Gunhead wrote: ↑
ray245 wrote: ↑
There's an option Holdo can do if she feels she cannot be responsible for leading the resistance members. Step down from command. That's a thing. If you chose not to step down the responsibility, then it is your responsibility not to screw things up further.
This really is part of the dissonance between what we are told about Holdo and what she does in the movie. I can't think of a single moment where she actually leads anyone or anything yet Poe talks her up being a commanding officer with combat experience and seems at least partially impressed by her record.So it's more than likely her peers and close subordinates agreed that she should be in charge as the most experienced and ranking.
Or she assumed command because she was next in the chain of command.
And while the film's misdirection and subsequent reveal necessarily appear at odds with each other, we can't just dismiss out of hand that Holdo was apparently considered fit to command a warship by Leia, and apparently had a notable combat record.
As to on-screen leadership, its hard to judge because we never see much of her interacting with anyone but Poe and Leia. She gives a speech, carries out Leia's evac plan with the likely addition of the stealth transports, and pilots the Raadus on its final suicide run. That's about it.
But this isn't followed up at all. She berates Poe for using up the whole bomber wing but she never presents anything that would suggest that saving the bombers was paramount or that there would have been a chance later on to use those bombers to greater or equal effect. Yea sure, there's no need to tell Poe, but if she would have lamented losing the bombers later on so the audience can see it, her berating Poe would have made more sense.
Not only is there no need to tell Poe, but there is no need to have a specific plan in mind for the bombers at that moment to know that preserving them for future use if possible is a worthy goal.
More damning in my opinion, though, was the fighters
Poe lost during that action, as they are needed to provide the bigger ships with anti-fighter cover.
I fully think what Poe did was correct in what could be called, and I'm paraphrasing, the cruel arithmetic of war. He traded few garbage scowl.. "bombers" and few fighters for an enemy capital ship and ensured their capital ship could escape. Yea true, Leia did order him not to, but she was plain wrong. Leia might be a great leader of people and even pretty good as fighter herself but I don't think she's much of a combat commander. Poe expended resources when he thought he could get the best bang for the buck, this is what good combat leaders do. Yes people died because of that decision and it could have gone horribly wrong but that's the cost of war and apparently Poe was the only one who could live with that.
We've been over this. Again and again and again.
If you look only at the small scale, the short-term, Poe's actions make sense. A bomber squadron and half a fighter squadron for a dreadnought? That's a fair trade. But in the bigger strategic picture, it makes no sense at all, because they have no other fighters, and the FO has more dreadnoughts, more capital ships, more resources to throw at them. Taking on the enemy's most powerful capital ships in a head to head conventional battle is not how an insurgency is supposed to fight, and Leia knows this, or she damn well should given how much of her life she's spent in insurgencies.
Poe's actions were tactically brilliant, and might even have been justifiable against orders in a conventional war between peer powers. But they were strategically idiotic for an insurgency.
Ok fine. Lets assume what Poe did was a huuge fuck up. It's done, can't undo it. You take it and try to get mileage out of it. Now this is something Leia and Holdo should both know. Morale is priceless in the situation they're in so you make the best out of grand displays of courage and sacrifice. Might point out that Holdo did not. Hey you can even leave Poe out of the limelight and praise the courage of those bomber crews who got their asses shot to pieces saving many times their numbers that is if you personally hate Poe for some reason. But you cannot undo it so if I was in Holdo's place, I would totally and without shame lie that the whole attack was "Just as planned" just to inspire people and make them believe we in fact have a plan.
Morale is important, and this is a unique and fairly interesting take on the debate. However, discipline is also important, and not encouraging officers to go off half-cocked and wipe out your dwindling forces needlessly. Do you want to set the precedent of rewarding costly acts of insubordinate bravado?
A lot of this can be attributed to really, really shitty writing but overall I can say the TL/DR version is.
No, and I would not follow that woman into combat under any circumstances.
I'm curious as to how you address the strategic failures of Poe's actions, and the need to maintain discipline in a force where it is already clearly eroding.
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