And my take on this subject:FaxModem1 wrote: ↑2018-08-22 09:08amThis assumes that the Republic would be able to get all of these various Republic members to send their forces to work as a united front against the Vong, and not engage in various power grabs and internal fighting. Or decide to turtle up and only concern themselves with their own systems, letting their neighbors perish. Dooku may have united the Confederacy and made them into a rival power against the Republic under Sidious/Palpatine's orders, but they still have big beefs against the Republic for various reasons, as well as their own petty ambitions. A crisis like the Vong would be an ample opportunity to do so.NecronLord wrote: ↑2018-08-22 05:52amI'm not saying they invented war droids.
The pro-Thrawn argument is "The Corrupt Republic could never withstand the Vong."
Until Palpatine and his goons manipulated the decay of the Republic to their own benefit, the Geonosians were members of the Republic, so were the Colicoids and many other species best known for building war droids. The galaxy was never truly demilitarised, it simply had private armies of war droids that could have and would have been turned on the Vong if those internal divisions had not been exploited to brew into a war that was then manipulated by backstabbing to reduce the galaxy's war-droid manufacturers to penury and for a long time ban (!) assassin droids (SWEU - WEG various sources).
The New Republic also had to deal with political in-fighting due to Senate micromanagement of the war effort. This didn't happen in the Clone War, but such a scenario might happen with the Vong.
Without the Empire, it is just as likely that they do a Borsk Fey'yla and use this as a political opportunity for power. Or even worse, do a Game of Thrones and take out political rivals militarily instead of fighting the real threat. Palpatine may have lit the match, but the gasoline was already there and just waiting for some fool to ignite a spark. Say an ambitious leader of the Techno Union comes to power and wants to put their Battledroids to good use on the Genosians for whatever reason.
This also assumes that there isn't political gridlock in the Senate on what to do, as well as the Jedi being decisive as the Vong steamroll through outer planets. The Mandalorians did the same thing a few thousand years earlier, and it required a Jedi going rogue for the tide to turn, and that was with the Republic having a standing army at the time. They were still slapped around by the unknown conquerors due to lack of Jedi action until one of them(Revan) went rogue and led some Jedi volunteers to lead the Republic army.
The Jedi fulfilled a similar roll in the Clone Wars, as the Galactic Republic didn't seem to have experienced commanders, and overly relied on the Jedi to act as their tactical and military leaders.
Or they make a play for power and become conquerors of a Galactic sector if they want to. See above.Argument: Palpatine overthrowing the Republic was necessary to defend against the Vong, because the Republic would never be able to do so.
Response: Palpatine gutted the militia forces of the Old Republic most able to fight the Vong, destroying much technical infrastructure and banning advancement (though he did not stick to this and developed various illegal war droids of course) in the field of military robotics.
While we know that the Empire developed many superweapons that would be of use against the Vong, their main superweapon, the Death Star, suffered many delays in construction as the Geonosians were in isolation and uninclined to help anyone (Legends) or exterminated (Canon).
Keeping the Geonosians as a thriving culture in the Republic would be a wiser course of action. A Great Weapon constructed by Republic Geonosians would probably be built faster and more securely, if the Republic could be convinced of the need for such a thing.
There was also the key fact that any form of fight would be led by the Jedi, who would be rather vulnerable to Vong weapons and unable to do anything force wise against them due to Cortosis and other bullshit. That was the big concern. The Jedi are the Republic's crutch, and the Vong are almost tailor designed to be able to sidestep the powers of the Jedi. The Jedi can also be terrible at reacting to external problems due to taking their sweet time with analysis to see what's going on. See the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil War. The Republic is always dependent on the Jedi to get their coals out of the fire. And when the Jedi are incapable of action, the galaxy burns for it.I will admit I have a hard time buying into the 'Vong would knock over the Old Republic' narrative, I am still very attached to the original vision of the Old Republic.
The Vong were so fearsome that they waited decades after their first spies arrived before mounting an attack. THere's no grounds for Thrawn's belief that the Republic could not defeat them. If anything an attack by biotech sadist jihadists would galvanize the Republic in a way it might well have benefited from while it crushed them.ANH Novel wrote: Another galaxy, another time.
The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that...it was the Republic.
Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, then appear those evil ones who have greed to match.
So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from outside.
Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.
The Republic did not have a strong central military. It did not need one'; there's no reason to think that without Palpatine's antics the likes of the Trade Federation (relatively honest people before decades of sith manipulations) would not rally to defend their bottom lines Republic long enough for the likes of Corellia, Kuat, Rendili and so on to be switched to wartime production and armies to be raised and Great Weapons to be built.
Thrawn's love of militarism gave him a distorted idea of the supposed weakness of the Old Republic. Of course, he was banished by the Chiss for crimes of aggression so persuading his own people to join the Republic isn't on.
This doesn't address the concern that Thrawn, Palpatine, or anyone else who knew about them could have simply warned the Republic, and given them time to get ready properly. But Palpatine wanted to be in charge, and burned the galaxy to do so.
The Republic was flawed, of course. Failing, arguably, by Phantom Menace, and certainly by Attack of the Clones, though much of that was due to Sith machinations. And yet, it has the single best track record of creating a relatively peaceful, stable galactic civilization of any civilization across a time span of millennia- far better than that of the Empire. And it did it while maintaining a diverse society and a government that was at least semi-democratic.The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2018-08-22 01:44pmAgain: there is only one government in Star Wars canon which managed to achieve a prolonged period of relatively stable and peaceful galactic government- the Old Republic, with the Jedi Order as its protectors. They had a thousand year run before the films, before Palpatine destroyed it all and plunged the galaxy into a new dark age. The New Republic's failures are due to them trying to rebuild a functioning society out of the debris after Palpatine obliterated a millennium of peace.
So, what sort of reforms would have enabled the Old Republic to survive, presuming that Palpatine and Maul die in a freak accident sometime around Phantom Menace? Alternately, if Palpatine is still alive, what actions would be necessary to counteract his influence successfully and maintain the Republic, presuming it is even possible?