Tarkin was in charge

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Galvatron
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Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-22 11:04pm

The latest round of Darth Vader comics have finally explained how and why he was DEFINITELY subordinate to Tarkin in ANH (and even before then).


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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-23 06:09pm

...Okay? I mean, this is nice and all, but it doesn't tell us much of anything. A little explanation in spoiler-text might help for those either without access to said comics, means to purchase them, or inclination to read them?
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-23 06:49pm

Okay.

Up to now, it's been rationalized that "Vader was just being politely deferential" or "Tarkin is only in charge on the Death Star" by some fans for years. It was vague in the old EU as well, but the new comics make it explicitly clear when the Emperor himself puts Vader in his place and straight up tells him in no uncertain terms that Tarkin is his boss. Here's a snippet...

Image

There's no indication that this was meant to be a temporary arrangement either.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-23 07:13pm

I doubt it would have been permanent, if only because Palpatine playing his subordinates off each other is nothing new.

But I do think a lot of people mistakenly assume that Number 2. in the Sith hierarchy is the same as Number 2. in the Imperial hierarchy.
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-23 07:34pm

Permanent or not, it seems to have lasted for a good many years until Tarkin's ultimate demise. As I theorized before, Vader served whomever the Emperor told him to serve. First it was Tarkin, then it was Tagge.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-23 07:58pm

Hmm, I can't remember. Was the Empire actually building the Death Star around Geonosis, or did they discover the prototype there? I can't quite recall...

Tagge met a rather sticky end as far as that went, if I recall the second-to-last Vader TPB correctly.
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-23 08:48pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-23 07:58pm
Hmm, I can't remember. Was the Empire actually building the Death Star around Geonosis, or did they discover the prototype there? I can't quite recall...
I kinda lost track myself. Even the Wookieepedia is murky, but it seems that the Republic actually began its construction over Geonosis prior to the end of the Clone Wars.
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-23 07:58pm
Tagge met a rather sticky end as far as that went, if I recall the second-to-last Vader TPB correctly.
He done fucked up.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Gandalf » 2018-07-23 09:46pm

Awesome. I love how it reinforces the idea that Vader is really a pathetic figure. He was once a powerful Jedi, but burned it all to the ground and became some guy in an iron lung. Even once ESB rolls around, he's not so much respected as he is just feared.
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-23 10:06pm

Not only that, but in a pretty major twist ending it's heavily implied that...
Spoiler
...Vader betrayed the Empire by intentionally leaking to Erso that the Death Star was to become a planet-killing superweapon, thus setting into motion the events of Rogue One.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Gandalf » 2018-07-23 10:33pm

Spoiler
That's ridiculous. Why on Earth would he do that, unless his plan was to lure out the rebels so he could shoot them down and play hero?
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-23 10:43pm

Because of this...
Spoiler
Image

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Gandalf » 2018-07-24 02:00am

To quote Hermes Comrad; "that just raises further questions!"
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That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-24 02:09am

The rest of the issue makes it clearer, but I doubt anyone would want me to post every page.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Patroklos » 2018-07-24 02:16am

Gandalf wrote:
2018-07-23 09:46pm
Awesome. I love how it reinforces the idea that Vader is really a pathetic figure. He was once a powerful Jedi, but burned it all to the ground and became some guy in an iron lung. Even once ESB rolls around, he's not so much respected as he is just feared.
Hardly. Anakin was known but was way down on the list of notables in the Jedi order, behind at least all of the random Jedi masters we see in the films, and who knows how many random Jedi masters in the other media.

In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.

What I like about this situation is it that in rienforces that that Empire was a more complicated entity politically, and it supplies a rich environment for intrigue and machinations when someone we know like Vader still has to walk delicately. It implies a diverse field of other villains in the world.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-24 04:05am

Patroklos wrote:
2018-07-24 02:16am
In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.
Even long before TESB, the Emperor gathered an assembly of high-ranking Imperial officers and then this happened...

Image

However, this occured before he handed Vader's leash over to Tarkin. The point remains the same though: the Emperor giveth and he taketh away, as it suits him.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Tiriol » 2018-07-24 06:59am

Galvatron wrote:
2018-07-24 02:09am
The rest of the issue makes it clearer, but I doubt anyone would want me to post every page.
Can you summarize? Because what Vader said to Tarkin (which apparently gave the old Grand Moff a pause, which is by itself an achievement) seems more like a "friendly" bickering in the good old Sith/Imperial manner. It both reminded Tarkin that Vader can be dangerous and have teeth even when he is not, metaphorically speaking, baring them, and reminded audience that Vader can surprise people (he managed to do so to the Emperor in his own series, after all, several times in fact).

But it would be out of character for Disney-era Vader to be plotting against Tarkin directly and in such a disastrous manner. I need more proof of that.
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-24 07:24am

Spoiler
He wasn't plotting against Tarkin so much as he was trying to prevent/delay/sabotage/undermine the construction of the Death Star by getting Galen Erso to abandon the project. I doubt very much that he intended for it to result in such a costly defeat for the Empire, however.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Vympel » 2018-07-24 08:09am

Chronologically, where does this fit in with the latest issue of Darth Vader proper, where Vader tasks Tarkin with 'hunting' him?
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-24 08:18am

Sometime afterward since Vader wasn't yet Tarkin's lackey at the time of the hunt.

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by AniThyng » 2018-07-25 11:53am

Galvatron wrote:
2018-07-24 04:05am
Patroklos wrote:
2018-07-24 02:16am
In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.
Even long before TESB, the Emperor gathered an assembly of high-ranking Imperial officers and then this happened...

Image

However, this occured before he handed Vader's leash over to Tarkin. The point remains the same though: the Emperor giveth and he taketh away, as it suits him.
Which series was this from again?
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-25 12:05pm

AniThyng wrote:
2018-07-25 11:53am
Galvatron wrote:
2018-07-24 04:05am
Patroklos wrote:
2018-07-24 02:16am
In Empire its much the same, but he has the distinction of being the personal enforcer of the Emperor and holding his favor. In a monarchy like the Empire, that distinction is more important than formal titles in most cases.
Even long before TESB, the Emperor gathered an assembly of high-ranking Imperial officers and then this happened...

Image

However, this occured before he handed Vader's leash over to Tarkin. The point remains the same though: the Emperor giveth and he taketh away, as it suits him.
Which series was this from again?
"Darth Vader" by Marvel.
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-25 10:57pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-25 12:05pm
"Darth Vader" by Marvel.
Do you have access to said comics, means to purchase them or inclination to read them yet? :)

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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-26 04:26pm

Galvatron wrote:
2018-07-25 10:57pm
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-25 12:05pm
"Darth Vader" by Marvel.
Do you have access to said comics, means to purchase them or inclination to read them yet? :)
Nah, I found some TPB's awhile ago at the bookstore and flipped through them, but I don't have access etcetera to the latest issues until they get compiled in TPB. Last one I saw had a bunch of leftover Jedi and Vader making his classic ANH lightsaber, I think.
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-08-01 07:29pm

The new Marvel Disney Comics are going down the same path a lot of the old Bantam/Dark Horse EU did.

Intrigue for the sake of intrigue and quadruple/triple/double crossing as a routine matter. If things worked that way, then the Empire would never have lasted 20~ years.

Both Vader and Tarkin should have mutual respect for each other; and in fact, their friendship should be what keeps the Empire together -- each of them counterbalances the other's excesses; which explains why the Empire only lasted a few more years post ANH, but lasted 20 years prior to ANH.

Basically, if Tarkin had been alive post ANH, he'd have kept Vader's head "in the game", by keeping him from becoming too obsessed with Luke.
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Re: Tarkin was in charge

Post by Galvatron » 2018-08-01 09:17pm

If anything, the relationship between Vader and Tarkin is friendlier than it was in the old EU. Vader hates the Death Star, not Tarkin. That doesn't mean they never bicker, though.
MKSheppard wrote:
2018-08-01 07:29pm
Both Vader and Tarkin should have mutual respect for each other; and in fact, their friendship should be what keeps the Empire together -- each of them counterbalances the other's excesses; which explains why the Empire only lasted a few more years post ANH, but lasted 20 years prior to ANH.

Basically, if Tarkin had been alive post ANH, he'd have kept Vader's head "in the game", by keeping him from becoming too obsessed with Luke.
Agreed, but I think that's still true.


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