot was stupid as heck.

Shroom Man 777 wrote: ↑2019-04-14 10:46am ANYWAY I think it's not really Palpatine as the main antagonist. ...

Baron Palpatin will take over Rey of the Knife.

Mange wrote: ↑2019-04-14 12:30pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:-Abrams is quite complimentary of Johnson, and reiterates that his favorite addition of Johnson's is Rose/Tran. A nice fuck off to the haters on that score.

I do hope that you're above the age of 15 as the term "hater" is juvenile...

You know what's juvenile? Opening your post with an unprovoked insult/ad hominem. But then, I dare to like TLJ, and clearly that is an unforgivable sin in the Star Wars fandom.

I for one do not care about Rose.

Yes, clearly. Which is why you felt the need to state this before going into a diatribe about how badly written the character is, etc, etc.

It's not about the actress, I think Kelly Marie Tran did an adequate job given what she had to work with, but the character was badly written and didn't bring any qualities to TLJ (not that TLJ had many qualities to begin with). That the character also was involved in the most idiotic scene in any of the Star Wars movies doesn't help her case.

Rose crashes into Finns skimmer and says afterwards that: "We're not going to win this for fighting against what we hate, but by fighting for what we love." (People who says that Lucas writes bad dialogue should take a good listen to that tripe.) Not only did Rose almost got both of them killed in vain, she also didn't consider the consequences of her actions and that those actions could've led to the destruction of the Resistance (or is it Rebels again?) as well as themselves and preventing Finn from saving the Res... Rebels, effectively putting her own needs and wants first. This felt strange as she praised her sister's self-sacrifice when she first met Finn. And then that kiss: After no chemistry whatsoever between Finn and Rose, that came right out of the blue.

I mean, a person who's just lost probably her last remaining family not wanting to lose someone else she cares about... unthinkable.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: characters should be written as people, not tactical computers programmed for MAXIMUM HARD MAN PRAGMATISM. But apparently most fans online don't seem to get that.

In any case, from what I recall, there is every indication is that Finn would have died before he could take out the enemy canon, rendering it a pointless death.

And yes, the "master codebreaker" subplot was stupid as heck.

It was a lighter diversion from the main plot which furthered Finn's character development. I'm pretty sure it only attracts such venom because of a toxic combination of it starring non-white characters, general Rose hate, and "animal rights sucks Hur Dur".

I'd say one problem with TLJ is that it uses typical framing for stuff like Poe of that suicide run to the point that details like how the suicide run was going to fail get lost in cliches like "this dangerous efforts looks like it's going to fail and a bunch of people think it will, but it just about succeeds in a shocking dramatic way". So, everyone assumes Finn was going to succeed, because that's how scenes like that go.