A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

Post Reply
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15078
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-25 05:30pm

I got this idea from the recent discussions of Grand Admiral Thrawn, and particularly going back and reading this post from the Rebels thread:
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-08-17 10:56pm
As is often the case with arguments in favor of a "strong" (ie, despotic) leader as the only way to achieve stability and security, I'll point out that Thrawn didn't actually make the Galaxy more secure. Given that he, you know, lost to the New Republic.

Not to turn it into a real-world political debate, but to me, its like people who say things like "Assad should be leader of Syria because otherwise it'll turn into a Jihadi hell hole." Well... Assad was the leader of Syria. And under his watch, the country fell apart. And the only reason he didn't lose completely was because Putin pulled his ass out of the fire. Its a similar deal with Thrawn. His losing to the supposedly chaotic and incompetent democracy of the New Republic does not inspire me to think that he is a stronger and more stable alternative. Arguably, all he did was make the NR weaker and less able to fight off the Yuzhan Vong. Imagine if, instead, Thrawn had thrown his genius and resources behind the New Republic... but that would have required him to embrace a larger view of the Galaxy than peace through absolute power.

Also, I'll point out that the New Republic did ultimately beat the YV, albeit at a terrible price. Of course, all this is moot to the current canon.
So to paraphrase a certain Christmas classic:

"Well, on Honoghr they say that Grand Admiral Thrawn's heart grew three sizes that day. And then the true meaning of Life Day came through, and Thrawn found the strength of ten Chiss, plus two!"

Basically, Thrawn has a change of heart for... reasons, and decides following Palpatine's death that despotism is not the key to stability and security after all. Rather than try to rebuild the Empire with himself as Emperor/warlord, he dedicates all his abilities and resources to strengthening the NR and rebuilding the Jedi Order. He will try to gain a position of prominence in the NR if they permit him to (after turning over some of his Imperial secrets in exchange for clemency), but his priority is to aid the formation of a strong New Republic and New Jedi Order. He's still ruthless when he feels that its necessary- but he now sees a Jedi Order serving a New Republic as the key to galactic stability, and is willing to make some compromises in terms of allowing basic civil liberties and representative government.

As we currently have no real information on Thrawn post-Endor in canon, this will be an explicitly Legends thread.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.

User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6662
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-08-25 08:16pm

It's been speculated that Thrawn would have sided with the New Republic in the Legends EU if they were the stronger at the time, and he had run into them first.

Anyway, on topic to the scenario:

After the initial clemency period, I could see him falling somewhere between Pter Thanas and Garm Bel Iblis. Someone who is put in a position of some power, but not enough to be any sort of political threat to anyone in the Senate, due to fears about his Imperial past. This might work in his favor, due to maybe having as free a leash as he did in the Empire while working the Unknown Regions. Otherwise, he might chafe under Senate leadership, as they order him to focus on some planet because it would help garner the Wookie vote or whatever as opposed to its strategic importance.

I see him and Borsk Feyla being political enemies and Thrawn having to deal with political sabotage against him at every possible opportunity, in a reverse of the reason Thrawn had political trouble in the Imperial Court as an alien. Here, it will be because he was an alien in the Imperial court. Mon Mothma will probably be wary of giving him any real opportunities, for fear of the New Republic becoming the Empire in everything but name due to his methods and practices.

Our central heroes, Leia, Han, and Luke will be interesting. Leia can work with him, as she is a politician and used to dealing with such people. Han will play nice through clenched teeth, due to their smuggler and smuggler catcher backgrounds. Luke and Thrawn would probably make a good team, though their philosophical discussions would be epic to witness. I could see Thrawn taking Luke or Leia as a protege in tactics.
Image

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15078
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-25 08:45pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-08-25 08:16pm
It's been speculated that Thrawn would have sided with the New Republic in the Legends EU if they were the stronger at the time, and he had run into them first.

Anyway, on topic to the scenario:

After the initial clemency period, I could see him falling somewhere between Pter Thanas and Garm Bel Iblis. Someone who is put in a position of some power, but not enough to be any sort of political threat to anyone in the Senate, due to fears about his Imperial past. This might work in his favor, due to maybe having as free a leash as he did in the Empire while working the Unknown Regions. Otherwise, he might chafe under Senate leadership, as they order him to focus on some planet because it would help garner the Wookie vote or whatever as opposed to its strategic importance.
Most likely, yes- although he's not a complete neophyte to political maneuvering, of course.

Of course, this all depends on him being able to strike a deal with the NR to begin with- but I expect that, say, given them the location and codes to the Tantis facility would be a good start. The Rebel Alliance and NR did embrace other Imperial defectors, after all, though I don't know if any were of such high rank. That said, I'd expect him to try to keep some cards up his sleeve as well, as contingencies.

He likely wouldn't be able to remain at anything like his current rank initially, unless he remained in command of his own faction as an outside ally to the NR (I'm not sure which he'd opt for if his goal were a strong NR). If he was in their command structure, he'd have to work his way up and prove his loyalty to the new regime, I'd imagine. At best, he'd be one of several senior admirals, possibly even reduced to a lower rank. Ackbar would certainly outrank him, and that might frustrate Thrawn greatly.

I wonder how well Ackbar would be able to work with him.
I see him and Borsk Feyla being political enemies and Thrawn having to deal with political sabotage against him at every possible opportunity, in a reverse of the reason Thrawn had political trouble in the Imperial Court as an alien. Here, it will be because he was an alien in the Imperial court. Mon Mothma will probably be wary of giving him any real opportunities, for fear of the New Republic becoming the Empire in everything but name due to his methods and practices.
Quite possibly.
Our central heroes, Leia, Han, and Luke will be interesting. Leia can work with him, as she is a politician and used to dealing with such people. Han will play nice through clenched teeth, due to their smuggler and smuggler catcher backgrounds. Luke and Thrawn would probably make a good team, though their philosophical discussions would be epic to witness. I could see Thrawn taking Luke or Leia as a protege in tactics.
Luke, most likely- he's more of a military commander and tactician than Leia. And yes, the philosophical discussions would be amazing.

Or maybe Wedge Antilles?
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.

User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27127
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Re: A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

Post by NecronLord » 2018-08-26 06:02am

The question is how much evidence of the Vong and the Reborn Emperor does he have? Sources have differed on both these questions, but in either case the Republic being prepared in advance changes literally everything. Particularly if he had knowledge of the Vong's technology base.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth

User avatar
RogueIce
_______
Posts: 13252
Joined: 2003-01-05 01:36am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

Post by RogueIce » 2018-08-28 08:22pm

Does he even have to present himself as a defector? Remember, in TTT the New Republic had no idea who he was. There's no reason he needs to show up as an Imperial Grand Admiral.

Perhaps as an Imperial (lesser) Admiral and a defector, if only to establish credibility for an advanced rank rather than trying to work his way up from New Republic Navy Ensign. Might even spin a story about his mistreatment, being banished to the Rim, etc. Gives him some plausible deniability from any complicity with Imperial war crimes - and why he didn't defect sooner, being out of the loop.

Only Mara Jade could burst that bubble, but then Thrawn was more or less responsible for her and Luke crossing paths to begin with. Since those circumstances wouldn't be repeating themselves, she'll probably stick with Karrde and never really join the New Republic or NJO, unless something happens to force (heh heh) them together again.
Image
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight

User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27127
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Re: A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

Post by NecronLord » 2018-08-29 02:00am

He could be outed by Grand Admiral Grant, and possibly others. And it would destroy his credibility if so.

It's also a lot harder to keep your identity secret as a defector than a menace from outer space. When someone asks for his payroll number or operating number and it comes up:

IDENTITY SUPPRESSED BY ORDER OF PALPATINE IMP.

Questions might be asked.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15078
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: A Legends What-If: Thrawn aids the New Republic.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-29 04:35pm

Quite. The smartest move would be to come clean, say he's defecting, and offer up Imperial secrets in exchange for a pardon. The NR took in other Imperial defectors, and Thrawn's isolation for the last part of the Empire's reign, and the secretiveness of his position, may mean he had less of a role in the more infamous Imperial atrocities.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.

Post Reply